The Rebellion in Heaven, was it sin?

[AdamjEdgar]

REv 12:7. Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Did the Lucifer and those angels who followed him, commit sin in the war in heaven?

The bible indicates the following in 1John

3: 1Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start.

When we read the 10 commandments we find the following laws that seem relevant here:
3You shall have no other gods before Me.a

4You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,

12Honor your father and mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.c

17You shall not coveth your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, or his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Did not Satan break all of the above laws when he rebelled against God? It seems to me that he did. Note what Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness...

Matthew 4:
8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9“All this I will give You,” he said, “if You will fall down and worship me.”10“Away from Me, Satan!” Jesus declared. “For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’d”


from the above, i conclude that the first sin was not that of Adam and Eve, but Lucifer and his angels in Heaven!

 

[exchemist]

REv 12:7. Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Did the Lucifer and those angels who followed him, commit sin in the war in heaven?

The bible indicates the following in 1John

3: 1Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start.

When we read the 10 commandments we find the following laws that seem relevant here:
3You shall have no other gods before Me.a

4You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,

12Honor your father and mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.c

17You shall not coveth your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, or his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Did not Satan break all of the above laws when he rebelled against God? It seems to me that he did. Note what Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness...

Matthew 4:
8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9“All this I will give You,” he said, “if You will fall down and worship me.”10“Away from Me, Satan!” Jesus declared. “For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’d”


from the above, i conclude that the first sin was not that of Adam and Eve, but Lucifer and his angels in Heaven!

And you find this remarkable?

 

[Kenny]

REv 12:7. Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Did the Lucifer and those angels who followed him, commit sin in the war in heaven?

The bible indicates the following in 1John

3: 1Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start.

When we read the 10 commandments we find the following laws that seem relevant here:
3You shall have no other gods before Me.a

4You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,

12Honor your father and mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.c

17You shall not coveth your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, or his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Did not Satan break all of the above laws when he rebelled against God? It seems to me that he did. Note what Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness...

Matthew 4:
8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9“All this I will give You,” he said, “if You will fall down and worship me.”10“Away from Me, Satan!” Jesus declared. “For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’d”


from the above, i conclude that the first sin was not that of Adam and Eve, but Lucifer and his angels in Heaven!

I would agree. It might explain Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (in Heaven)

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Adam was the first "human made in God's image and likeness" to sin on this earth.

 

[Father Heathen]

Perhaps Lucifer's rebellion was a noble one against tyranny.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Sin comes from temptation, but that old serpent is the accuser of mankind; mankind was tempted into knowledge of good and evil. Meaning man was persecuted for being lukewarm morally, and knowing it.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

I think also, note what James says...

1:5 Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But he must ask in faith, without doubting, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8He is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

Clearly when Lucifer began to doubt in heaven, that suggests to me that his separation from God began in the moment of doubt...sin entered the universe at this point in time. This suggests that the need for salvation began long before Adam and Eve sinned in the garden of Eden...and this is a big deal. It destroys the argument that the 10 commandments written on tablets of stone at the time of Moses are only relevant to Judaism. Clearly, the transgression of the law is far more extensive than just breaking those 10 commandments. Perhaps its not the wording of the commandments that should be considered here, but the bigger picture...that perfect heavenly beings did not need the law explaining to them on tablets of stone. Prior to the flood i do not think mankind needed them either. Clearly after the flood a simple reminder was necessary...so they were spelled out rather explicitly, however, in heaven it was a universal understanding that did not need explanation.

To illustrate my point in this, which of the 10 commandments did Eve break when she took of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Answer...none. There is no "10 commandment" that says "do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". It was given as a commandment in the Garden to Adam after he was created in Genesis 2:16&17

And yet, Eves sin clearly resulted in death (eventually)...so she did transgress a law that was very obviously in existence at that time.

If we go back further, when Lucifer rebelled in Heaven, which law did he break? He obviously broke a law because he was cast out of heaven for breaking it and he lost his position as the highest of all the angels next to God and became that "ancient serpent" from that point forward.