The Sun Does Not Rise In Hell
The vast majority of historians who specialize in Biblical studies do not consider the Gospels to be anything except a mythology created from Greek/Persian theology.
When the question of the historicity of Jesus comes up in an honest professional context, we are not asking whether the Gospel Jesus existed. All non-fundamentalist scholars agree that that Jesus never did exist. Christian apologetics is pseudo-history. No different than defending Atlantis. Or Moroni. Or women descending from Adam’s rib.
That is nonsense.
First of all, Carrier is wrong. The vast majority of scholars (fundamentalist or not) agree that Jesus of Nazareth existed.
Bart Ehrman is a non-fundamentalist scholar, and he believes in the historical Jesus.
Second, Richard Carrier got absolutely DESTROYED by William Lane Craig in their debate on the Resurrection. It was a complete and utter annihilation and I actually felt sorry for Carrier.
It was a terrible loss and performance by someone you hold in such high regard.
No. We aren’t interested in that.
When it comes to Jesus, just as with anyone else, real history is about trying to figure out what, if anything, we can really know about the man depicted in the New Testament (his actual life and teachings), through untold layers of distortion and mythmaking; and what, if anything, we can know about his role in starting the Christian movement that spread after his death. Consequently, I will here disregard fundamentalists and apologists as having no honest part in this debate, any more than they do on evolution or cosmology or anything else they cannot be honest about even to themselves.
Historicity Big and Small: How Historians Try to Rescue Jesus • Richard Carrier
Well, I can just as easily disregard skeptics and critics as having no honest part in this debate...because it is one thing to reject the claim that Jesus is the risen Messiah, but to reject the idea that Jesus of Nazareth even existed is beyond the realm of healthy skepticism, it is down right dishonest and academically radical.
Luke is not a historian. Again, Carrier
"So we know Luke is making a lot of things up in order to deliberately sell a fake history, for purposes of winning an argument against doubters (both within and without Christianity, as his opponents included, for example, Christians with very different ideas about the nature of the resurrection).
This already warns us not to trust anything he has added to the story found in Mark and Matthew: we should assume it is, like those, a convenient fabrication invented for some purpose, unless we can find sufficient evidence to believe otherwise. .....
despite his pretense at being a historian, preface and all, Luke's methods are demonstrably nonhistorical: he is not doing research, weighing facts, checking them against independent sources, and writing down what he thinks most likely happened.He is simply producing an expanded and redacted literary hybird of a couple of previous religious novels (Matthew and Mark), each itself even more obviously constructed according to literary conventions rather than historiographical.
Unlike other historians of even his own era, Luke never names his sources or explains why we are to trust them (or why he did), or how he chose what to include or exclude. In fact Luke does not even declare any critical method at all, but rather insists he slavishly followed what was handed to him - yet another claim we know to be a lie (since we have two of his sources and can confirm he freely altered then to suit his own agenda)."
First off, your appealing to Carrier means nothing.
I can just as easily provide quotes and insights from my sources who depict Luke as a credible historian.
So please, stop it with the Carrier stuff.
Pascals Wager. Debunked. I can say the same about every version of the underworld and religion. Allah sounds pretty scary. Yet you are not worried.
Atheism sounds very scary too.
"When you die, nothing happens".
Yup. That is indeed a scary concept.
In Biblical times the average life span was 38 yeras.
Ohhh, so when Jesus died around age 33, he wasn't too far off from that dreadful age of 38, huh?