The Trinity: Was Athanasius Scripturally Right?

[SLPCCC]

By the way, do the scriptures ever call the holy spirit Lord? Since it is possible to say that the Father and the Son are called God and Lord, how about the holy spirit? Any scripture to provide that says the holy spirit is called Lord? Just wondering...

I'm not up to the Holy Spirit yet. I'll post what I find as soon as I get them.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not up to the Holy Spirit yet. I'll post what I find as soon as I get them.

We haven't finished a discussion about the two before the holy spirit. So we're a long way off. But I was just wondering if you have a scripture that shows the holy spirit was Lord and God, equal to the other 2 persons of the trinity you believe are Lord and God.
P.S. As a heads-up, I was just reading something from a Wesleyan Covenant church website that says apparently based on opinion, that the holy spirit is Lord and God. You can google it. It also said that you can pray to the holy spirit. I don't believe that, talk about opinion. Speaking as if in God's name. It is conjecture, similar to conjecture in evolution, taking away glory from God. We haven't dissected or studied the scriptures in Psalms and Hebrews about the throne--"God's" throne because you jump around quickly. Those scriptures calling Jesus God in Hebrews referring to the Psalm are mistranslated and misunderstood by many. Yet people accept it as real because -- they don't do their own research. Satan's blinders over the eyes are strong. Remember how Pharaoh resisted the power of the Most High. So this may take a long time. I hope you're praying. It took diligence and research for me to understand that Jesus has a God. Jesus is not his own God. And the "one true God" is not a trinity. And there I shall stop for now. Have a good night.

 

[Muffled]

God can use any force he likes, including flood as he did in Noah's time.

I believe a flood does not have personal attributes.

 

[Muffled]

Do you imagine these three persons that you say God is in were always existing without beginning, as three persons?

No but I believe God who is in the three persons always exists.

 

[Muffled]

I agree,

The Personality of the Holy Spirit is determined because "he" does things that only a person can do. The Holy Spirit:

• speaks Acts 13:2
• has an "Ego" - I Acts 10:19-20
• thinks Acts 15:28
• shows emotions such as love Romans 15:30
• has intellect and teaches Hebrews 9:8, John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 2:13, Nehemiah 9:20
• has a will 1 Corinthians 12:11

I believe that is correct and those attributes are also present in the other two persons as well.

 

[YoursTrue]

No but I believe God who is in the three persons always exists.

A careful examination of the scriptures certainly does not bear that out. The One called the Father has no beginning. He is the Almighty God with no equal.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that is correct and those attributes are also present in the other two persons as well.

What did Jesus say the rocks or stones could do?

 

[YoursTrue]

No but I believe God who is in the three persons always exists.

Do you realize how that sounds? The God of Jesus, yes, has always existed. That God has no equal. He does not have two co-equals called God. It is a fabrication to manufacture a triune godhead of three equal persons. John 14:28. Jesus said he was going to HIS God. Nothing at all indicates he meant he was going to two other persons, one called the Father and the other called the holy spirit. The entire concept of the trinity is absurd.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that is correct and those attributes are also present in the other two persons as well.

Ancient languages were not the same as the types of words such as pronouns we use today. For the most part.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe a flood does not have personal attributes.

The flood came from God. His power caused that flood. If you don't believe that, then there's really little else to say.

 

[SLPCCC]

I used to go to church although not a Christian. I was a paid musician in a very well-to-do church in a large city. And I would be part of the service. I would wonder, why was Jesus hanging on the cross? No one ever discussed these things. There were church buffets, great music, but no real explanations about Christian living and concepts. Nothing about the wonderful things God has in store for faithful ones until I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses.

This is a strange quote from you because it sounds like you have been indoctrinated by the Jehovah's Witnesses. It seems like they have you believing in things that are not scriptural. If I'm right you won't be able to answer the following questions because you are now following a group of men who are not inspired but have you believing in what they teach and not the scriptures. I've been reading their journals. Can you answer the following?

• Where specifically does the bible say the Great Crowd will live on the earth?
• Why does the WT say that the great crowd will live on earth, when revelation 19:1 says that the great crowd is in heaven?
• Can you give one scripture where it says that in the last days, you should look to an organization for the truth?
• In acts 1:8, Jesus says you shall be witnesses of me [Jesus]. Why don’t you go door to door talking about Jesus?
• Can you find just one scripture in the new testament where Jesus told his disciples to tell everybody that God’s name is Jehovah?
• Can you quote just one scripture that specifically says that should you die before Armageddon that you would be resurrected during the thousand years?
• You say you don't believe in the Trinity because the bible doesn't say it; then where are the answers to all these questions?!
• Where in the bible does it say that Jesus is Michael?

If you cannot answer any of the above questions, you don't have an open mind anymore because you have been indoctrinated. You really should look into this. You don't sound reasonable because you were taught and indoctrinated by some men who are not inspired and are infallible. You would put their doctrine first before the bible; therefore, you are not going to believe the Trinity, not because the bible doesn't teach it, but because they say the bible doesn't teach it.

 

[SLPCCC]

Surely you know that the name of God in the Hebrew scriptures when Jesus was on the earth with the Jews was not Jesus, isn't that right? In fact, they never said Jesus as it is spelled in English anyway.

The point is that the JWs go out preaching Jehovah's name, not following the scriptures, when Jesus and nowhere in the bible does it say to go out teaching the name, "Jehovah". The JWs go out doing what some uninspired men told them to do not what the bible says to do.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is a strange quote from you because it sounds like you have been indoctrinated by the Jehovah's Witnesses. It seems like they have you believing in things that are not scriptural. If I'm right you won't be able to answer the following questions because you are now following a group of men who are not inspired but have you believing in what they teach and not the scriptures. I've been reading their journals. Can you answer the following?

• Where specifically does the bible say the Great Crowd will live on the earth?
• Why does the WT say that the great crowd will live on earth, when revelation 19:1 says that the great crowd is in heaven?
• Can you give one scripture where it says that in the last days, you should look to an organization for the truth?
• In acts 1:8, Jesus says you shall be witnesses of me [Jesus]. Why don’t you go door to door talking about Jesus?
• Can you find just one scripture in the new testament where Jesus told his disciples to tell everybody that God’s name is Jehovah?
• Can you quote just one scripture that specifically says that should you die before Armageddon that you would be resurrected during the thousand years?
• You say you don't believe in the Trinity because the bible doesn't say it; then where are the answers to all these questions?!
• Where in the bible does it say that Jesus is Michael?

If you cannot answer any of the above questions, you don't have an open mind anymore because you have been indoctrinated. You really should look into this. You don't sound reasonable because you were taught and indoctrinated by some men who are not inspired and are infallible. You would put their doctrine first before the bible; therefore, you are not going to believe the Trinity, not because the bible doesn't teach it, but because they say the bible doesn't teach it.

I am answering in reference to the Bible. What I see. As I said, I used to attend church. I was a paid musician in that prestigious church. I did not believe in the trinity then, and I don't now. no one ever went into depth about the subject anyway. Including you. I spoke to many religious leaders. I notice you jump from topic to topic so it's difficult to have a decent conversation with you about God and/or the trinity. The Athanasian Creed is not in harmony with what the scriptures say. It is a made up Creed and is actually god-dishonoring. Because it is not true. It is against Jesus. That you want to believe it is your choice. God permits free will or maybe you don't think so. At this point, I am sorry to say, you exemplify the stubbornness attributed to the Pharisees and those who killed Jesus. As a side note, no one can kill God. No part of God dies. His hand, his arm, his heart...none of the one true God, the Father, ever dies. The Father of Jesus, the only true God (Jesus knew that) never dies. He was never born. He was always.

 

[SLPCCC]

Words change, also meanings, don't they? We are talking about Hebrews 1:8, John 14:28, and the Trinity doctrine, aren't we? (The "throne.") Now I appreciate that you're interested in this, so let's try to stick to the subject.
At John 14:28, where Jesus said the Father is greater than I am but -- one would have to add interpretation in to that statement in order to insert it in the trinity doctrine. John 14:28 -- "the Father is GREATER than I am." There is more to say about Hebrews 1:8, and I see we're getting quite deep, at least I am, and for inquirers I think we should, but it can require a detailed discussion. And, since scholars themselves have disagreed, I guess each one will have to decide what he goes with or accepts.
One commentary (Meyer's New Testament Commentary) says this in part about the wording, or translation at Hebrews 1:8::
"it has been thought by Grimm (Theol. Literaturbl. to the Darmstadt Allg. Kirch.-Zeit. 1857, No. 29, p. 662) and Ewald (das Sendschr. and. Hebr. p. 55), ought not to be explained in the sense of a vocative. According to Grimm, the words are to be taken in the acceptation: “Thy throne, i.e. the foundation of Thy throne, is God;” according to Ewald, they say that “the throne of the Messiah for everlasting ages is God Himself, so that where He reigns, there God Himself is virtually ever present.” (That from Meyer's New Testament Commentary)

This does not make any sense. Were you drinking when you typed this? LOL

 

[YoursTrue]

The point is that the JWs go out preaching Jehovah's name, not following the scriptures, when Jesus and nowhere in the bible does it say to go out teaching the name, "Jehovah". The JWs go out doing what some uninspired men told them to do not what the bible says to do.

When I was in church we occasionally sang about Jehovah, using his name. You may or not be familiar with that.

 

[SLPCCC]

When I was in church we occasionally sang about Jehovah, using his name. You may or not be familiar with that.

I hope you have a sense of humor.

I digressed because I went to read posts I haven't answered.

Yes, the name is even in the book of Revelation. But that's not the only way to say the name.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe a flood does not have personal attributes.

Although what about Jesus saying he is water. Is that personal attribute for water? This is getting sillier and sillier as you keep defending the trinity concept. Sad really.

This does not make any sense. Were you drinking when you typed this? LOL

I hope you have a sense of humor.

I digressed because I went to read posts I haven't answered.

Yes, the name is even in the book of Revelation. But that's not the only way to say the name.

Ok I surely don't know everything. The name is in the book of Revelation? Aside from the other comment you made, I don't think you read it correctly.

 

[YoursTrue]

This does not make any sense. Were you drinking when you typed this? LOL

Why? I guess it's a bit too deep for you. Have a nice day.

 

[SLPCCC]

Although what about Jesus saying he is water. Is that personal attribute for water? This is getting sillier and sillier as you keep defending the trinity concept. Sad really.
The name is in the book of Revelation?

Rev 19:1 "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, to the Lord our God:"

Alleluia is an utterance of the word “hallelujah” means praise Jah

 

[YoursTrue]

Rev 19:1 "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, to the Lord our God:"

Alleluia is an utterance of the word “hallelujah” means praise Jah

Oh, although alleluia (or hallelujah) is a common phrase in churches and the music, it is NOT God's name. The name JEHOVAH is written entirely in some church music. You may or may not know this. Glad you know at least that it means "Praise Jah." Good for that!