The Problem of Evil, Messiah, and Wrath.

[Aupmanyav]

.. but did not personally direct me, neither did those taking the lead in the religion I was born in help me understand what to do with my life. I made my own choices. I didn't know whether to turn to the right or to the left, but some things were beyond my willingness to engage in. Not because of morals but because they just didn't strike me as right.

Parental or societal teaching is a subtle process. It does not begin with, 'Class, your attention please! ..'. Mores are ingrained by example. That has made you what you are today. We term it as 'Samskra' (Samskara (Indian philosophy) - Wikipedia).

"In Indian philosophy and Indian religions, samskaras or sanskaras are mental impressions, recollections, or psychological imprints. In Hindu philosophies, samskaras are a basis for the development of karma theory. .. In Pali it is referred to as Saṅkhāra."

 

[YoursTrue]

Parental or societal teaching is a subtle process. It does not begin with, 'Class, your attention please! ..'. Mores are ingrained by example. That has made you what you are today. We term it as 'Samskra' (Samskara (Indian philosophy) - Wikipedia).

"In Indian philosophy and Indian religions, samskaras or sanskaras are mental impressions, recollections, or psychological imprints. In Hindu philosophies, samskaras are a basis for the development of karma theory. .. In Pali it is referred to as Saṅkhāra."

As far as parental teaching goes, let's face it--some parents are thieves and con artists and by their example they can send their offspring down a not-so-good path. Unless you disagree of course.

 

[Aupmanyav]

As far as parental teaching goes, let's face it--some parents are thieves and con artists and by their example they can send their offspring down a not-so-good path. Unless you disagree of course.

No reaon to disagree, that happens in life; and it spoils many a lives. That is bad 'Samskara', bad up-bringing. But some in those conditions also turn out to be excellent people due to their other life-experiences. "Samskara' is the sum total of all experiences.

 

[YoursTrue]

"Ashtādasha puraneshu, Vyāsasya vachanam dvaya;
paropakāram punyāya, pāpāya parapīdanam."

(Of all that is written) In eighteen puranas, two sentences of Sage VedaVyasa (are the essence);
to help others is merit, to pain others is sin.

It is the rule of human societies and is eternal. It does not need a God to be decided.

So then why is it written in puranas if nothing is needed but one's conscience? Anyway, as the scripture goes, your god is not my God. So you enjoy your puranas as guides or no guides. whatever...(The world is in pretty bad shape unless you don't think so...)

 

[YoursTrue]

No reaon to disagree, that happens in life; and it spoils many a lives. That is bad 'Samskara', bad up-bringing. But some in those conditions also turn out to be excellent people due to their other life-experiences. "Samskara' is the sum total of all experiences.

Yeah well they hurt others and themselves as they experienced life without guidance; who knows? maybe they killed others, stole, committed adultery (not sure if that's ok by your way of life, not calling it religion) but hope the weather is good enough where you're at. Days are limited no matter what a person "believes in."

 

[YoursTrue]

No reaon to disagree, that happens in life; and it spoils many a lives. That is bad 'Samskara', bad up-bringing. But some in those conditions also turn out to be excellent people due to their other life-experiences. "Samskara' is the sum total of all experiences.

If someone steals from someone or takes something that doesn't belong to him maybe he thinks it doesn't hurt anyone -- hmm? and so God doesn't matter to him because he doesn't believe God exists or cares or tells him not to steal. What say you?

 

[YoursTrue]

I would not term a jail sentence in West as hard time, it is much better than what poor people in India get in their daily life. In some cases, we will term it as luxury (Norway for example). As far as my experience goes, time in jail does not make a criminal a better person. Most return to their criminal ways. Some times, crimes are hatched in jail and executed through the minions outside the jail. I would prefer punishment by death for such persons.

So then life experience is not always the way to a non-hurtful life, is it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So then why is it written in puranas if nothing is needed but one's conscience? Anyway, as the scripture goes, your god is not my God. So you enjoy your puranas as guides or no guides. whatever...(The world is in pretty bad shape unless you don't think so...)

One person's conscience may say one thing, the other person's may say something else (all people are not raised similarly), that is why the rules of society.
How many times do I need to repeat it - I do not believe existence of God or soul. The world is what it is. It has its own way and one has to adjust with it.

Yeah well they hurt others and themselves as they experienced life without guidance; who knows? maybe they killed others, stole, committed adultery (not sure if that's ok by your way of life, not calling it religion) but hope the weather is good enough where you're at. Days are limited no matter what a person "believes in."

Yeah, there are people like that, and it is quite unfortunate. No, what I have underlined is not good in my view. It is against 'dharma'. Speaking a lie is by far the biggest crime, IMHV. All crimes come after and with that. Though adultery too is against 'dharma', but it does not constitute a major crime as per my view.
Yeah, I agree with you. We get a limited sojourn in life, and there is no repeat.
Yeah, weather in Delhi is quite nice at the moment, sunny, 81F, pollution manageable, better on this Diwali day than it has ever been in 7 years.

If someone steals from someone or takes something that doesn't belong to him maybe he thinks it doesn't hurt anyone -- hmm? and so God doesn't matter to him because he doesn't believe God exists or cares or tells him not to steal. What say you?

I go by social rules, 'dharma'. Does 'dharma' permit it? No, it doe not. One can certainly make a request for something that one may be needing.

So then life experience is not always the way to a non-hurtful life, is it?

Yeah, there are things that can be forgiven and things that cannot be forgiven, IMHV. In the latter case, punishment is quite in order. Let us be practical.

 

[YoursTrue]

One person's conscience may say one thing, the other person's may say something else (all people are not raised similarly), that is why the rules of society.
How many times do I need to repeat it - I do not believe existence of God or soul. The world is what it is. It has its own way and one has to adjust with it. Yeah, there are people like that, and it is quite unfortunate. No, what I have underlined is not good in my view. It is against 'dharma'. Speaking a lie is by far the biggest crime, IMHV. All crimes come after and with that. Though adultery too is against 'dharma', but it does not constitute a major crime as per my view.
Yeah, I agree with you. We get a limited sojourn in life, and there is no repeat.
Yeah, weather in Delhi is quite nice at the moment, sunny, 81F, pollution manageable, better on this Diwali day than it has ever been in 7 years.
I go by social rules, 'dharma'. Does 'dharma' permit it? No, it doe not. One can certainly make a request for something that one may be needing.Yeah, there are things that can be forgiven and things that cannot be forgiven, IMHV. In the latter case, punishment is quite in order. Let us be practical.

Yes, one person's conscience may differ from another's. That's one reason why there are wars, murders, and other atrocities.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, that is life. No one can change it, not even the so-called prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis from so-called God/Allah.

 

[wellwisher]

Parental or societal teaching is a subtle process. It does not begin with, 'Class, your attention please! ..'. Mores are ingrained by example. That has made you what you are today. We term it as 'Samskra' (Samskara (Indian philosophy) - Wikipedia).

"In Indian philosophy and Indian religions, samskaras or sanskaras are mental impressions, recollections, or psychological imprints. In Hindu philosophies, samskaras are a basis for the development of karma theory. .. In Pali it is referred to as Saṅkhāra."

This is all connected to human language both spoken and written. Language creates a library of sounds and symbols that help us describe reality. Language is like a learned data base for a computer. What we are also taught, are like the commands lines for the CPU, it terms of how the brain will organize and then process this data; dogma and conventional wisdom of culture.

Human language is subjective in the sense any sound or noise can be used to describe anything if we all agree. There is no rule in language that says any new word has to sound exactly like the thing represented. The word lion is not ever said by a lion. Human made that up, but we all agree. There are over 7000 languages world wide. The matrix of language is not universal to all people, since each uses different sounds and symbols. The same processing, with different languages data bases, can create different meaning.

We have all met people who talk faster than they think. The unconscious mind, through these command lines of education; personal and collective, is moving language data about, for output; speak, often faster than the person can think, causing misunderstanding. The same is true of thinking under conditions of stress and competition and differing languages.

There is another universal language of the brain that is natural and rational. This is connected to our five senses. As an example, the sense of sight, converts photons and photon arrangements in space and time into a perception; visualization. This is not subjective, since it is how photons add up on the eyes for inout into the brain. This is part of our collective human nature and is more ancient than man made languages.

This data can also be processed, based on our common human DNA based CPU, common to all humans; human nature. This is part of the internal counter view to the matrix of subjective human languages; seeing is believing. The snake oil salesman can use language to paint a pretty picture that seems to add up, but still have hidden subjectivity; opinion. The natural language looks for cues, tells and creates internal visuals extrapolations to se the truth as is.

Many of the world's religious leaders sought this more truthful POV, but one also had to live in the world of man made language, where cause and affect is not always the casual. We will argue and debate since many of us sense the natural language, and how it sees the world, while still having to use manmade language to explain; lost in translation.

 

[Aupmanyav]

'.. where cause and affect is not always the casual.'

For me, that is a long ruminative post. I will pick just one sentence and reply. For me all things are because of a cause.