SpiritualBeing
Active Member
Holy mother in heaven, is this thread STILL going on. Man, I don't know how long it's been, but I never expected this to still be going. Man, Mickiel congrats on the longevity of this subject.
SB
SB
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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
So you haven't actually read the bible?
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well thank you, some of your bretheren do not feel as you do. The Subject intrest me, with my whole heart. I believe in God with my whole heart, and I seek him in honesty. Can I be wrong about things, of course I can, as could anyone. I just see the Scriptures differently than your constituiants, and I certainly view Salvation altogether differing than most Christians. Like a tatoo on the mind, hell torture is " Marked on many believers belief system."
I tell you, at times I think its because they desire in their hearts for humanity to suffer for eternity, the way they defend it. As if there is no real understanding of the Heart of God himself. A being as powerful as God is, has the ability to correct and save everyone.
And I will go to my grave believing as such.
Peace.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
What do you think is the point of life?
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
We are not going to hell.We can live it here on earth though..
Love
Dallas
Love
Dallas
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Maybe Hell is a self-induced condition.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I assume you mean human life. Thats a good question, I ask myself that many times. I am not yet sure, or fully convinced what was on Gods mind when he created humans. I think his plans for human life, is FAR different than any other beings he has created. It seems to me, that when God first thought of doing it, his mind became " Pregnant", so to speak. I think he actually wants to make humans his very own " Offspring", or you can say " Children." I think one day we all will actually be " Like Him." Simular to him, not exactly like him. I don't think anyone will ever be exactly like God, because God is " Uncreated", everythingelse is. He is all powerful, nonelse will ever be like that.
The point of human life, seems to be simular to a woman giving birth, but first she must go through 9 months of carrying the fetus, as it grows through stages. A crude example, but I think very simular to what God is after in human life in the flesh. A period of growth, development, and then be born into the real Life. So I think the earth is a large " Womb", wherein humans are living a temporary physical chemical existence, until we are born again into the REAL Life with God.
At this point, I know no other way to explain it. And this may be wrong.
Peace.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Very, very interesting. I think I would mostly agree. So, do you think we have a part to play in this process? Or does God have ultimate control? It would seem that, if we were to one day become like God, we would need to become independent, rational beings making our own choices and choosing our own ends. What do you think?
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I think God has ultimate control, and in his world, there is no end to things, only the sin and evil, he for some reason, included into our creation. In that sense, we will never " Choose our own ends." Yet in another sense, I think we will be independant thinkers, just not independant from God. But independantly conscious, for that is Gods gift of Life, that we are now conscious thinkers. But only to a degree, I don't think the time will ever come where God will allow any life, to just do its own thing.
Besides, once given his Spirit, I just believe we will only desire to do his will, because we will KNOW how Good God really is. When a righteous God rules, the people will rejoice in that, simular to humans being happy if they have a good human leader.Ultimatelt I think there is only one way to deal with God, and that is to serve him. There really is no other options with God. He really is a God, we just have never dealt with such a being as him. Really the only rational way, is to submit to him, he created us. It would be irrational to try to do anything other wise, yet that is in our nature now, we do not submit, because we just don't really understand how righteous and Powerful he is.
If God wanted to, he could say submit, or you just will not exist. Either you do what he says, or you are at risk of never doing anything again. But God has not done that. Because he knows that we know no better.
Peace.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree. There is no rational alternative. I guess the place we disagree is that I think we do choose our own ends. The only way to be like God, is to be good. The only way to be good is to choose good. The only way to choose good is for there to be an alternative. What is so great about choosing good if there is no alternative? It looses it's meaning.
The bible doesnt actually speak of Hell.
Please quote me the scripture where it says a loving God is going to let us burn forever in Hell.
SpiritualBeing
Active Member
My brother, the Bible does speak of Hell. Now, I'm not starting an argument on whether the Bible is then truth, but I am merely stating that the Holy Bible, as the wotrd of God and Christ, does speak of hell.
And just to throw in here, the Bible does say that Jesus himself spent time in Hell, to save us from sin and to open the gates of Heaven.
:candle:
no it says that he spent time in death, not hell.
please use the scripture to define hell. It is most likely misconstrued becasue what people believe is hell is actually death. The kind of death that you are resurrected from
So again I say the bible does not speak of hell, it speaks of death. Two types the kind where you come back from (Hades and Sheol) and the kind that is described as everlasting destruction. Called Gehenna
please use the scripture to define hell. It is most likely misconstrued becasue what people believe is hell is actually death. The kind of death that you are resurrected from
So again I say the bible does not speak of hell, it speaks of death. Two types the kind where you come back from (Hades and Sheol) and the kind that is described as everlasting destruction. Called Gehenna
SpiritualBeing
Active Member
My friend, you have obviously not read the Bible properly. When I get home, I will find you quotes from the NT & Psalms Bible given to me by the Gideons. The Bible does speak of hell, and it does describe a place of raginh fires, death and destruction.
I am now going to finish this little by-debate, as the topic of this thread is not on the scriptures, but on the concept of Hell.
I am now going to finish this little by-debate, as the topic of this thread is not on the scriptures, but on the concept of Hell.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
Take your pick.
It's also worth noting that you still haven't answered my question. Have you actually read the bible? It's my experience that most people who make claims based on the bible have only ever heard select verses from their priest/pastor and haven't actually read the bible, so they don't know what it actually says.
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SpiritualBeing
Active Member
Right, here we go, as promised. This quote is taken from 2 Thesselonians 1:7,9 -
"... and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from Heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power ..."
:candle:
"... and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from Heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power ..."
:candle:
mickiel
Well-Known Member
The real threat to Salvation, is the misunderstanding of christians, they are the threat. They will push hell unto the end. The " Gates of Hell", or a mind open to the belief of hell, shallNOT prevail against Gods true Church, which everyone Jesus died for is destined to be a part of.
But christians are trying to " Limit Salvation", teaching that God has created it to be a " Free Will decesion", so that they can glory in their decision, and condemn others who have not made that choice. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13;" But woe to you, scribes and pharisees, ( which really is what modernday christians are, Pharisees) because you " SHUT OFF the Kingdom from men." They are trying to limit salvation to " Only christians." Which I think is evil. Jesus call tyhese self righteous believers, " Twice the sons of hell", vs. 15. They are children of hell because they believe in it with all their hearts.
Once a christian enters into a conversation, a very astute deception also enters. And they will start to condemn nonstop.
Peace.
But christians are trying to " Limit Salvation", teaching that God has created it to be a " Free Will decesion", so that they can glory in their decision, and condemn others who have not made that choice. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13;" But woe to you, scribes and pharisees, ( which really is what modernday christians are, Pharisees) because you " SHUT OFF the Kingdom from men." They are trying to limit salvation to " Only christians." Which I think is evil. Jesus call tyhese self righteous believers, " Twice the sons of hell", vs. 15. They are children of hell because they believe in it with all their hearts.
Once a christian enters into a conversation, a very astute deception also enters. And they will start to condemn nonstop.
Peace.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Please try to remember that your condemnation of Christians is not really deserved by all Christians. I don't think it is a majority view that all non-Christians are going to hell. Besides, why do you care. If there is no hell, why does it matter if people think there's a hell?
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Yes everlasting destruction, not Hellfire there is a difference. Gehenna is a place of everlasting destruction, not burning for eternity in a pit of fire.
Oh and yes I have read the bible, not just heard it from the elders/pastor/preacher or whatever you may want to call them.
oh and by the way, I am a Christian and I believe all can obtain repentance, and i dont believe in hell. This is all based on a christian bible based study
1 Thessalonians 1:6-10
This takes into account that it is righteous on Gods part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder in connection with all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among YOU.
Again it does not say, everlasting torment in a fiery hell dimension poked with hot pokers and pain all the time. It says everlasting destruction. Destruction, non-existance. thats what it is.