The Universe made itself!

[DC85]

In another topic this was said.

The only argument against it that an atheist would come up with is something like this:
"I went back in time and did it. No seriously! I'm going to invent a time machine and use it to travel back untold millions of years, at which point I will then sneeze into the primordial soup! YOU ALL EVOLVED FROM MY COLD!!"

This got me thinking again about how the Universe could have created itself. It got me thinking about articles I have read on the subject of worm holes....

http://www.physlib.com/worm_holes.html

A lot of this is speculation so of course this cannot be accepted as fact... It seems to me however the universe could have created itself if this is true... What do you think?

 

[Natural Submission]

From the quantum physics perspective it is a known FACT that the entire Universe is only an illusion. Everything we know is illusion and the ONLY thing real is the "Observer" (e.g. God) and we exist "within" this Observer. The Observer created everything that exists and It can change or destroy everything that exists in an instant if It wishes. Everything submits to this Force whether in willingly or unwillingly.

 

[linwood]

From the quantum physics perspective it is a known FACT that the entire Universe is only an illusion.

There are no "known facts" in quantum physics.

A lot of this is speculation so of course this cannot be accepted as fact... It seems to me however the universe could have created itself if this is true... What do you think?

I don`t believe in wormholes.
I think the creation of the universe depends on what you consider the universe to be.
I think it has always been here in one form or another, energy converting, matter changing, for eternity.

 

[painted wolf]

I don't know about the 'quantum physics' you've been studying but it says no such thing. :tsk:

Quantum physics is about the relationship/unity of energy and matter.

wa:do

 

[Pah]

You know how a birthday party clown creates ballon animals for the kids? One theory of universe creation is just like that - well almost. The clown takes a ballon and makes (by twisting) shorter ballons that become legs and snout and tail. Just consider the original ballon doesn't get shortened, that the new legs develop as a natural occurance from the original. You'd have bumps of ballons sprouting up all over and each ballon would be equivalent to the original. Those new ballons would have the same property - an ability to grown still newer ballons. Okay now, you have a picture of reproducing ballons. It's called Inflation Theory when you apply that picture to the universe, one universe giving birth to another and there's not telling where in that infaltionary creation our particular iniverse is located. In fact we'd not even be able to see the others.

Another theory is called M-Theory and that has to do with strings as the basic building block of material and energy. Strings are present outside our universe in several "sheets" called membranes (or branes). And these mebranes "float" around and sometimes run into each other. When that collision occurs, a Big Bang happens and a universe is born - the kind we know with all the physics and chemistry we know. But there are also other universes (the collision of branes is not a singularity) and perhaps with differing physical laws and perhaps a parallel to ours. We have a universe enthrolled with a God for example, but others might not.

So, two theories, each with credible evidence (not locked in scietific law as yet) that explain a natural creation of our universe. What need do we have of a God as creator or designer?

 

[Valjean]

NaturalSubmission makes a good point. A creature whose perception is confined to 3 dimensions cannot possibly experience the reality of a multi-dimensional universe. We are trying to describe the wide world from shadows on cavern walls.

Our brains take identical electrochemical impulses from our various sense organs and construct an abstract simulacrum of a "world." Our reality is a "life simulation" -- entirely unreal but enabling us to navigate the unseen currents of Objective Reality.

 

[Pah]

NaturalSubmission makes a good point. A creature whose perception is confined to 3 dimensions cannot possibly experience the reality of a multi-dimensional universe. We are trying to describe the wide world from shadows on cavern walls.

Our brains take identical electrochemical impulses from our various sense organs and construct an abstract simulacrum of a "world." Our reality is a "life simulation" -- entirely unreal but enabling us to navigate the unseen currents of Objective Reality.

Did I mention that string theory takes place in multiple dimensions - ten, I believe, if you count time.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

From the quantum physics perspective it is a known FACT that the entire Universe is only an illusion.

I think you may have mistaken alchemy, phrenology, or intelligent design with quantum physics. You might want to actually read some books that can provide you with a basic knowledge of quantum physics prior to telling the rest of the world what it says.

Everything we know is illusion and the ONLY thing real is the "Observer" (e.g. God) and we exist "within" this Observer. The Observer created everything that exists and It can change or destroy everything that exists in an instant if It wishes. Everything submits to this Force whether in willingly or unwillingly.

Existentialism is actually what goes on in YOUR mind - not the mind of the observer (God). In other words, if you wish to espouse existentialism, you are really saying that God exists only in your mind (just like the computer you type on). You have actually gotten the idea of existentialism backwards, by projecting yourself into another beings consciousness.


Thanks,
TVOR

 

[Natural Submission]

I think you may have mistaken alchemy, phrenology, or intelligent design with quantum physics. You might want to actually read some books that can provide you with a basic knowledge of quantum physics prior to telling the rest of the world what it says.

i've read plenty of books. It is a well known fact everything we experience is illusion, however evidence for this has not been completely materialized. But it is known, context is key.

Existentialism is actually what goes on in YOUR mind - not the mind of the observer (God). In other words, if you wish to espouse existentialism, you are really saying that God exists only in your mind (just like the computer you type on). You have actually gotten the idea of existentialism backwards, by projecting yourself into another beings consciousness.

You are again putting words in my mouth, i never said this at all. the ONLY thing real is the "Observer" (e.g. God) and we exist "within" this Observer Clearly i am saying "we" don't exist at all, "we" are not "real" ONLY the observer is real. Nothing exists in "my" mind, for only God alone exists, "i" do not, "we" do not.

 

[Pah]

i've read plenty of books. It is a well known fact everything we experience is illusion, however evidence for this has not been completely materialized. But it is known, context is key.

The first thing you should have read is that quantum physics is a sience of the quite small and it was, until string theory, at odds with that vastness of the universe. What you have done is tried to take the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics and project it into a philosophy of God. It doesn't fit.

You are again putting words in my mouth, i never said this at all. the ONLY thing real is the "Observer" (e.g. God) and we exist "within" this Observer Clearly i am saying "we" don't exist at all, "we" are not "real" ONLY the observer is real. Nothing exists in "my" mind, for only God alone exists, "i" do not, "we" do not.

Relativity says that the observer is key to physical measurement - that drowns your "we don't exist", both the observer and the observed are real. However, you have a terrible time, trying to prove God exists. It has not been done with the greast minds throughout history. That doesn't say it can't be done but is extremely unlikely that anyone on this board will do so.

Your application of physical law leaves a lot of holes

 

[Natural Submission]

The first thing you should have read is that quantum physics is a sience of the quite small and it was, until string theory, at odds with that vastness of the universe. What you have done is tried to take the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics and project it into a philosophy of God. It doesn't fit.

It fits perfectly, quantum physics proves God's existance and proves there are limitless possibilities.

Relativity says that the observer is key to physical measurement - that drowns your "we don't exist", both the observer and the observed are real. However, you have a terrible time, trying to prove God exists. It has not been done with the greast minds throughout history. That doesn't say it can't be done but is extremely unlikely that anyone on this board will do so.

This is false. Quantum physics is showing us that "we" are not real and only the Observer is real. Therefore the only thing that exists is the Observer. We are illusionary "thoughts" within the Observers "Mind"

 

[The Voice of Reason]

i've read plenty of books. It is a well known fact everything we experience is illusion, however evidence for this has not been completely materialized. But it is known, context is key.

It's good to hear that you read many books. It is important that one digest what one is reading.

You are again putting words in my mouth, i never said this at all. the ONLY thing real is the "Observer" (e.g. God) and we exist "within" this Observer Clearly i am saying "we" don't exist at all, "we" are not "real" ONLY the observer is real. Nothing exists in "my" mind, for only God alone exists, "i" do not, "we" do not.

Let's just pretend that I never mentioned existentialism. The concept is clearly not being comprehended.

After reading your response in post #11, you might be better off to just put the book down, before any more damage is done.

I'd like to ask a variant of the title to your thread - Did God make Himself?

Your application of physical law leaves a lot of holes

Like Swiss cheese.


TVOR

 

[Pah]

It fits perfectly, quantum physics proves God's existance and proves there are limitless possibilities.

Then please show us God in the formulas and show us the one that will lead to infinity (hint: it will be one in which there is a division by zero)

This is false. Quantum physics is showing us that "we" are not real and only the Observer is real. Therefore the only thing that exists is the Observer. We are illusionary "thoughts" within the Observers "Mind"

Just what "tenet" of quantum mechanics says that the observed is not real. You are going to have tough time proving it and we will need a proof instead of your assetion.


Your conception of the universe depends on both answers

 

[Saw11_2000]

Is it scientifically possible for the universe to just create itself? I thought everything had to have a constant beginning.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Is it scientifically possible for the universe to just create itself? I thought everything had to have a constant beginning.

Well, I read the book Quantum Mechanics for Highly Advanced Minds, and it said that bubblegum was the only thing that was real in the entire universe. The formula that proves it takes a little manipulation, as it starts out explaining the structure of the outer shell of a Lawrencium atom, but after a couple of tries, I was able to work out the necessary computations.


TVOR

PS - At least, that's what I think it said.

 

[Saw11_2000]

You cleared it all up for me.

 

[linwood]

A creature whose perception is confined to 3 dimensions cannot possibly experience the reality of a multi-dimensional universe. We are trying to describe the wide world from shadows on cavern walls.

First one must provide evidence that a multi-dimensional universe is plausable let alone possible.
I`ve seen no evidence to suggest it is.

It fits perfectly, quantum physics proves God's existance and proves there are limitless possibilities.

Quantum Physics doesn`t even "prove" the phenomena it claims to evidence.

This is false.Quantum physics is showing us that "we" are not real and only the Observer is real.

No, it doesn`t.
Pahs statement that physical measurement cannot possibly be false.
One most have an observer to measure anything.
One must have something to measure.
One must have space between them and occupied by them.
They are both necessary, it cannot be false.

 

[linwood]

Is it scientifically possible for the universe to just create itself? I thought everything had to have a constant beginning.

Matter "creates itself all the time or I should say "re-creates itself".
However it`s my opinion that it doesn`t just come into existence, it must exist in some form previously.
This would mean that the Universe is infinite and timeless.

I don`t know of anything that had a constant beginning if I understand what you mean by constant.

 

[Natural Submission]

It's good to hear that you read many books. It is important that one digest what one is reading.


Let's just pretend that I never mentioned existentialism. The concept is clearly not being comprehended.

After reading your response in post #11, you might be better off to just put the book down, before any more damage is done.

I'd like to ask a variant of the title to your thread - Did God make Himself?



Like Swiss cheese.


TVOR

If you can, read the book "The Holographic Universe", it gets into a lot of detail about what i'm saying but it is much more clear obviously. The whole concept is a new one, but it is accurate and scientific.

 

[Natural Submission]

Then please show us God in the formulas and show us the one that will lead to infinity (hint: it will be one in which there is a division by zero)



Just what "tenet" of quantum mechanics says that the observed is not real. You are going to have tough time proving it and we will need a proof instead of your assetion.


Your conception of the universe depends on both answers

God is everywhere. God is everything that exists.