The True Church

[lostwanderingsoul]

Concerning item #8 Acts 4:12 simply says that there is no other name by which men may be saved. It does not say people go to Heaven. Actually the Bible says that no man has gone to Heaven. There is noverse that says anything about people going to Heaven. If you can find one, please quote it here.

 

[rrosskopf]

I've got to disagree with you on this point. While Jesus is obviously not the same individual as His own Father, He most definitely is "God." I believe that to say otherwise is misleading. This is actually made more clear in the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price than it is in the Bible. Jesus Christ was not just "a God," but -- according to our scriptures, "God." After all, 2 Nephi 31:21 states quite clearly: "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end."

This is just tripping over definitions. Most people would define God as a single entity, not a quorum. To say that God is comprised of three individuals is to say that none are gods in and of themselves. In modern usage, "God" is used in place of a name, connoting a specific if unspecified being, but context would suggest that anciently, it was more of a type; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost being all the same type of God.

 

[sojourner]

Ha, but not when it comes to religion.

???

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Many people use the word "God" to actually mean "the Father". Of course Jesus is not the Father but He is God along with the Father. "God" is made up of the Father and the Son. They are two separate beings but both are God. When you talk about the Father using the name God it causes confusion.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Rules is a very subjective topic not really covered in the NT. They refer to rules as man made, so commands given by Christ would not qualify as rules.

I find your delineation between rules and commands to be a bit specious if not circular. In any event, Jesus narrowed down his rules/commands to just two: Love God. Love everyone else. Everything else would be a "rule" by your definition but is just superfluous by mine. When your decisions about others are guided purely by love, you just don't need anything else. For man, this is impossible. With God, all things are possible.

About baptism being required from the subsequent conversation... You can't take what's being said to one person or even a group of persons and infer that everyone has to follow the same path. Doing so devolves baptism into a work rather than an appeal to God for a clean heart. Don't limit the Spirit. Nothing is required, but to love everyone.

 

[Katzpur]

I find your delineation between rules and commands to be a bit specious if not circular. In any event, Jesus narrowed down his rules/commands to just two: Love God. Love everyone else. Everything else would be a "rule" by your definition but is just superfluous by mine. When your decisions about others are guided purely by love, you just don't need anything else. For man, this is impossible. With God, all things are possible.

About baptism being required from the subsequent conversation... You can't take what's being said to one person or even a group of persons and infer that everyone has to follow the same path. Doing so devolves baptism into a work rather than an appeal to God for a clean heart. Don't limit the Spirit. Nothing is required, but to love everyone.

OMG! Look who's back! It's been what? About a hundred years? It's so good to see you!

 

[Scuba Pete]

OMG! Look who's back! It's been what? About a hundred years? It's so good to see you!

Well, I posted just a couple of weeks ago! Lots of travel and diving. I just got back from Curacao this past Sunday. It's good to be missed, and I certainly missed you as well.

BOT: The church was always meant to be inclusive. The lowest of the low during NT times were able to be a part. Tax collectors, sinners and even Republicans were invited to be a part of the church. There were lots of churches too, but no denominations. No one church suggested it was the uber church either. Flexibility was a huge part in the NT church as well. When widows needed to be fed, the role of Deacon was invented. Today, the various 'levels' are seen as some type of progression rather than simply needs that had to be met. The church members were trying to outdo each other in love, not in holiness or understanding. I haven't been to a church in a long time that fit that description. As always, the first rule of Scuba Diving applies here: don't hold your breath.

 

[moorea944]

Marks of the True Church

1. Believes that Jesus Christ is God. John 1:1

2. Has no Head of the church but Jesus. Ephesians 5:23

3. Teaches truth not Denominationalism. Mark 7:7-8

4. Teaches that The Bible is the True Word of God, and is without error. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

5. Teaches that Authority comes from the word of God not leaders in the Church. 1 Thessalonians 4:2, Acts 2:42

6. Teaches Believers Baptism. Mark 16:16

7. Teaches that Repentance and Baptism is for the Forgiveness of Sins and the way to receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-4

8. Teaches that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Acts 4:12

9. Teaches that Sinners will go to Hell. Revelation 21:8, 20:11-15

10. Takes care of the Poor. James 1:27

11. And does the Great Commission. Matthew 28:18-20

No 1. Shouldnt you say that Jesus is not God, but the son of God? Sounds better, doesnt it.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

No 1. Shouldnt you say that Jesus is not God, but the son of God? Sounds better, doesnt it.

Number 1 is correct. Jesus is God.. The Bible says so......

 

[metis]

Number 1 is correct. Jesus is God.. The Bible says so......

If Jesus is God, then please explain this verse:

Acts 7:[55] "But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. [56] the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

 

[Mr. Beebe]

If Jesus is God, then please explain this verse:

Acts 7:[55] "But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. [56] the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.

I will allow the Lord God to explain it:

"For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your
Savior." Isaiah 43:3

Who is the Holy One of Israel? Is it Not Jesus?

Who is the Savior? Is it not Jesus?

 

[metis]

I will allow the Lord God to explain it:

"For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your
Savior." Isaiah 43:3

Who is the Holy One of Israel? Is it Not Jesus?

Who is the Savior? Is it not Jesus?

Will you please respond to what I posted last? IOW, how can Jesus sit on God's right hand if Jesus is God?

 

[Mr. Beebe]

Will you please respond to what I posted last? IOW, how can Jesus sit on God's right hand if Jesus is God?

Is Isaiah 43:3 wrong? Surely you can see it points to Jesus as God. Jesus forgave sin,,,, Only God can forgive the sins of men.

I think the problem is, we humans have a finite mind,, and we are trying to understand an infinite God. 3 Distinct Persons in the Godhead. God the Father, Jesus,, Holy Spirit. All three are Divine Eternal Beings. Sitting at God's right hand doesn't mean Jesus is just sitting next to His Father doing nothing. Jesus is Both our Sacrifice & High Priest. He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary making intercession on behalf of sinners.

Jesus is fully God. The Divinity of Jesus was hidden in the garb of humanity. If it wasn't,,,nobody would be able to look upon Jesus and live.

 

[metis]

Is Isaiah 43:3 wrong? Surely you can see it points to Jesus as God. Jesus forgave sin,,,, Only God can forgive the sins of men.

I think the problem is, we humans have a finite mind,, and we are trying to understand an infinite God. 3 Distinct Persons in the Godhead. God the Father, Jesus,, Holy Spirit. All three are Divine Eternal Beings. Sitting at God's right hand doesn't mean Jesus is just sitting next to His Father doing nothing. Jesus is Both our Sacrifice & High Priest. He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary making intercession on behalf of sinners.

Jesus is fully God. The Divinity of Jesus was hidden in the garb of humanity. If it wasn't,,,nobody would be able to look upon Jesus and live.

Again, you refuse to deal with what is asked, which indicates that you simply cannot answer it. So, instead of coming back with something else, why not just admit you can't answer it?

 

[moorea944]

Number 1 is correct. Jesus is God.. The Bible says so......

Why would you want to say that Jesus is God? So the father is the son and the son is the father? Wow.....

 

[moorea944]

Is Isaiah 43:3 wrong? Surely you can see it points to Jesus as God. Jesus forgave sin,,,, Only God can forgive the sins of men.

I think the problem is, we humans have a finite mind,, and we are trying to understand an infinite God. 3 Distinct Persons in the Godhead. God the Father, Jesus,, Holy Spirit. All three are Divine Eternal Beings. Sitting at God's right hand doesn't mean Jesus is just sitting next to His Father doing nothing. Jesus is Both our Sacrifice & High Priest. He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary making intercession on behalf of sinners.

Jesus is fully God. The Divinity of Jesus was hidden in the garb of humanity. If it wasn't,,,nobody would be able to look upon Jesus and live.

Your completely missing the point here. Isaiah 43 is about God, not Jesus. You have to remember that Jesus did not pre-exist. Only God can forgive sins? God gave that authority to Jesus AND the angel with Moses in the wilderness. IT's sad what people really think about our Creator and our Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing to do with scripture. Making Jesus God the father and creator, totally degrades our Heavenly Father!!!

 

[atpollard]

Your completely missing the point here. Isaiah 43 is about God, not Jesus. You have to remember that Jesus did not pre-exist. Only God can forgive sins? God gave that authority to Jesus AND the angel with Moses in the wilderness. IT's sad what people really think about our Creator and our Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing to do with scripture. Making Jesus God the father and creator, totally degrades our Heavenly Father!!!

Except to the followers of all of those churches that embrace the mystery revealed in Scripture and best explained by the the Doctrine of the Trinity.
For us, it reveals a God more glorious than we had at first suspected.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

Making Jesus God the father and creator, totally degrades our Heavenly Father!!!

Hey bud,, while you are wrongly dividing the word of God,,,,,,,,,,,Nobody said Jesus was God the Father,, except YOU! Jesus " did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,, so,, why are your pants in a bunch? See Philippians 2:5


Are you one of those who claim Jesus is a creation? Do you worship the creation of God? Are you into idolatry? Because if you desire to be wrong and claim Jesus a created sinner,,,,then you also an Idolater. So,, either Jesus is fully God, or you must admit that you are into idolatry. Have it your way.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

"I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior." Isaiah 43:3 Anybody that twists that scripture to mean Jesus is NOT God,, will not be in the Kingdom,, Because it takes someone that is dishonest to twist that scripture... But, many folks hate Jesus,, and desire to reduce him to a mere created sinner.

 

[moorea944]

Hey bud,, while you are wrongly dividing the word of God,,,,,,,,,,,Nobody said Jesus was God the Father,, except YOU! Jesus " did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,, so,, why are your pants in a bunch? See Philippians 2:5


Are you one of those who claim Jesus is a creation? Do you worship the creation of God? Are you into idolatry? Because if you desire to be wrong and claim Jesus a created sinner,,,,then you also an Idolater. So,, either Jesus is fully God, or you must admit that you are into idolatry. Have it your way.

[QUTOE] Hey bud,, while you are wrongly dividing the word of God,,,,,,,,,,,Nobody said Jesus was God the Father,, except YOU! [/QUOTE]
Wrong. Re-read some of the posts. People believe that Jesus is actually Yahweh. I dont.

Jesus " did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,, so,, why are your pants in a bunch? See Philippians 2:5

If "in the form of God" means the very nature of God, then Christ could not have been "Very God" while on earth, as trinitarians assert, since this is what he is said to have sacrificed and left behind in coming to the earth.

How was Christ in the form of God? He had the semblance and demeanour of the Father mentally and morally. His character was the express image of his Father's person. (Heb. 1:3).

The Jews thought Jesus was telling them he was equal, because they didnt understand him. Now read the next verse.... "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

Because if you desire to be wrong and claim Jesus a created sinner,,,,then you also an Idolater

Wow, I never said that Jesus was created a sinner. I said he was born, made by his father, from the seed of David. (Luke 1, 2 Sam 7, Phil 2v7) He had the same nature as us. He had to be. (Heb 2). He had to "overcome", he had to "conquer" sin. Can a God do that? Can a God struggle, have a hard time with something, be tempted? Come on guys!!!! One of the reasons that God wanted him to be born of a woman was to have him the same nature as us! Jesus wasnt born perfect, he was made perfect through the things that he did through his life. What he did was to live a "perfect" life.