The Problem Of Bad Facts About Guns

[Revoltingest]

Just now on NPR, I heard the talking heads talk about how
the expiration in 2004 of Clinton's "Assault Weapon Ban" (1994)
resulted in increased school shootings. (NPR has long been in
the vanguard of pushing gun ban propaganda.)
Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia

There are a couple non-factual assumptions here.
1) The ban didn't affect any assault weapons (which are
select fire, ie, capable of semi or full auto operation).
It was limited to covering only semi auto guns.
2) The ban didn't ban any look-alikes that already existed.
They were just as easy & legal to own as before.
3) The ban imposed only insignificant regulations on
guns manufactured after Sept 13, 1994.
4) Manufacturers ramped up production greatly before
this date to meet the newly increased demand.
5) There's no evidence that the 1994 law had any
significant effect on crime.
Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia

This thread is not for arguing about what should or shouldn't be done.
It's about giving factoids the boot, & dealing with actual facts.
But figuring what to do should be based upon solid info.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...
But figuring what to do should be based upon solid info.

Doesn't solve anything, because nothing follows as to an ought from a fact. Remember you know that there are no objective morality.

We ought to figure out what to do as based upon solid info. And then I ask for evidence for that ought as a fact, and we are dead in the water.

 

[Orbit]

The case of Australia (facts from an interview):

"....But, basically, the laws became pretty much uniform across the country. And as part — as you mentioned earlier, as part of that, the ban on semiautomatics, those guns were bought back, so they’re no longer in circulation. And because the law changed at the same time, those — like, sometimes there are buybacks, but the law doesn’t change, so it’s kind of like just mopping the floor while the tap is still on. If you change the law at the same time, then those guns cannot be immediately replaced with similar weapons.

And really, the result has been a spectacular success. We didn’t have another mass shooting incident for almost 25 years. And we just generally have much lower rates of gun violence, and also a lower rate of fear. You know, we don’t think at all about the possibility of being murdered as we go about our daily lives in Australia."

“Enough Was Enough”: How Australia Reformed Its Gun Laws & Ended Mass Shootings After 1996 Massacre | Democracy Now!

 

[F1fan]

The manufacturers charged the design of stocks to get around the ban (a loophole), so these rifles were still available. I suspect there was some lag in availability given the ban, so that could account for lower crime using these guns. More bought them and locked them away until the heat was off.

 

[Revoltingest]

Doesn't solve anything...

Duh!
I don't expect facts by themselves to solve anything.
But actual facts (as opposed to fake ones) are useful
when one applies reasoning to achieve one's goals.

 

[Revoltingest]

The manufacturers charged the design of stocks to get around the ban (a loophole), so these rifles were still available. I suspect there was some lag in availability given the ban, so that could account for lower crime using these guns. More bought them and locked them away until the heat was off.

There was no lag in availability because production
increased as soon as the ban passed. However,
demand increased more than did availability, so
many affected guns rose in price. (That's why I
sold my Ruger Mini 14....money, money, money!)

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Duh!
I don't expect facts by themselves to solve anything.
But actual facts (as opposed to fake ones) are useful
when one applies reasoning to achieve one's goals.

In your belief system of useful, reasoning and goals. But you also claim that we should listen to the other side, remember!!! So start listening to the other side as you preach the rest of us ought to do.

 

[Revoltingest]

In your belief system of useful, reasoning and goals. But you also claim that we should listen to the other side, remember!!! So start listening to the other side as you preach the rest of us ought to do.

You should read my posts before you respond to them.
Let's stick to discussion of solid facts relating to gun issues.
This thread is not about me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You should read my posts before you respond to them.
Let's stick to discussion of solid facts relating to gun issues.
This thread is not about me.

But that we should as you claimed is not a fact. I am just pointing out that you do 2 things. What we ought and what is facts. Those are not the same. And it is not a fact, what we should as you use it.
That is all.

 

[joe1776]

Blame the profit motive.

In the District of Columbia in the 1950s, a law was enacted banning switchblade knives which were, at the time, the most dangerous weapon on the streets. Then technological advances produced better handguns and automatic rifles. The profit motive drove the manufacturers to back the NRA in a successful lobbying effort to block legislation to keep guns off the street.

In D.C. today, you can legally own and carry an assault rifle, but it's still against the law to own and carry a switchblade knife. There's just not enough profit in manufacturing them.

 

[Revoltingest]

But...

Nothing good ever starts out thus.

 

[Revoltingest]

Blame the profit motive.

In the District of Columbia in the 1950s, a law was enacted banning switchblade knives which were, at the time, the most dangerous weapon on the streets. Then technological advances produced better handguns and automatic rifles. The profit motive drove the manufacturers to back the NRA in a successful lobbying effort to block legislation to keep guns off the street.

In D.C. today, you can legally own and carry an assault rifle, but it's still against the law to own and carry a switchblade knife. There's just not enough profit in manufacturing them.

Have any links about this?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Nothing good ever starts out thus.

Is that a fact?

 

[Secret Chief]

The case of Australia (facts from an interview):

"....But, basically, the laws became pretty much uniform across the country. And as part — as you mentioned earlier, as part of that, the ban on semiautomatics, those guns were bought back, so they’re no longer in circulation. And because the law changed at the same time, those — like, sometimes there are buybacks, but the law doesn’t change, so it’s kind of like just mopping the floor while the tap is still on. If you change the law at the same time, then those guns cannot be immediately replaced with similar weapons.

And really, the result has been a spectacular success. We didn’t have another mass shooting incident for almost 25 years. And we just generally have much lower rates of gun violence, and also a lower rate of fear. You know, we don’t think at all about the possibility of being murdered as we go about our daily lives in Australia."

“Enough Was Enough”: How Australia Reformed Its Gun Laws & Ended Mass Shootings After 1996 Massacre | Democracy Now!

Yes, but you should know that Australia is actually a communist totalitarian authoritarian oppressive dictatorship with no freedom or individuality. OK, so there's less dead people, but that's not really the point is it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, but you should know that Australia is actually a communist totalitarian authoritarian oppressive dictatorship with no freedom or individuality. OK, so there's less dead people, but that's not really the point is it.

Have anything useful too?

 

[Twilight Hue]

The case of Australia (facts from an interview):

"....But, basically, the laws became pretty much uniform across the country. And as part — as you mentioned earlier, as part of that, the ban on semiautomatics, those guns were bought back, so they’re no longer in circulation. And because the law changed at the same time, those — like, sometimes there are buybacks, but the law doesn’t change, so it’s kind of like just mopping the floor while the tap is still on. If you change the law at the same time, then those guns cannot be immediately replaced with similar weapons.

And really, the result has been a spectacular success. We didn’t have another mass shooting incident for almost 25 years. And we just generally have much lower rates of gun violence, and also a lower rate of fear. You know, we don’t think at all about the possibility of being murdered as we go about our daily lives in Australia."

“Enough Was Enough”: How Australia Reformed Its Gun Laws & Ended Mass Shootings After 1996 Massacre | Democracy Now!

Ended? Is that an ironclad guarantee?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Have anything useful too?

It is useful, because one of the factors in these debates are different evaluations of what freedom is. And what freedom is, is not a fact.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ended? Is that an ironclad guarantee?

No, it is a probability and as long as they say as North Korea, it will work. Your game is simple.
Your understanding as you don't have to consider any other. That is one mark of being authoritarian BTW.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some good basic info about guns....
Semi-Automatic Vs Automatic Firearms | What’s The Difference? | AGA

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, it is a probability and as long as they say as North Korea, it will work. Your game is simple.
Your understanding as you don't have to consider any other. That is one mark of being authoritarian BTW.

That's not the way the article sounded.