The Question Islam and Christianity Can't Answer

[TagliatelliMonster]

In Islamic theology, God is believed to be both just and merciful. The concept of Hell (Jahannam) in Islam is understood as a place of punishment for those who have consciously and persistently rejected God's guidance and mercy during their lives.

The second sentence directly contradicts the first.

 

[Tomef]

Do they?
According to traditional theology, one goes to hell merely for not holding certain faith based beliefs that have no verifiable evidence. Regardless of how one lead ones life, how one treated others,... Doesn't matter at all. The sole "crime" was not being gullible.

Is not being gullible a good justification for eternal torment in your opinion?


And regardless of that obvious messed up thing....
Is there ANY finite crime with finite consequences which "deserves" an infinite punishment?
How do you justify such?



See? You are acknowledging it right there.
So "not being gullible" in your opinion is a justified reason for eternal torment.
Not believing something is a justified reason for eternal torment

Morally bankrupt much?



So it's not about morals at all.
It's about being a sycophant.

There may be a misrendering of the text. It could be that ‘hell’ is just a vowel error, given that ancient Hebrew has no vowels (maybe), and what was meant is ‘all sinners will be sent to Hull’. While excruciatingly dull, Hull is not known for painfully high temperatures or demonic pitchfork wielding.

 

[Tomef]

those who have consciously and persistently rejected God's guidance and mercy during their lives.

Which would mean what, in practice?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There may be a misrendering of the text. It could be that ‘hell’ is just a vowel error, given that ancient Hebrew has no vowels (maybe), and what was meant is ‘all sinners will be sent to Hull’. While excruciatingly dull, Hull is not known for painfully high temperatures or demonic pitchfork wielding.

Whatever it is, it is punishment.

And you think that not believing something is a good justification for receiving said punishment.

While not believing something simply is the result of personal honesty of not being convinced of something.


While believing something on bad evidence is sheer gullibility.


IOW, your god rewards gullibility and punishes intellectual honesty.

And you call that "justice".
It's moral bankrupcy to boot.

 

[Tomef]

Whatever it is, it is punishment.

And you think that not believing something is a good justification for receiving said punishment.

While not believing something simply is the result of personal honesty of not being convinced of something.


While believing something on bad evidence is sheer gullibility.


IOW, your god rewards gullibility and punishes intellectual honesty.

And you call that "justice".
It's moral bankrupcy to boot.

I see you don’t have your humour glasses on: BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Where is the worst place to live in the world?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I see you don’t have your humour glasses on: BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Where is the worst place to live in the world?

Note to self: check the name of the poster you ar replying to

 

[Comradio251]

Knowing what you will choose doesnt remove your free will

It's not knowing what "you" will choose to do in your life per se it's what God already chose for your ultimate end before you even know it. That's omniscience . There is no "free will" in that, just destiny.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Why would an omniscient and loving God knowingly create many people he knows he will one day throw into hell after they get done living out their lives?

I personally don't believe that there is a place like hell. However, as many Christians will tell you, God does not throw anyone into hell, the people themselves choose hell by their own actions. Since they have freewill, they could easily have chosen not to commit those acts.

As for God knowing the future, this is true only in the sense that there is no time for God - past, present and future are the same. The only way he knows what you will do in the future is that he can see you doing it now - you still have freewill to do something else.

 

[Link]

Yes, I have created a question that I have been pondering about for many years which no Christian or Muslim could possibly answer if God is loving. Here is my question to those Muslims and Christians that strongly believe in their faiths.

Question:

Why would an omniscient and loving God knowingly create many people he knows he will one day throw into hell after they get done living out their lives?

Argument:

So, he creates a bunch of people he already knows will go to hell before they even die. What's the point? It's like setting up someone for failure from the very beginning for your own sadistic pleasure and the thrill of it! Why believe in such a God?

Thank you.

He doesn't know who is going to hell or not. And before creating this world, didn't know it would fall into majority going astray either. In fact, it was more probably no soul goes astray then any.

The souls he knows their path is straight are the chosen ones. They been chosen specifically to guide us because God tested all of us with his call before creating us in forms, and God knows the path of his chosen, but others are volatile, and where they will end up he doesn't know.

We are to a great degree already formed in that pre-world trial. We are volatile weak souls in need of example of God's chosen and being inspired by them and redeemed through their intercession and intervention.

God could've guaranteed guidance for every soul, but that would not a meaningful worship of God type world. He set up the trial so that Angels pass it. Iblis was an anomaly not meant to be. God is the best of planners and has back up plans, and plans for all plans against his plans.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Do they?
According to traditional theology, one goes to hell merely for not holding certain faith based beliefs that have no verifiable evidence. Regardless of how one lead ones life, how one treated others,... Doesn't matter at all. The sole "crime" was not being gullible.

Is not being gullible a good justification for eternal torment in your opinion?


And regardless of that obvious messed up thing....
Is there ANY finite crime with finite consequences which "deserves" an infinite punishment?
How do you justify such?



See? You are acknowledging it right there.
So "not being gullible" in your opinion is a justified reason for eternal torment.
Not believing something is a justified reason for eternal torment

Morally bankrupt much?



So it's not about morals at all.
It's about being a sycophant.

This is for a Muslim to answer.
But a Muslim, when answering such questions, shouldn't make up things. They should answer by quoting from Quran and Hadith. Nowadays there are many, who call themselves Muslim, but they invented some ideas that has nothing to do with original Islam.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

This is for a Muslim to answer.
But a Muslim, when answering such questions, shouldn't make up things. They should answer by quoting from Quran and Hadith. Nowadays there are many, who call themselves Muslim, but they invented some ideas that has nothing to do with original Islam.

The Quran speaks of those that are as Cattle.
Hell is connected to Cattle.


And We shall drive the sinners to Hell, like thirsty cattle driven down to water,- 19:86

Eat (for yourselves) and pasture your cattle: verily, in this are Signs for men endued with understanding. 20:54

Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path. 25:44

Verily Allah will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; while those who reject Allah will enjoy (this world) and eat as cattle eat; and the Fire will be their abode. 47:12

Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning). 7:179



The Quran clearly knows the difference between Cattle, Goats, and Sheep.

The Bible speaks of the Cattle, Goats, and Sheep Judgements.

"And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats". Ezekiel 34:17

Cattle - Goats - Sheep

Its another three position layer which overlaps with what I said earlier.

As Moses separated the sea, and Muhammad separated the moon, Jesus plucked the corn.

Level 1 - Level 2 - Level 3
Sea - River - Stream
Moon - Star - Sun
Corn - Oil - Wine

They were separating those of level one (Hell).

Science could prove there are cattle on the moon that Muhammad separated.

Cattle - Goats - Sheep
Moon - Star - Sun

 

[Comradio251]

He doesn't know who is going to hell or not. And before creating this world, didn't know it would fall into majority going astray either. In fact, it was more probably no soul goes astray then any.

Then you believe he's not omniscient. Because if he knows everything past, present and future he would know all of that.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, I have created a question that I have been pondering about for many years which no Christian or Muslim could possibly answer if God is loving. Here is my question to those Muslims and Christians that strongly believe in their faiths.

Question:

Why would an omniscient and loving God knowingly create many people he knows he will one day throw into hell after they get done living out their lives?

Argument:

So, he creates a bunch of people he already knows will go to hell before they even die. What's the point? It's like setting up someone for failure from the very beginning for your own sadistic pleasure and the thrill of it! Why believe in such a God?

Thank you.

I believe knowing does not mean intent. God is not willing for any to perish. That is in the Bible.

 

[Muffled]

Right.


Like when I stop you in the streets, put a gun to your head, command you to give me your wallet and then say "don't make me shoot you"

If you refuse to hand over your wallet and then get shot, then you in fact committed suicide. And that was "your choice".

I believe it is more like the person is holding a gun to his own head and God is saying : "Don't do it." but he does it anyway.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe it is more like the person is holding a gun to his own head and God is saying : "Don't do it." but he does it anyway.

That's obvious nonsense.

In the theology, god created hell. God judges people and sends them to hell.

Humans don't "choose" to go to hell any more then they "choose" to go to jail. Instead, they get thrown in.

 

[Link]

Then you believe he's not omniscient. Because if he knows everything past, present and future he would know all of that.

Okay. He knows all things possible to know it's impossible to know future of free-will. It's only possible to know if it's all forced from the start and free-will is an illusion.

God does not know how to create another god. That makes him "not omniscient" as well, since he doesn't know how do impossible things like that.

This is why such definitions are not that useful. God knows all things possible to know is a better definition.

 

[Anne1]

Yes, I have created a question that I have been pondering about for many years which no Christian or Muslim could possibly answer if God is loving. Here is my question to those Muslims and Christians that strongly believe in their faiths.

Question:

Why would an omniscient and loving God knowingly create many people he knows he will one day throw into hell after they get done living out their lives?

Argument:

So, he creates a bunch of people he already knows will go to hell before they even die. What's the point? It's like setting up someone for failure from the very beginning for your own sadistic pleasure and the thrill of it! Why believe in such a God?

Thank you.

This world is a test. Handy hint: pass the test.

 

[Ignatius A]

It's not knowing what "you" will choose to do in your life per se it's what God already chose for your ultimate end before you even know it. That's omniscience . There is no "free will" in that, just destiny. didnt choose a think for you

It's not knowing what "you" will choose to do in your life per se it's what God already chose for your ultimate end before you even know it. That's omniscience . There is no "free will" in that, just destiny.

God doesnt choose anything for anyone. What dont you get?

 

[sayak83]

God did not create that person. The parents of that person created that person.

It's good to know that in Abrahamic view God is not our creator, our parents are. This is great news. If God is indeed not my, or your creator, then He loses the moral right to sit in judgement of our actions or have any claim on us in general. Yay!

 

[Trailblazer]

If God is indeed not my, or your creator, then He loses the moral right to sit in judgement of our actions or have any claim on us in general. Yay!

No, not necessarily...
God did not literally create humans as the creation myth states but God is responsible for bringing humans into existence through the process of evolution. Without God there would be no evolution and no humans or any other life on earth.