The Trinity

[Katzpur]

it is very nice to observe this mutual love in. The sad thing for me is that the debate sounds more like two politicians trying to agree a form of words to squeeze through some sort of diplomatic announcement.

Merlin,

I can't speak for Scott, only for myself. Personally, I don't see it the way you do. I have said nothing that I do not personally believe, nor have I misrepresented the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the sake of political correctness. Obviously, Scott and I don't see eye to eye on the nature of God or on the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. But we are making a sincere attempt to actually come to an understanding of the points on which we do agree.

Several years back, a book was published, entitled, How Wide the Divide? It was a dialogue between an LDS scholar and an evangelical scholar on four topics: (1) Scripture, (2) God and Deification, (3) Christ and the Trinity, and (4) Salvation. While it was described by some as "a landmark book," others accused the authors of simply trying to appease one another for the sake of appearances and were particularly critical of the LDS scholar because he supposedly tried to make LDS doctrines appear to be "more Christian."

 

[Merlin]

Merlin,

he supposedly tried to make LDS doctrines appear to be "more Christian."

it is the first time I have heard anybody say that Mormon doctrines are not Christian? Is it any common charge against you

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Trinity is not a Christian Concept, just the word is. God, Christ and the Holy Spirit or the Trinity of God is a living reality. All religions and Spiritual Paths in truth lead to God, Christ and Holy Spirit realization! This is what Buddha, Mohammed, Lao Tse, Krishna, Moses, Abraham, Rama, Confucius, Zoroaster and all the Ascended Masters are all striving for on a Cosmic Level as well!

For all religions and all spiritual paths lead to God, lead to the Christ and the lead to the Holy Spirit! If you prefer the words Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva that is fine as well. Or the Kahunas of Hawaii calls the Trinity Ku, Kane and Kanola! God is a Triune being, just as we on Earth are a triune being! Our purpose is to stop seeing the illusion of separation and trinitize ourselves.

See yourself as the Christ along with seeing others as the Christ! Demonstrate and practice the presence of the Christ on all levels. Give the Christ at the level of initiation you are and want to achieve! For each initiation is a higher level of Christ Realization! Respond to all your spiritual tests and lessons as the Christ! At times mistakes will occur and don’t make a big deal about this. Just learn the golden nugget of wisdom and learn the lessons, and making a specific spiritual vow to not let that mistake happen again, and plow forward in self forgiveness and unconditional self love! Mistakes are positive not negative.

 

[Merlin]

Merlin,

I can't speak for Scott, only for myself. Personally, I don't see it the way you do. I have said nothing that I do not personally believe, nor have I misrepresented the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the sake of political correctness. Obviously, Scott and I don't see eye to eye on the nature of God or on the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. But we are making a sincere attempt to actually come to an understanding of the points on which we do agree.

Several years back, a book was published, entitled, How Wide the Divide? It was a dialogue between an LDS scholar and an evangelical scholar on four topics: (1) Scripture, (2) God and Deification, (3) Christ and the Trinity, and (4) Salvation. While it was described by some as "a landmark book," others accused the authors of simply trying to appease one another for the sake of appearances and were particularly critical of the LDS scholar because he supposedly tried to make LDS doctrines appear to be "more Christian."

My apologies. I was not suggesting you were trying to misrepresent anything or anybody. I was just making the generalised point that all of the hundreds of sub-sects within the Christian faith seem to a neutral observer to have almost no differences at all other than tiny semantic arguments (like the meaning of the Trinity). If I believe in it, and another person does not believe in it, and a third person half believes in it, so what?

If we all believe in the main teachings of the new Testament, why does it matter how over the years people have argued over the tiny nuances of various words?

That was the point, I was not trying to be critical of anybody.

 

[Katzpur]

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Well, so far, we've managed to demonstrate that the Latter-day Saints, just like the Catholics, believe that the Bible is the word of God.

I don't think Roman Catholics are creationists. Are LDS?

Our official doctrine is that our universe was created by Jesus Christ under the direction of His Father. As to the time frame or methodology, we have no official teaching. I don't believe there are very many Latter-day Saints who believe the world was created in seven 24-hour days and is merely 6000 years old. On the other hand, we most definitely believe that God was at the helm.

 

[Scott1]

I don't think Roman Catholics are creationists. Are LDS?

For the record.... we believe:
"In the beginning was the Word. . . and the Word was God. . . all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made." The New Testament reveals that God created everything by the eternal Word, his beloved Son. In him "all things were created, in heaven and on earth.. . all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." The Church's faith likewise confesses the creative action of the Holy Spirit, the "giver of life", "the Creator Spirit" (Veni, Creator Spiritus), the "source of every good" (CCC #291).
How this was done in terms of chemistry, energy, etc etc. , and how long it took are questions for the realm of science, not theology.

 

[dan]

My apologies. I was not suggesting you were trying to misrepresent anything or anybody. I was just making the generalised point that all of the hundreds of sub-sects within the Christian faith seem to a neutral observer to have almost no differences at all other than tiny semantic arguments (like the meaning of the Trinity). If I believe in it, and another person does not believe in it, and a third person half believes in it, so what?

If we all believe in the main teachings of the new Testament, why does it matter how over the years people have argued over the tiny nuances of various words?

That was the point, I was not trying to be critical of anybody.

I feel the main problem lies with who has the correct ecclesiastical heirarchy and administration. Who has the authority?

 

[Katzpur]

it is the first time I have heard anybody say that Mormon doctrines are not Christian?

You're kidding!

Is it any common charge against you

Well, this following statements have been made on this website alone within the last month or so:

Let me tell you Latter-Day followers of Moron something: Don't try to come on this Website while I'm here and spout your anti-Christ junk, because I'll find and expose your blasphemous cultic crap wherever I find it.

I'm not gonna let you get away with calling yourself Christians. You're not worthy of it.

Mormonism is nothing but a modern-day form of Baal worship… It is just another daughter of The Mother of Abominations.

As I am writing this post, my Church's semi-annual General Conference is being held in downtown Salt Lake City. As Latter-day Saints walk from their cars along the sidewalks leading to the Conference Center, they are forced to listen to "real Christians," who converge upon the city twice a year from all parts of the United States, carrying placards denouncing our beliefs as non-Christian, and shouting that we're all going to burn in Hell. So yes, it's a rather common charge.

 

[Katzpur]

My apologies. I was not trying to be critical of anybody.

Hey, no problem. I just wanted to clarify, since I wasn't quite sure where you were coming from.

 

[Merlin]

You're kidding!



Well, this following statements have been made on this website alone within the last month or so:

Let me tell you Latter-Day followers of Moron something: Don't try to come on this Website while I'm here and spout your anti-Christ junk, because I'll find and expose your blasphemous cultic crap wherever I find it.
I'm not gonna let you get away with calling yourself Christians. You're not worthy of it.

Mormonism is nothing but a modern-day form of Baal worship… It is just another daughter of The Mother of Abominations.

As I am writing this post, my Church's semi-annual General Conference is being held in downtown Salt Lake City. As Latter-day Saints walk from their cars along the sidewalks leading to the Conference Center, they are forced to listen to "real Christians," who converge upon the city twice a year from all parts of the United States, carrying placards denouncing our beliefs as non-Christian, and shouting that we're all going to burn in Hell. So yes, it's a rather common charge.

I did not know that, I am really sorry for the people who are attacking you. They must be really sad people and so insecure in their own faith.

We should all pay for them. Please do not pray that they will be converted to your own sect, pray that they will be happy in their own beliefs and think nice thoughts about everybody.

 

[Scott1]

carrying placards denouncing our beliefs as non-Christian, and shouting that we're all going to burn in Hell.

.... I am at home, in Massachusetts... I promise.

 

[Katzpur]

I did not know that, I am really sorry for the people who are attacking you. They must be really sad people and so insecure in their own faith.

I agree. They are to be pitied, not hated. But it's hard.

We should all pray for them. Please do not pray that they will be converted to your own sect, pray that they will be happy in their own beliefs and think nice thoughts about everybody.

You're right, of course. I just can't bring myself to care about them one way or the other.

 

[Merlin]

[/i]
For the record.... we believe:
"In the beginning was the Word. . . and the Word was God. . . all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made." The New Testament reveals that God created everything by the eternal Word, his beloved Son. In him "all things were created, in heaven and on earth.. . all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." The Church's faith likewise confesses the creative action of the Holy Spirit, the "giver of life", "the Creator Spirit" (Veni, Creator Spiritus), the "source of every good" (CCC #291).
How this was done in terms of chemistry, energy, etc etc. , and how long it took are questions for the realm of science, not theology.

So the Roman Catholic do not have any view on whether Darwin was correct or not?

 

[Merlin]

I agree. They are to be pitied, not hated. But it's hard.


You're right, of course. I just can't bring myself to care about them one way or the other.

Who said following the teachings of Christ was easy? You should bring yourself to care about them, and to forgive them.

Sorry, I have fallen into preaching as well haven't I! But these sort of things, in my opinion, and far more important than minor semantic arguments.

 

[Scott1]

So the Roman Catholic do not have any view on whether Darwin was correct or not?

Again, that is a question of science... but to be clear, natural selection does not explain how matter came into existance, it only gives a theory about what happened AFTER.... evolution/darwinism etc are no problem to the Church as long as the information is presented as science and not expanded to start guessing about philosophy/theology.

 

[Katzpur]

Who said following the teachings of Christ was easy? You should bring yourself to care about them, and to forgive them.

I know you're right.

Sorry, I have fallen into preaching as well haven't I! But these sort of things, in my opinion, and far more important than minor semantic arguments.

No, you're fine. I guess I just don't see gross distortions of my beliefs by people who really don't know what they're talking about as being minor semantic arguments, and I really don't actually like being told I'm going to hell. I definitely do agree with you, though, that Christians of all denominations often lose sight of the most important thing Jesus ever said, "Love one another. By this shall men know that ye are my disciples."

 

[may]

JW believe that Jehovah God is the one true God , psalm 83;18 and Jesus christ is Gods only begotten first born son, and the holy spirit is Gods active Force, so we do not believe in the trinity ,we believe in what the bible teaches.

the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will

 

[Aqualung]

it is the first time I have heard anybody say that Mormon doctrines are not Christian? Is it any common charge against you

That's the most common thing I've heard. I've already been called "not a christian" and I've only been a member for a couple weeks.

 

[Aqualung]

As I am writing this post, my Church's semi-annual General Conference is being held in downtown Salt Lake City. As Latter-day Saints walk from their cars along the sidewalks leading to the Conference Center, they are forced to listen to "real Christians," who converge upon the city twice a year from all parts of the United States, carrying placards denouncing our beliefs as non-Christian, and shouting that we're all going to burn in Hell. So yes, it's a rather common charge.

People do that?! I didn't know mormon hate was so... organized. I thought I would a few individuals who call me a non-chrisitian every once in a while. I didn't know they organised themselves like that.

 

[Aqualung]

I did not know that, I am really sorry for the people who are attacking you. They must be really sad people and so insecure in their own faith.

We should all pay for them. Please do not pray that they will be converted to your own sect, pray that they will be happy in their own beliefs and think nice thoughts about everybody.

That is a really good thought merlin. you're a good guy.