The term 'Anti-Semite'...

[AbuQuteiba]

i cannot find the article in english, sorry.

in context, he's not condemning rape as such. he's saying that arabs come to sweden in hordes to, among other things, rape swedish women. and yes, he's a nazi, so he's of the opinion that 'mixed' relations are sickening.

there is probably much to debate about sweden's hate speech laws, but perhaps that is the topic for a different thread. but concerning the topic at hand, i have no problem with germany's law against denying the holocaust, considering their history.

i'm reminded of a noam chomsky quote that i can't remember literally but goes something along the lines of 'to deny the holocaust is to lose one's humanity'. i completely agree. IMO, it's one of the most disgusting opinions one can hold.

I agree

. Neither do i have any problem with a country having laws against anti-semitism, denying the holocaust, rascism etc. But there are people in the U.S. that have said that the holocaust has been blown way out of proportion. And that there is no way that Hitler could have incinerated six million Jews, based on solid proof. I'm not saying i agree with this mans theory. I'm saying in America, and in some parts of Europe, this man can be prosecuted and/or imprisoned. He can lose his/her career, and reputation. This has happened before. I would just like to know why? Why is it so dangerous for a man to be anti-semetic, but quite ok for him to be anti-islamic? I've been told its because the Jews, in America, control the media, and a large part of the economy. I don't really know how true this statement is, so i'm not using it as an argument.

PEACE.

 

[jewscout]

I've been told its because the Jews, in America, control the media, and a large part of the economy. I don't really know how true this statement is, so i'm not using it as an argument.

then you have been told an out and out lie built upon older lies such as "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" This is why labels of antisemitism follow hard on the heals of denials of the holocaust, because the motivation of scholars who deny the holocaust often stem from an inherent antisemitic agenda. Some are just more clever at hiding them than others.

Why is it so dangerous for a man to be anti-semetic, but quite ok for him to be anti-islamic?

Champion, neither should be permitted.

the reason why negative things can happen to a scholar who tries to deny the holocaust or say that it wasn't as bad as it's made out...is because there is a mountain of historical evidence to prove that this scholar is full of crap. This doesn't mean that they won't find evidence to suppor their claim.

Frankly, you can find evidence to support ANY claim about anything. I can find "evidence" to support that the Pyramids were constructed by little green men from outerspace.

but if 5 sources say A and 100 sources say B and B contradicts A, what does it say of the scholar that accepts the 5 over the 100? Especially if sources for B are far more reliable and objective than that of sources of A?

The Klan has a right to hold meetings and say what they want (sadly) and i have a right to stand up and say "YOUR ALL A BUNCH OF ARTARDS!"

but again...i'm getting off topic...sorry folks...

 

[TashaN]

whatever has happened to the jews, the jews must have deserved.

I never implied that in my talk but instead, i said things happened and people were dying everywhere and not only the jews and i was just wondering why people would hate the jews ONLY but not the others?

 

[jewscout]

I never implied that in my talk but instead

yes, you did imply that:
Problems happen because of specific conflicts but to say they hate them just because they are jews is so clearly, ridiculous.
the implication here is that something the jews did caused them to be persecuted, expelled, oppressed and murdered...therefore they must have deserved it.

i said things happened and people were dying everywhere and not only the jews

you said nothing like that

and i was just wondering why people would hate the jews ONLY but not the others?

no, you statements were as follows:

but what i don't understand is that why you think Muslims will hate jews just because they are jews?

are you accusing now the Christians and Muslims of hating jews JUST because they are jews?

Any specific reason???

Oh ya, maybe they envy the jews because they are the chosen people?

Until now i see no reason why a muslim would hate a jew? What for?

your line of questioning was why would christians or muslims hate jews just because they were jews. No other party was brought into the discussion.
and i have answered your question:

it's called indoctrination and brainwashing

 

[AbuQuteiba]

it's called indoctrination and brainwashing

Since thats what it is, you must know that Islam teaches neither.

 

[Booko]

I agree

. Neither do i have any problem with a country having laws against anti-semitism, denying the holocaust, rascism etc. But there are people in the U.S. that have said that the holocaust has been blown way out of proportion. And that there is no way that Hitler could have incinerated six million Jews, based on solid proof. I'm not saying i agree with this mans theory. I'm saying in America, and in some parts of Europe, this man can be prosecuted and/or imprisoned. He can lose his/her career, and reputation. This has happened before. I would just like to know why? Why is it so dangerous for a man to be anti-semetic, but quite ok for him to be anti-islamic? I've been told its because the Jews, in America, control the media, and a large part of the economy. I don't really know how true this statement is, so i'm not using it as an argument.

Am I understanding you correctly that you think in the U.S. someone can be prosecuted and/or imprisoned for Holocaust denial? If so, I would like to know where that is.

I don't know of anywhere here that has such a law, and can't imagine how it would pass muster in the Supreme Court.

Are you sure you weren't thinking of Canada?

Now, it's true if you deny the Holocaust you might have your reputation ruined. If you were a history professor, you would be denied a job, on the grounds of lack of knowledge in your subject. If you are a politician -- well, good luck with that.

And your neighbors would mostly think your nuts, so in that regard you'd lose your reputation.

Not so in any legal sense I'm aware of, though.

P.S. That bit about the Jews control the media is a bunch of arrant nonsense spread by some kooky anti-Semites. Normal people here pay no mind to that any more than they would to equally silly conspiracy theories.

 

[Booko]

Why is it so dangerous for a man to be anti-semetic, but quite ok for him to be anti-islamic?

Champion, I can answer this as a practical thing, but you should understand that my view is not this:

1. Anti-Semitism has resulted in the deaths of 6 million Jews in a very obvious and (to everyone except a few kooks) undeniable way. Jews have no record of a destructive nature in our history. Therefore, anti-Semitism is bad.

2. Anti-Islamism has not resulted in genocide, and there is a history here of Muslims destroying things in this country. Therefore, many people will turn a blind eye to anti-Islamism.

Personally, I don't think it's ok to be anti-Semetic or anti-Islamic.

But at the moment, these practical reasons leave a lot of my countrymen able to ignore the one form of prejudice. They are hurt, they are confused, they are ignorant about Islam now and its history and teachings, and they are motivated by fear and anger, not compassion and curiousity.

If Islam had not been "hijacked", as it so obviously has, we would still have prejudice to work on, because there's still a lack of understanding. But there would be no personal anger behind that prejudice either. There would be some fear, as there is always fear of the "different."

I do what I can in my daily life to encourage people to take a serious and objective look at what Muhammad taught and the example of His life, because that does a lot to encourage people to overcome their prejudice. I believe I have a moral responsibility to do this where I can.

Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing I can do to keep people from hijacking Islam for these obviously anti-Islamic things they are doing. I suspect only Muslims will be able to put a stop to it.

I realize that many Muslims live in conditions of oppression, often going back to the colonial era. There are two basic approaches one can take to "fighting" oppression. One is the way Ghandi and European Jews and Martin Luther King took -- non-violence.

Muslims seem to have taken the other path.

I'm not saying they would have been better off taking a non-violent path. I don't know anywhere near enough to say any such thing. I only observe that non-violence doesn't appear to have been the choice.

But again, as a practical matter, people who take the path of violence must understand that some of that violence will be turned back at them. They must be prepared to pay such a price, because it always is paid.

Jesus said it well when He said to Peter, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

We all would do well to remember this. As individuals, and our govts also. As individuals, we can remind our gov'ts. But they may or may not pay attention to what we have to say. Gov'ts have their own agendas, even in democracies.

 

[Booko]

Since thats what it is, you must know that Islam teaches neither.

I know this, but I have also observed that there are some people who call themselves Muslims who practice indoctrination and brainwashing.

Here in this country, there are some Christians who use the same tools for their own ends. There are not many such, but they exist, and it pays to keep an eye on them.

(Have you read any of the thread that have mentioned "Christian Nation"? You might find them interesting, if you haven't. No country is totally free from extremist elements.)

 

[TashaN]

yes, you did imply that:
Problems happen because of specific conflicts but to say they hate them just because they are jews is so clearly, ridiculous.
the implication here is that something the jews did caused them to be persecuted, expelled, oppressed and murdered...therefore they must have deserved it.

Don't put words in my mouth. That's your own interpretation and i have mine.

 

[Ody]

Don't put words in my mouth. That's your own interpretation and i have mine.

Jay noticed it too.