The real cause of Islamic terrorism

[Hema]

Hema, I would love it if, sometime when you have time, you started a thread just on this.

Perhaps one of these days when I have more time.

 

[Hema]

Thanks, Hema. Does Swami Vivekananda’s statement that "it came from within themselves" mean that God revealed it from within the sages, as opposed to an external revelation of the type claimed in other faiths?

When the first Rishis meditated and emptied their minds, they could hear the sounds of the universe. God revealed the Vedas directly from himself to these Rishis. Hinduism believes that the univerese operates in cycles of creation. Even during the period between cycles when all manifested creation is reabsorbed into the Supreme Being, the Vedas are also reabsorbed and are manifested again at the beginning of each new cycle of creation. The Vedas renew themselves at the beginning of each cycle.

 

[Hema]

Hindu nationalism is a reaction against Islamic fundamentalism and the attempts of Christian missionaries to convert Hindus to Christianity. The Hindus are traumatized by the seperation of Pakistan and Bangladesh (east Pakistan) from India and hence they naturally feel threatened by Islamic fundamentalism and Christian missionary activity in India , which they feel will reduce the Hindus to a minority in their own country. Hence their aggressiveness and exclusiveness. (which I maintain is reactive and not proactive).
However unlike the Christian and Islamic faiths , they never have tried to convert non-Hindus to Hinduism by force or lure of monetary benefits . They are only trying to protect their existing numbers , and they are not trying to increase their numbers.

If this is the case, then I understand where you are coming from.

I agree that Hindus don't try to convert others by force. Hinduism is a religion of ahimsa and usually if there is fighing, it is as a last resort. However, I know that this might not be the situation in all cases. As with all religions, there are a few bad apples in between who give a negative stereotype to the religion.

 

[niranjan]

It is a fact that the Zoroastrians , escaping Islamic persecution in Iran, fled to India where they were given refuge and full freedom of worship by the Hindus. Hence , there is a significant Zoroastrian population in India and they were never ill-treated by the Hindus.


Same with the Jews, who came to India, escaping Roman persecution and the Roman destruction of their temple , and again like the Zoroastrians , they were given refuge and full freedom of worship by the Hindus. There is again a significant Jewish population in India and they too have never been ill-treated by the Hindus. It is a fact that India is the only country in the world that has never discriminated against its Jewish population on the grounds of religion or culture or ethnicity.


Same again with the Bahais. There is a significant Bahai population in India and they too have never been ill-treated by the Hindus for their different beliefs. In fact many Hindus visit the Bahai temple in Delhi, and revere the teachings of Bahaullah(me included).And I am also proud to say that India has the largest number of Bahais in the world.

The syrian christians who came to India, was also given refuge and full freedom of worship by the hindus. Hence we have a significant population of syrian christians in south india.

It should be clearly understood that Hindu nationalism , while emphasising pride in Hindu culture and religion, is also a reaction against Islamic fundamentalism and the attempts of Christian missionaries to convert Hindus to Christianity , using monetary benefits and negative propaganda of their faith.
It has never harmed other religions whatsoever and will never do so.


Our muslim president A.P.J . Abdul Kalam was elected to power by the hindu nationalist party, BJP. And at present we have a muslim president, sikh prime minister, and a christian lady is the leader of the governing party of India. All this in India which has an overwhelming hindu majority population itself shows our secular credentials.

Our secular credentials and our history of accepting other persecuted religions and races like the zoroastrians, jews, bahais, syrian christians, tibetan buddhists is something which no country on earth can boast of.

 

[niranjan]

By my earlier posts , I am not preaching hatred against any religion. However fundamentalism, dogmatism and fanaticism in all its forms anywhere ought to be despised and eradicated . And I hope my posts will help to achieve that .

In this context , I wish to quote this teaching of Buddha...

Believe nothing, merely because you have been told it, or because it is traditional or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for your teacher. But whatever after due consideration and analysis you find to be conducive to the good , the benefit, the welfare of all beings, that doctrine , believe and cling to and take it as your guide.
- Buddha

 

[vivek_prayag]

I would like to add some real incident which shows the greatness of hindu sages. The great philosopher kumaril bhatt put itself on funeral pyre after defeating his buddhist guru in shastraratha(religious debate).He has done this because he has disrespected his buddhist guru and hence his guru had to accept the hindu religion. This incident led to the revival of hindu religion and downfall of buddhist religion in india. This happened without any massive massacre.It is right that all religion have some bad apples. But, i think islamic leaders shall introspect themselves that why they don't give freedom to other religions in countries where muslims r in majority.

 

[Hema]

Yes I believe that at the end of the day, we must take advice from our gurus, but it is really up to us to listen to that inner guru and act accordingly.

Vivek, that is very interesting. I didn't know that before.

Niranjan, I understand that you are not preaching hatred against any one religion.

I am so happy that both of you have joined RF and are participating on the Hindu forum. The Hinduism forum has been sort of dormant for a while. I'm really enjoying these discussions. Please, I urge you to stay on with RF. RF is a lot of fun but both of you have made it funner. :yes: I know "funner" is not a real word but it exists in Hema's dictionary.

 

[niranjan]

It is a fact that the Zoroastrians , escaping Islamic persecution in Iran, fled to India where they were given refuge and full freedom of worship by the Hindus. Hence , there is a significant Zoroastrian population in India and they were never ill-treated by the Hindus.
Same with the Jews, who came to India, escaping Roman persecution and the Roman destruction of their temple , and again like the Zoroastrians , they were given refuge and full freedom of worship by the Hindus. There is again a significant Jewish population in India and they too have never been ill-treated by the Hindus. It is a fact that India is the only country in the world that has never discriminated against its Jewish population on the grounds of religion or culture or ethnicity.
Same again with the Bahais. There is a significant Bahai population in India and they too have never been ill-treated by the Hindus for their different beliefs. In fact many Hindus visit the Bahai temple in Delhi, and revere the teachings of Bahaullah(me included).
It should be clearly understood that Hindu nationalism , while emphasising pride in Hindu culture and religion, is also a reaction against Islamic fundamentalism and the attempts of Christian missionaries to convert Hindus to Christianity , using monetary benefits and negative propaganda of their faith.
It has never harmed other religions whatsoever and will never do so.

To this , I wish to add one more religious group. The Tibetan Buddhists, headed by the Dalai Lama, fled to India in order to escape Chinese communist persecution. Just like the Zoroastrians and Jews, the Tibetan Buddhists too were granted refuge in India by the Hindus, and given full freedom of worship. There is now a thriving one million strong Tibetan Buddhist community in India with their own temples. Many Hindus too revere the Dalai Lama.
Many Hindus too revere Jesus Christ and visit churches(me included), and many revere the sufi saints and visit their tombs, without abandoning their Hindu faith.
All these shows that the Hindus are a tolerant people and accept and revere other faiths too.
However , the Hindu tolerance and acceptance of other faiths should not be equated with tolerance and acceptance of fundamentalism as well.

 

[James the Persian]

It is a fact that the Zoroastrians , escaping Islamic persecution in Iran, fled to India where they were given refuge and full freedom of worship by the Hindus. Hence , there is a significant Zoroastrian population in India and they were never ill-treated by the Hindus.
Same with the Jews, who came to India, escaping Roman persecution and the Roman destruction of their temple , and again like the Zoroastrians , they were given refuge and full freedom of worship by the Hindus. There is again a significant Jewish population in India and they too have never been ill-treated by the Hindus. It is a fact that India is the only country in the world that has never discriminated against its Jewish population on the grounds of religion or culture or ethnicity.
Same again with the Bahais. There is a significant Bahai population in India and they too have never been ill-treated by the Hindus for their different beliefs. In fact many Hindus visit the Bahai temple in Delhi, and revere the teachings of Bahaullah(me included).
It should be clearly understood that Hindu nationalism , while emphasising pride in Hindu culture and religion, is also a reaction against Islamic fundamentalism and the attempts of Christian missionaries to convert Hindus to Christianity , using monetary benefits and negative propaganda of their faith.
It has never harmed other religions whatsoever and will never do so.

Don't forget that there is also an ancient Christian presence in India, which long pre-dates even the Portugese import of Roman Catholicism. In fact it dates from the first few centuries of the Church. To the best of my knowledge neither the Oriental Orthodox (Malankara Orthodox in India) nor the Assyrian Church of the East, both of whom historically had thriving communities on the subcontinent, ever engaged in aggressive proselytism of Hindus. Please don't be tempted to tar all Christians with the same brush - some of us have never sent, and never would send such missionaries and we (the Orthodox) have been the victims of precisely such sheep stealing tactics from protestant and other missionaries since the fall of communism in Eastern Europe.

James

 

[vivek_prayag]

Namaskar,
I don't think niranjan is blaming the entire christian community.But , it is the fact that some of the christian missionaries r involved in converting hindus of tribal areas.I ascribe to the concept of shastrartha(religious+logical debate) and the person who is defeated shall accept the other philosophy/religion.It is on this basis the buddhist monks and hindu saints live there lives in ancient and medieval times.

 

[Hema]

Don't forget that there is also an ancient Christian presence in India, which long pre-dates even the Portugese import of Roman Catholicism. In fact it dates from the first few centuries of the Church. To the best of my knowledge neither the Oriental Orthodox (Malankara Orthodox in India) nor the Assyrian Church of the East, both of whom historically had thriving communities on the subcontinent, ever engaged in aggressive proselytism of Hindus. Please don't be tempted to tar all Christians with the same brush - some of us have never sent, and never would send such missionaries and we (the Orthodox) have been the victims of precisely such sheep stealing tactics from protestant and other missionaries since the fall of communism in Eastern Europe.

James

Oh don't worry James, I certainly don't think that all Christians try to convert others and I don't think Niranjan thinks so either. Remember he said that he sometimes attends church. I attended a Catholic school and I loved to sing "Our Father". My school even set aside one day for the week for different religious groups to have their own asseblies. For the Hindu festival of Divali, the school allows the Hindus to hold a program and similarly for Eid, the Muslims are allowed to hold their own program.

I believe in what Ghandi Ji said. He said that he will open the windows of his home to allow breeze from all directions to blow in, but he will refuse to be blown off his feet.

We are all brothers and sisters in spirit, regardless of what religion we belong to.

 

[niranjan]

The three levels of Consciousness


From Intuition for Starters by J. Donald Walters( a direct disciple of Paramahamsa Yogananda, the author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi' )


The totality of our consciousness is comprised of three levels: the subconscious, the conscious, and the superconscious. These levels of consciousness represent differing degrees of intensity of awareness…

The first level, the subconscious, is relatively dim in awareness: it is the stuff of which dreams are made. We may think of it as the repository of all remembered experiences, impressions left on the mind by those experiences, and tendencies awakened or reinforced by those impressions. Every experience we've ever had, every thought, every impression of loss or gain, resides in the subconscious mind and determines our patterns of thought and behavior far more than we realize.

The subconscious, being unrestricted by the rigid demands of logic, permits a certain flow of ideas. This flow may border on intuition, but if the ideas are too circumscribed by subjectivity, they won't correspond with the external world around us. When we dream at night, we are mainly operating on the subconscious level...

The subconscious mind can all too easily intrude itself on our conscious awareness, tricking us into thinking we're getting intuitive guidance, when actually we're merely being influenced by past impressions and unfulfilled desires. The subconscious mind is in some ways close to the superconscious, where real intuition resides. Both represent a flow of awareness without logical obstructions. The subconscious is therefore more open to the intuitions of the superconscious, and sometimes receives them, though usually mixed with confusing imagery. To be really clear in the guidance we receive is difficult, but very important. Calamitous decisions have been make in the belief that one was drawing on higher guidance, when in fact one was responding only to subconscious preconditioning.

The next level of consciousness from which we receive guidance is the conscious state, the rational awareness that usually guides our daily decisions. When we receive input from the senses, analyze the facts, and makes decisions based on this information, we are using this conscious level of guidance. This process is also strongly affected by the opinions of others, which can cloud our ability to draw true guidance.

Dividing and separating the world into either/or categories, the conscious level of awareness is problem-oriented. It's difficult to be completely certain of decisions drawn from this level, because the analytical mind can see all the possible solutions. But ultimately it doesn't have the ability to distinguish which one is best. If we rely exclusively on the conscious mind, we may find ourselves lacking in certainty and slipping into a state of perpetual indecision…

Intuition and heightened mental clarity flow from superconscious awareness. The conscious mind is limited by its analytical nature, and therefore sees all things as separate and distinct. We may be puzzled by a certain situation, but because it seems unrelated to other events, it's difficult to draw a clear course of action. By contrast, because the superconscious mind is unitive and sees all things as part of a whole, it can readily draw solutions. In superconsciousness the problem and the solution are seen as one, as though the solution was a natural outgrowth from the problem.

 

[Hema]

The three levels of Consciousness


From Intuition for Starters by J. Donald Walters( a direct disciple of Paramahamsa Yogananda, the author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi' )


The totality of our consciousness is comprised of three levels: the subconscious, the conscious, and the superconscious. These levels of consciousness represent differing degrees of intensity of awareness…

The first level, the subconscious, is relatively dim in awareness: it is the stuff of which dreams are made. We may think of it as the repository of all remembered experiences, impressions left on the mind by those experiences, and tendencies awakened or reinforced by those impressions. Every experience we've ever had, every thought, every impression of loss or gain, resides in the subconscious mind and determines our patterns of thought and behavior far more than we realize.

The subconscious, being unrestricted by the rigid demands of logic, permits a certain flow of ideas. This flow may border on intuition, but if the ideas are too circumscribed by subjectivity, they won't correspond with the external world around us. When we dream at night, we are mainly operating on the subconscious level...

The subconscious mind can all too easily intrude itself on our conscious awareness, tricking us into thinking we're getting intuitive guidance, when actually we're merely being influenced by past impressions and unfulfilled desires. The subconscious mind is in some ways close to the superconscious, where real intuition resides. Both represent a flow of awareness without logical obstructions. The subconscious is therefore more open to the intuitions of the superconscious, and sometimes receives them, though usually mixed with confusing imagery. To be really clear in the guidance we receive is difficult, but very important. Calamitous decisions have been make in the belief that one was drawing on higher guidance, when in fact one was responding only to subconscious preconditioning.

The next level of consciousness from which we receive guidance is the conscious state, the rational awareness that usually guides our daily decisions. When we receive input from the senses, analyze the facts, and makes decisions based on this information, we are using this conscious level of guidance. This process is also strongly affected by the opinions of others, which can cloud our ability to draw true guidance.

Dividing and separating the world into either/or categories, the conscious level of awareness is problem-oriented. It's difficult to be completely certain of decisions drawn from this level, because the analytical mind can see all the possible solutions. But ultimately it doesn't have the ability to distinguish which one is best. If we rely exclusively on the conscious mind, we may find ourselves lacking in certainty and slipping into a state of perpetual indecision…

Intuition and heightened mental clarity flow from superconscious awareness. The conscious mind is limited by its analytical nature, and therefore sees all things as separate and distinct. We may be puzzled by a certain situation, but because it seems unrelated to other events, it's difficult to draw a clear course of action. By contrast, because the superconscious mind is unitive and sees all things as part of a whole, it can readily draw solutions. In superconsciousness the problem and the solution are seen as one, as though the solution was a natural outgrowth from the problem.

Namaste Niran Ji,
Hey, good to see you. You were missed! :yes:

Thank you for that beautiful excerpt. We should be very careful when acting on our inner feelings. It might just be a notion shaped from our previous experiences and can therefore be biased and will not show a true result or course of action that we should take.

 

[Super Universe]

The real cause of Islamic terrorism?

Jealousy.

 

[lilithu]

This thread does not belong in the Hinduism DIR, even if the poster is Hindu. The content is inherently inflammatory and the poster has not tried to avoid debating with respondents.

It would be like if I started a thread in the UU DIR trying to "explain" why Christianity is inherently evil and then expected that no Christian would be allowed to defend his or her religion. It ain't right.

 

[zenzero]

Friend,
Each teacher realised truth in differnt times at differnt places but one thing is certain the truth remains one the realisation is the same.
Next part comes communicating the unnameable and mind alwys uses pictures to understand and this has been the most diffcult part by all teachers/master/buddha who have realised as to how to pass /transmit the light which is best possible bthrough silence by putting in words.
Lao Tzu has been clear about it and so used the least words and started TAO-Te-CHING stating in the first stanza itself that truth once said does not remain truth.
Similarly Jesus faced tremendous problem and so we have few people who could realise truth through the Christian WAY and the same goes for Muhammad.
A desert where only nomads live and with so many in fighting between tribes that it must have been difficult to make people understand what TRUTH he realised. Stories whether in Koran or Bible are told for making people unaware of the subject understand., India/China had people through out who were well versed in the subject and so many realsied truth in differnt ways that all of them without naming nameselves left their ways of realisation for others which is the basis of hindusim
Muhammad had to deal with nomads and them fighting between themselves as a way of surivival and so the concept of marrying four as otherwise so many men dying in those tribal wars that the survival of men and in turn humans will be diffcult.
Being poor and without much education the society largely depended on religious heads after the demise of Muhammed and they slowly misled the poor by wrongly interpreting the teachings and then leading them towards christian etc. as jehads/religious wars.
Poverty and all learning through religious schools as an option which exits even today led to this situation Not that the realisation of TRUTh was faulty.
Love & rgds

 

[celina]

edit....

 

[zenzero]

thathastu!

 

[michel]

***************************************MOD POST******************************************
Moved to general Debates​

 

[niranjan]

This thread does not belong in the Hinduism DIR, even if the poster is Hindu. The content is inherently inflammatory and the poster has not tried to avoid debating with respondents.

It would be like if I started a thread in the UU DIR trying to "explain" why Christianity is inherently evil and then expected that no Christian would be allowed to defend his or her religion. It ain't right.

That may be true, but Swami Vivekananda is revered by Hindus,and is considered as a prophet. Many see him as an incarnation of Shiva himself. He is hugely popular in India and is popular all over the world.

He is highly revered by the likes of Mahatma Gandhi, Aurobindo, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, the French Nobel Prize winner and savant Romain Rolland and others.


Aurobindo , the greatest Indian philosopher of the 20th century has this to say about Vivekananda ...

Vivekananda was a soul of puissance if ever there was one, a very lion among men, but the definitive work he has left behind is quite incommensurate with our impression of his creative might and energy. We perceive his influence still working gigantically, we know not well how, we know not well where, in something that is not yet formed, something leonine, grand, intuitive, upheaving that has entered the soul of India and we say, "Behold, Vivekananda still lives in the soul of his Mother and in the souls of her children. --Sri Aurobindo--1915 in Vedic Magazine.


Romain Rolland, the French savant, and Nobel Prize winner, has this to say about Swami Vivekananda ....


I cannot touch these sayings of his, scattered as they are through the pages of this book at thirty years' distance, without receiving a thrill through my body like an electric shock. And what shock, what transport, must have been produced when, in burning words, they issued from the lips of the hero!



Mahatma Gandhi has this to say about Vivekananda....

"Swami Vivekananda's writings need no introduction from anybody. They make their own irresistible appeal."

A contemporary American scholar has stated that Vivekananda is greater than all their scholars put together.

Vivekananda left a body of philosophical works (see Vivekananda's complete works) which Vedic scholar Frank Parlato has called, "the greatest comprehensive work in philosophy ever published."





I have no problems whatsoever if this thread is there also in the General Debate forum or other forums as well. And I am prepared to address any questions posed by respondents in any of these forums.