The Stock Markets and the Banks

[exchemist]

If the banks approve. Nich projects can get funded by croudsourcing easier than trying to get approval from old funddyduddys. Recently there was a Kickstarter for a popular Dungeons and Dragons show to make an animated series of their show, and the interest in their community was so strong that they generated 12 million.

Yes this seems to be fairly typical. Kickstarter is OK for ephemera like this.

I'll start paying attention when the goods and services that make society function are funded this way: things like construction companies, auto and computer makers, energy utilities, supermarkets, transport services, etc. I see no sign of this and I struggle to believe there ever will be. The sums required are just too big to raise in such an amateurish way.

 

[exchemist]

The Helix folding bicycle was initially partially funded this way.
Helix - The New Standard In Folding Bikes
While it was one of the largest offerings in the history of Kickstarter,
only about $1M was raised. Other financing was necessary.

That figures.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no evidence I am aware of that banks or the stock market are going to be displaced by some some new means of funding. What evidence can you provide, other than this kickstarter fringe activity, involving mainly arts projects? How many manufacturing businesses have been started - or expanded - this way?

There was no evidence fuedalism and the absolute authority of the monarchy would be replaced. Then it would. There was no evidence at one point we'd have massive store closings that would take out some of the oldest and biggest companies.
But society is changing, and the internet is changing business, it's changing how we ask for and give money.

 

[Revoltingest]

That hasn't seemed to be the case. And people are still making legal agreements, even when it's private citizens meeting online to arrange a meeting. But a lot of people don't even do that and they get the money donated to them.

Amd yet with many of these programs people give with the expectation of nothing in return.
We are social animals. We are wired for cooperation (which enhances our lives and survival rate) over competition (something people havent been liking when it comes to their life and wellbeing, and no one should have to compete against others for food.

So you think this is a way to finance constructing a new self storage facility?
I like the idea that I'll get money with no strings attached.

 

[exchemist]

Half joking/half serious, you'll have to adk someone more knowledgeable in the ways of the online world. I just know there have been some impressive crowd funded projects. I don't know how exactly they go about doing it, other than doing something on sites like go fund me (I tried and got nothing, but I'm horrible at marketing, advertising, amd self promotion). And I can't make it through an article involving technology anymore without having to look up what something is.

In that case, it's clear you don't know enough about business finance to make claims that the banks and stock markets are going to become obsolete.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you think this is a way to finance constructing a new self storage facility?
I like the idea that I'll get money with no strings attached.

Maybe not now, but with more people turning to p2p loans (even for medical procedures, so these arent necessarily cheap loans) and donation websites I do see it as something that will likely happen. Possible after another "traditional recession" that significantly hinders those such as yourself from securing a loan at a bank, having your peers turning to eachother to help one another out in those hard times, establishing a p2p loan network for construction people.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe not now, but with more people turning to p2p loans (even for medical procedures, so these arent necessarily cheap loans) and donation websites I do see it as something that will likely happen. Possible after another "traditional recession" that significantly hinders those such as yourself from securing a loan at a bank, having your peers turning to eachother to help one another out in those hard times, establishing a p2p loan network for construction people.

P2P loans are extremely hard to get. I do some construction
lending, but I don't even know anyone else who does....except
for banks. In real estate there is sometimes seller financing,
but that is a small segment of the market.
P2P loans also don't involve aggregating resources of the many.
This keeps them small. Banks are efficient at doing this.

 

[exchemist]

There was no evidence fuedalism and the absolute authority of the monarchy would be replaced. Then it would. There was no evidence at one point we'd have massive store closings that would take out some of the oldest and biggest companies.
But society is changing, and the internet is changing business, it's changing how we ask for and give money.

Yes of course things are changing in the world of business. In fact, things are always changing in the world of business. Business investors (i.e. people in the banks and stock markets) devote their entire time to looking out for these changes, as that is how they make money: funding things with a bright future, and avoiding turkeys stuck in the past. The fact that things are changing is quite normal and does not make a case that banks and stock markets are going to become obsolete.

You can buy and sell shares in the banks and stock exchanges too. So the people in this world are looking for any change to ways of doing business, including the financial institutions themselves. So if they thought the future of the banks and stock exchanges was threatened by kickstarter type activity, believe me, we would be reading about it in my newspaper (FT) and we would be seeing consequent falls in the share prices of these institutions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

P2P loans are extremely hard to get. I do some construction
lending, but I don't even know anyone else who does....except
for banks. In real estate there is sometimes seller financing,
but that is a small segment of the market.
P2P loans also don't involve aggregating resources of the many.
This keeps them small. Banks are efficient at doing this.

Rome didn't fall overnight. These are changes we can predict based on the trends we see now.

Yes of course things are changing in the world of business. In fact, things are always changing in the world of business. Business investors (i.e. people in the banks and stock markets) devote their entire time to looking out for these changes, as that is how they make money: funding things with a bright future, and avoiding turkeys stuck in the past. The fact that things are changing is quite normal and does not make a case that banks and stock markets are going to become obsolete.

You can buy and sell shares in the banks and stock exchanges too. So the people in this world are looking for any change to ways of doing business, including the financial institutions themselves. So if they thought the future of the banks and stock exchanges was threatened by kickstarter type activity, believe me, we would be reading about it in my newspaper (FT) and we would be seeing consequent falls in the share prices of these institutions.

How many industries collapse overnight? Sears and Roebuck was a retail giant. Changing times killed it. Even credit cards will likely be doing business differently as increasingly more people are paying off their balance when their bill is due.

 

[Revoltingest]

Rome didn't fall overnight. These are changes we can predict based on the trends we see now.

The trend I see in lending is to use traditional lenders.

How many industries collapse overnight? Sears and Roebuck was a retail giant. Changing times killed it. Even credit cards will likely be doing business differently as increasingly more people are paying off their balance when their bill is due.

Sears had a model that didn't work in the internet age.
But the internet has been a boon to banking & the stock
market by making transactions even easier. There's
room for things like Kickstarter, but I see disadvantages
to using it, eg, unpredictability, time frame, amounts,
legal environment.

 

[Heyo]

There is no evidence I am aware of that banks or the stock market are going to be displaced by some some new means of funding. What evidence can you provide, other than this kickstarter fringe activity, involving mainly arts projects? How many manufacturing businesses have been started - or expanded - this way?

Some frauds. Thunderfoot regularly debunks some of them.

 

[oldbadger]

The Helix folding bicycle was initially partially funded this way.
Helix - The New Standard In Folding Bikes
While it was one of the largest offerings in the history of Kickstarter,
only about $1M was raised. Other financing was necessary.

Did you ever receive your Helix?
You ordered it about two years ago......

 

[exchemist]

Rome didn't fall overnight. These are changes we can predict based on the trends we see now.

How many industries collapse overnight? Sears and Roebuck was a retail giant. Changing times killed it. Even credit cards will likely be doing business differently as increasingly more people are paying off their balance when their bill is due.

Almost no industries collapse overnight. Individual companies may, but industries generally do not. Department stores have been on the skids for years. The threat to bricks and mortar retail from the internet has been the subject of innumerable newspaper articles over the last decade, and old-fashioned department stores have been dinosaurs for for longer than that, even.

I do not believe you can point to any material change in the way business is being funded that threatens the banks and stock markets.

 

[exchemist]

Some frauds. Thunderfoot regularly debunks some of them.

Thunderfoot?

 

[oldbadger]

If anyone has any complaints or issues with the markets or the banks, or any kind of supporting arguments, voice them here so we can all come to a better understanding.

Thanks for your time.

Ha ha! Yes!
All our savings were kept in one Bank in our Joint account (Wife and self).
One day (last year) I went in to draw out a fairly large amount to buy my wife's new car. The bank teller (who had just been very difficult to a male customer before me) told me I needed to give three day's notice for such an amount. So I told her that was 'no problem' because I would draw out half the money right then (an allowed amount) and half the money the next day.
The Teller refused on all kinds of funny excuses. Her (female) manager supported her decision. So I called my wife and told her, and she left work, walked in to the bank, went up to the same teller (who did not know who she was) and asked for exactly the same amount of money.
The teller paid her out immediately!!!
At this point I appeared at the teller's window to explain that she and her manager were being reported to the Equalities Commission for a clear breach of the Equalities Act 2010.

The Bank sent us a written apology and paid £150 in to our account.

And then my wife went back in and closed the account down, sending our funds in to other banks.

I smile whenever I remember that business.

 

[Heyo]

Thunderfoot?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thunderf00t

 

[exchemist]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thunderf00t

Ah, OK, I don't do YouTube videos.

 

[oldbadger]

Almost no industries collapse overnight.

Don't hold your breath.

Individual companies may, but industries generally do not. Department stores have been on the skids for years. The threat to bricks and mortar retail from the internet has been the subject of innumerable newspaper articles over the last decade, and old-fashioned department stores have been dinosaurs for for longer than that, even.

Retail has taken such a bashing in the last 8 months.
Nearly all of my wife's and my own shopping has been undertaken on IT this year because of the lockdown, etc.

The future is rather more difficult to predict than your FT will be able to cope with, I reckon. Honestly.

I do not believe you can point to any material change in the way business is being funded that threatens the banks and stock markets.

Well, there is murmuring and whispering about a depression so vast that it will be an Oppression. Since we've never had one before I think it might be a good time to spread risks beyond stock markets and banks.
For example, even if folks have been slow to transfer some funds to silver and gold it isn't too late to do so now. Both commodities will double and redouble in value over the next four years, or so folks are suggesting.

 

[exchemist]

Don't hold your breath.


Retail has taken such a bashing in the last 8 months.
Nearly all of my wife's and my own shopping has been undertaken on IT this year because of the lockdown, etc.

The future is rather more difficult to predict than your FT will be able to cope with, I reckon. Honestly.


Well, there is murmuring and whispering about a depression so vast that it will be an Oppression. Since we've never had one before I think it might be a good time to spread risks beyond stock markets and banks.
For example, even if folks have been slow to transfer some funds to silver and gold it isn't too late to do so now. Both commodities will double and redouble in value over the next four years, or so folks are suggesting.

Covid 19 has certainly come out of nowhere and wrecked a number of industries( e.g airlines, hospitality).

However there is no reason to think it is going to cause banks and stock markets to become obsolete as the main way enterprises are funded, so far as I can see. You still need a way to put people with money to lend (savers) in touch with people who need to borrow money to grow and run a business. And that will be via banks and stock markets, mainly. Covid 19 doesn't change that.

I don't believe increased use of the internet does so either. You may get some more lending via informal channels for small sums, but for serious amounts people need a professionally regulated system they can trust.

 

[Revoltingest]

Did you ever receive your Helix?
You ordered it about two years ago......

I'm #1400+something, so June or July 2021 looks very likely.
I'm patient, & believe that Helix management is doing a stellar
job in coping with an unexpectedly difficult start-up.
It pains me to say something so positive about Canuckistanians.