The Post Religious Desert

[Treasure Hunter]

For those who grew up in and felt stifled by a religious upbringing, the courage to break free of it is admirable. The willingness to sacrifice what’s known and familiar for a higher form of truth and meaning is commendable.

However, there is a deception that comes with this freedom from an oppressive belief system. It’s the illusion that breaking free of your religious upbringing means you will step into paradise.

For many, they are never able to overcome this deception. They wonder why their freedom hasn’t fulfilled them and conclude it must because they are not fully free in actuality. So they spend too much of their lives backward facing, throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems. Still, there is little meaning to be derived from this since they lack power and influence.

The truth is that life only gets more difficult after freeing yourself from your oppressive religious upbringing. Realizing this truth requires you to resign yourself to the reality check which says that you didn’t free yourself into paradise. Instead, you entered into a desert. Moreover, a consequence of this realization is that it wasn’t just the oppressive religious upbringing impeding your joy and fulfillment; there is a deeper problem to address..

 

[Heyo]

For those who grew up in and felt stifled by a religious upbringing, the courage to break free of it is admirable. The willingness to sacrifice what’s known and familiar for a higher form of truth and meaning is commendable.

However, there is a deception that comes with this freedom from an oppressive belief system. It’s the illusion that breaking free of your religious upbringing means you will step into paradise.

For many, they are never able to overcome this deception. They wonder why their freedom hasn’t fulfilled them and conclude it must because they are not fully free in actuality. So they spend too much of their lives backward facing, throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems. Still, there is little meaning to be derived from this since they lack power and influence.

The truth is that life only gets more difficult after freeing yourself from your oppressive religious upbringing. Realizing this truth requires you to resign yourself to the reality check which says that you didn’t free yourself into paradise. Instead, you entered into a desert. Moreover, a consequence of this realization is that it wasn’t just the oppressive religious upbringing impeding your joy and fulfillment; there is a deeper problem to address..

Freedom is the ability and duty to think for yourself.

 

[Twilight Hue]

For those who grew up in and felt stifled by a religious upbringing, the courage to break free of it is admirable. The willingness to sacrifice what’s known and familiar for a higher form of truth and meaning is commendable.

However, there is a deception that comes with this freedom from an oppressive belief system. It’s the illusion that breaking free of your religious upbringing means you will step into paradise.

For many, they are never able to overcome this deception. They wonder why their freedom hasn’t fulfilled them and conclude it must because they are not fully free in actuality. So they spend too much of their lives backward facing, throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems. Still, there is little meaning to be derived from this since they lack power and influence.

The truth is that life only gets more difficult after freeing yourself from your oppressive religious upbringing. Realizing this truth requires you to resign yourself to the reality check which says that you didn’t free yourself into paradise. Instead, you entered into a desert. Moreover, a consequence of this realization is that it wasn’t just the oppressive religious upbringing impeding your joy and fulfillment; there is a deeper problem to address..

I actually find the elimination of relying on a questionable and unsubstantiated protector and enabler of extended life doesn't make any difference in the real world and circumstances we already live in, in terms of difficulty and challenge that was and is already present from the offset.

I view it is more akin with taking in a breath of fresh air as the fantastical and nonsensical is properly set aside, which actually helps improve my focus in addressing the challenges and difficulties that I face in this life.

You could metaphorically view it as cleaning one's windshield, or eyeglasses in order to see better by removing obstructions that has nothing to do with one's current real life situation and circumstances.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For those who grew up in and felt stifled by a religious upbringing, the courage to break free of it is admirable. The willingness to sacrifice what’s known and familiar for a higher form of truth and meaning is commendable.

However, there is a deception that comes with this freedom from an oppressive belief system. It’s the illusion that breaking free of your religious upbringing means you will step into paradise.

For many, they are never able to overcome this deception. They wonder why their freedom hasn’t fulfilled them and conclude it must because they are not fully free in actuality. So they spend too much of their lives backward facing, throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems. Still, there is little meaning to be derived from this since they lack power and influence.

The truth is that life only gets more difficult after freeing yourself from your oppressive religious upbringing. Realizing this truth requires you to resign yourself to the reality check which says that you didn’t free yourself into paradise. Instead, you entered into a desert. Moreover, a consequence of this realization is that it wasn’t just the oppressive religious upbringing impeding your joy and fulfillment; there is a deeper problem to address..

Why doesn't that match what I've been through and would say? Life got more difficult? When?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Why doesn't that match what I've been through and would say? Life got more difficult? When?

The path of least resistance is not more difficult, but it’s not engaging with life.

 

[PureX]

For those who grew up in and felt stifled by a religious upbringing, the courage to break free of it is admirable. The willingness to sacrifice what’s known and familiar for a higher form of truth and meaning is commendable.

However, there is a deception that comes with this freedom from an oppressive belief system. It’s the illusion that breaking free of your religious upbringing means you will step into paradise.

For many, they are never able to overcome this deception. They wonder why their freedom hasn’t fulfilled them and conclude it must because they are not fully free in actuality. So they spend too much of their lives backward facing, throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems. Still, there is little meaning to be derived from this since they lack power and influence.

The truth is that life only gets more difficult after freeing yourself from your oppressive religious upbringing. Realizing this truth requires you to resign yourself to the reality check which says that you didn’t free yourself into paradise. Instead, you entered into a desert. Moreover, a consequence of this realization is that it wasn’t just the oppressive religious upbringing impeding your joy and fulfillment; there is a deeper problem to address..

It's not nearly as difficult as all that.

At some point these folks just have to forgive their tormentors, so they can move on. Not for the sake of the tormentors, but for their own sake. And in doing that they can also forgive themselves, because often times people that have been victiized come to feel it was somehow their own fault. Or their own doing, ... because they went along with it. But in truth none of that matters. What matters is where we are now, and what we choose to do with it. If we humans were perfect, we wouldn't need forgiven, or to forgive. But we aren't, and we never will be. So we do need to forgive and to be forgiven in turn. And it's easy once we can see this, truly and clearly. And after that gift of forgiveness we are free to love without fear or expectation. And that really is a wonderful thing. A wonderful new way to live a life.

 

[Alien826]

For those who grew up in and felt stifled by a religious upbringing, the courage to break free of it is admirable. The willingness to sacrifice what’s known and familiar for a higher form of truth and meaning is commendable.

However, there is a deception that comes with this freedom from an oppressive belief system. It’s the illusion that breaking free of your religious upbringing means you will step into paradise.

For many, they are never able to overcome this deception. They wonder why their freedom hasn’t fulfilled them and conclude it must because they are not fully free in actuality. So they spend too much of their lives backward facing, throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems. Still, there is little meaning to be derived from this since they lack power and influence.

The truth is that life only gets more difficult after freeing yourself from your oppressive religious upbringing. Realizing this truth requires you to resign yourself to the reality check which says that you didn’t free yourself into paradise. Instead, you entered into a desert. Moreover, a consequence of this realization is that it wasn’t just the oppressive religious upbringing impeding your joy and fulfillment; there is a deeper problem to address..

I can think of a few reasons that might happen.

Having become used to living under a strict set of rules, having to decide such things for oneself might be, to say the least, unsettling. A good comparison would be the problems that released long term prisoners face in adapting to life outside prison.

Having lost what is essentially an extended family, finding or building a replacement might be difficult.

The guilt over rejecting the previously accepted reality won't magically go away.

None of these suggests any particular expectation of "joy or fulfillment" nor a "deeper problem", though such may exist.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

And in doing that they can also forgive themselves, because often times people that have been victiized come to feel it was somehow their own fault.

When we feel we’ve been led astray, we feel betrayed by other people but also by our ability to recognize the truth. On the one hand, this causes us to learn the value of boundaries. On the other hand, those boundaries can be stifling and eventually turn into a type of prison. Forgiveness in both directions helps to prevent the over-correcting pull back that stunts development.

You can easily spot the anti-theist types who are stifled and stuck due to the unwillingness to forgive from the heart. It’s a faith move to forgive in this way, meaning the value won’t be recognized until after it’s done. The biggest stumbling block is the idea that you are condoning the oppression you experienced, and by condoning you, you’re opening yourself to be victimized by it again in the future.

It’s important to untangle accepting it from condoning it, while at the same time realizing they can’t be completely untangled. Accepting it will always have a little bit of condoning it, just like how a little bit of the virus is in the inoculation. This is why accepting and forgiving is a faith move.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The path of least resistance is not more difficult, but it’s not engaging with life.

Sounds more like you just want to judge people.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Sounds more like you just want to judge people.

I believe in the universality of the soul and moral truth. Still, it’s good for me to be reminded from time to time to tone it down.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I believe in the universality of the soul and moral truth. Still, it’s good for me to be reminded from time to time to tone it down.

Toning it down is what I do with my mouth here and at work.
What you need is a new outlook that doesn't wholesale dismiss apostates as decieved and having a harder life they aren't engaging in.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

For those who grew up in and felt stifled by a religious upbringing, the courage to break free of it is admirable. The willingness to sacrifice what’s known and familiar for a higher form of truth and meaning is commendable.

However, there is a deception that comes with this freedom from an oppressive belief system. It’s the illusion that breaking free of your religious upbringing means you will step into paradise.

For many, they are never able to overcome this deception. They wonder why their freedom hasn’t fulfilled them and conclude it must because they are not fully free in actuality. So they spend too much of their lives backward facing, throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems. Still, there is little meaning to be derived from this since they lack power and influence.

The truth is that life only gets more difficult after freeing yourself from your oppressive religious upbringing. Realizing this truth requires you to resign yourself to the reality check which says that you didn’t free yourself into paradise. Instead, you entered into a desert. Moreover, a consequence of this realization is that it wasn’t just the oppressive religious upbringing impeding your joy and fulfillment; there is a deeper problem to address..

I actually agree with this. Being a cool, smart atheist is fun and exciting for an 18 year old kid who feels immortal and wants to be free from religious restrictions. But it's not so much fun when you're in horrific pain and shaking with fear or staring death in the face and trying to cling to some kind of lasting hope. But none of this is relevant--what's true is true and what's false is false, and that's it; how it makes us feel has no bearing whatsoever on reality.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

But none of this is relevant--what's true is true and what's false is false, and that's it; how it makes us feel has no bearing whatsoever on reality.

I go back to the importance of not losing trust in your instinct for truth. Otherwise, truth is something we have to grasp onto and can only be accessed through the grip of the rational intellect.

This is what it means to “let go” and relinquish that compulsion for control, especially after experiencing betrayal in the past.

 

[Ella S.]

I don't think that we can ever spend too much time "throwing stones at oppressive religious belief systems." As long as they exist, they have to be opposed. They might not be abolished over night, but the more we chip away at them, the more people can realize what's going on and make better informed decisions.

Until all such oppressive systems are emptied entirely of their followers, there will always be a duty and a responsibility to challenge them.

Other than that, I agree. Truth isn't necessarily paradise. I've been dealing with existential depression and I've come to find out that it's common among former gifted kids and people with genius level or above IQs, and I fall into both camps. After deconversion, it feels like my life is now co-written by Franz Kafka and HP Lovecraft, you know? Reality is bleak, and it's easy to go mad from the revelation.

But I believe that we have an obligation to the truth. We don't get to just lay down and let falsehood roam unchallenged. No matter how hard that truth is, a difficult truth has value that no comforting lie can. Life is hard, but it's important, too.

 

[Ella S.]

I can think of a few reasons that might happen.

Having become used to living under a strict set of rules, having to decide such things for oneself might be, to say the least, unsettling. A good comparison would be the problems that released long term prisoners face in adapting to life outside prison.

Having lost what is essentially an extended family, finding or building a replacement might be difficult.

The guilt over rejecting the previously accepted reality won't magically go away.

None of these suggests any particular expectation of "joy or fulfillment" nor a "deeper problem", though such may exist.

For me, it's losing the belief that good will eventually win in the end and that everything that seems to be bad is actually a part of some greater plan for good. It's realizing that we are not unified in substance, there are no benevolent, powerful beings that intervene to give us a helping hand, reward us for overcoming our obstacles, or listen to us when we need an ear. We're on our own with our problems, the future is at constant risk, and, in the real world, evil triumphs over good more often than not.

I realize that most people who grew up nonreligious have a kind of suppressive defense mechanism built up where they simply don't think about these things very often. They might avoid the subjects when they come up. If they do address them, even secular people have a bunch of "bologna" they tell themselves to make themselves feel better, like the confidence bias, regression to the mean, "bad stuff happens to other people," "we can create our own meaning," etc. Just these relentless lies they use to gaslight themselves into thinking they're happy.

I can't do that, though. When my religious worldview crumbled, it took everything with it. My epistemology, my understanding of who is trustworthy, my relationships with other people. Everything collapsed. As I built it back up from the rubble, I couldn't put those lies back in any more than I could return to a belief in the Resurrection of Jesus. It's too transparent to me now.

Have you heard of Thomas Ligotti? I think he captures the predicament well.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

@Ella S.
I think existential depression seems to be more common among people with high IQ because they’re able to articulate it better, but it’s actually pretty widespread.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

For me, it's losing the belief that good will eventually win in the end and that everything that seems to be bad is actually a part of some greater plan for good. It's realizing that we are not unified in substance, there are no benevolent, powerful beings that intervene to give us a helping hand, reward us for overcoming our obstacles, or listen to us when we need an ear. We're on our own with our problems, the future is at constant risk, and, in the real world, evil triumphs over good more often than not.

I realize that most people who grew up nonreligious have a kind of suppressive defense mechanism built up where they simply don't think about these things very often. They might avoid the subjects when they come up. If they do address them, even secular people have a bunch of BS they tell themselves to make themselves feel better, like the confidence bias, regression to the mean, "bad stuff happens to other people," "we can create our own meaning," etc. Just these relentless lies they use to gaslight themselves into thinking they're happy.

I can't do that, though. When my religious worldview crumbled, it took everything with it. My epistemology, my understanding of who is trustworthy, my relationships with other people. Everything collapsed. As I built it back up from the rubble, I couldn't put those lies back in any more than I could return to a belief in the Resurrection of Jesus. It's too transparent to me now.

Have you heard of Thomas Ligotti? I think he captures the predicament well.

I know you probably don’t want to hear this now, but the story of Christ includes where you are currently which is the place of the orphan.

 

[Ella S.]

@Ella S.
I think existential depression seems to be more common among people with high IQ because they’re able to articulate it better, but it’s actually pretty widespread.

That was my impression when I first heard about it, too. Those groups are simply the highest at risk. I think they might also be the hardest to treat.

I think those groups have it particularly rough because they have a hard time with the usual therapeutic approaches to treating the issue, which is essentially to lie to the client and try to trick them into feeling like their life has more meaning than it really does. I see this with psychedelic treatments in particular, where people begin to feel connected to the universe in a supernatural, mystical way that doesn't really have much of a basis in empirical evidence.

The criticality makes treatment more or less impossible. I'm at least able to function, partially out of habit, but I'm probably going to at least be brooding and angsty for the rest of my life. At least it fits my gothic aesthetic, I guess.

 

[Ella S.]

I know you probably don’t want to hear this now, but the story of Christ includes where you are currently which is the place of the orphan.

Do you take recovering alcoholics to bars, too? Coming back to this site was a mistake. Here I am, fighting against the ugly truth when I should be coming to terms with it. It took you offering the metaphorical drug for me to snap out of my senses and realize what I'm doing.

Aron Ra is right. Religion is basically an addiction. I'm freeing myself of it now. I hope you can some day, too. The withdrawal sucks, but at least it's real.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Do you take recovering alcoholics to bars, too? Coming back to this site was a mistake. Here I am, fighting against the ugly truth when I should be coming to terms with it. It took you offering the metaphorical drug for me to snap out of my senses and realize what I'm doing.

Aron Ra is right. Religion is basically an addiction. I'm freeing myself of it now. I hope you can some day, too. The withdrawal sucks, but at least it's real.

Message received. I think dark, sad songs are your best bet right now.