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Featured The New Man

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by usfan, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Many ideologies rely on the concept of a 'New Man.' The flaws in the old man.. corruption, greed, & cruelty.. are repaired in the New Man. Marx counted on it. Lenin promoted it. Che Guevara preached it. Many more have practiced it.

    With all utopias, a new man is crucial to it's success & founding. Marx believed a scientific evolution was possible with man. He felt that man could become altruistic, & live for the common good, if the selfish negatives of religion & capitalism were ended. Plenty of followers tried to implement his ideals.

    You must, therefore, confess that by "individual" you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible. ~Karl Marx

    Lenin, Stalin, Mao, & many others literally tried to 'sweep the bourgeois out of the way.' But no matter how many imperfect men they killed, who did not measure up to the party standards, every generation made more of the same. They were not evolving into the new Soviet Man.

    Seventy years ago communists easily (and, as it turned out, for a long time) seized power in Russia. Without hesitation they undertook to build a new society, hitherto unprecedented in the history of mankind, and announced the construction of Communism throughout the whole world to be their final goal.
    In this society there was to be no private property, it was to be a-religious: denying God, denying the existence of the immortal soul and recognizing only the material aspect of life as real. The society was to be free of ethnic affiliations, and communists were to have unlimited power over that society.
    Unprecedented methods were used to build this unprecedented society. It was decided to create a new man. This man was to be free from ethnic affiliations, see no sense in private property, be always ready to sacrifice himself for the benefit of society, have no doubts that he originated from an ape or something like it (certainly from a beast) and that nothing will remain of him after his death. In other words, he was to be a one-hundred percent materialist and atheist and must know that the meaning of life is in the person's usefulness to society and the supreme goal is in a better, wealthy and happy life of future generations. Recognizing this, he would necessarily be happy.
    It was obvious to initiators of the new society and creators of the new man that several existing classes of people would delay the implementation of this task. So, it was decided to destroy millions of these people "as a class ," i.e., to kill them. To "destroy as a class" is not just a reckless cynical phrase; in fact, it is a guide to practical action. This was done in Russia, and in this way began construction of the new society in every country as soon as the communists seized power. ~Sergei Khodorovich, 1987

    Russia worked on a 'New Soviet Man' for over 70 years. Did they make one? Indeed. But it was not as intended. Instead of being altruistic & sacrificing for the whole, they were selfish & lazy, stealing from work & unproductive.

    To build communism it is necessary, simultaneous with the new material foundations, to build the new man and woman. ~Che Guevara

    Revolutionaries will come who will sing the song of the new man and woman in the true voice of the people.
    A new generation is being born. The party is a vanguard organization. It is made up of the best workers, who are proposed for membership by their fellow workers. It is a minority, but it has great authority because of the quality of its cadres. Our aspiration is for the party to become a mass party, but only when the masses have reached the level of the vanguard, that is, when they are educated for communism. ~Che Guevara

    Che was very committed to the 'New Man'. He felt the loose morals in cuba were the fault of capitalism, & sought to purge that from the people. He eliminated a lot of revolutionaries in his quest for this 'new man'.

    Not an atom remains of the New Man that Che Guevara dreamed of. Almost all Cubans steal whatever they can at work, from a straw to a piece of paper. When someone begins a new job, he is not interested in how much his salary will be, only in how much he can steal...
    No one remembers the New Man, nor the stupidities advocated by social engineers like Che Guevara. The supposed New Men are in the lines outside the Spanish Consulate or the U.S. Special Interests Section, crazy about leaving.~Ivan Garcia

    And in Cambodia, under Khmer Rouge, an estimated 3 million people died under forced relocation & purging of the 'corrupt man'. In a nation of 7 million, nearly half died. What did the social engineers think of that?

    "As long as we have one million left, that will be enough to make the new man." ~Ieng Sary, foreign minister under Khmer Rouge


    Even Hitler wanted to breed a 'master race' that would be perfect & communally altruistic, sacrificing themselves for the reich.

    National socialism is the determination to create a new man. There will no longer exist anyindividual arbitrary will, nor realms in which the individual belongs to himself. The time of happiness as a private matter is over. ~Adolf Hitler


    But the more man is told he must change, or is pushed to evolve, the more he stays the same.
    This is the problem with ideologies dependent on a 'new man'. They do not work with real man. They do not take into account the realities of humanity. They are fantasy imaginations of humanity, with no basis in reality.

    The savior who wants to turn men into angels is as much a hater of human nature as the totalitarian despot who wants to turn them into puppets. ~Eric Hoffer
     
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  2. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus' ideology was also based on a 'new man'.. 'You must be born again', was how He presented it. The big difference is that Jesus saw it as an inward conversion, rather than an outward mandate, or a socially engineered process.
     
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  3. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    A daft ideology, imo, which probably had nothing to do with Jesus but was created by authors well after he was dead.
     
  4. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    the book......Animal Farm comes to mind
     
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  5. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    When Jesus spoke of being born again, it has reference to being born from the dead, because flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God.

    The idea of being a 'new man' refers to being in Christ and mortifying the deeds of the flesh and walking in the spirit. If you love Christ keep his commands, he said.
     
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  6. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. That was my point, to contrast the 'spiritual' rebirth, with the Marxist mandate, which is an attempt to use social engineering (under the soothing label of, 'science!') to usher in a Utopia.

    The 'new man' in Jesus's teachings is a mystical transcendence.. a spiritual transaction between the lost human and his Creator. The 'new man' in Marxism is an evolved, utilitarian fantasy, to enable the elite to get out of work. It is based on the assumption of a godless universe.. materialism only.

    There has never been but one question in all civilization-how to keep a few men from saying to many men: You work and earn bread and we will eat it. ~Abraham Lincoln
     
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  7. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    ..your opinion, which is not true, anyway. But, everybody gotta believe something! ;)
     
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  8. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    Jesus levels the playing field! The Scripture concludes ALL under sin. And anyone who thinks himself better than anyone else is self deceived.
     
  9. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Tyrants are tyrants regardless of their other ideologies.

    For example, it was oppression under right-winger Batista in Cuba that led to Castro literally walking into Havana unopposed.
     
  10. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    I think humans have changed over the centuries, whether anyone tries to intentionally change them or not.

    The "old man" lived in a more primitive society under primitive conditions, when compared to what we live in today. Indeed, I think most of the ideologies we're looking at today are/were attempts at man trying to adjust to and find his place after the Industrial Revolution, which itself was "new" and created new challenges that humans never really had to face before.

    Through most of human history, most people had been living in agrarian village societies - far different than the cities which grew up during the growth of industrialism, which itself brought about many "new" things that society had to contend with.

    One of the problems was that the leaders and other aristocrats believed that they could still run an emerging industrial society in the same exact way that feudal lords ran their agrarian fiefdoms. This seems to be the prevailing view which led to the Metternich system in Europe, which came about after the Napoleonic Wars, yet collapsed due the Revolutions of 1848.

    This is another aspect of human nature which has to be acknowledged. That is, if you treat enough people badly enough in any given society, sooner or later they will rise up and revolt. They don't necessarily have to believe in Marxism or socialism, but they will make their displeasure known just the same. Nationalism was also on the rise during this period.

    Oddly enough, some of the earliest forerunners of socialism were not peasants or revolutionaries at all, but established monarchists, such as Napoleon III and Bismarck, who believed in social programs and better living conditions for their own citizens, yet were also nationalistic in their aspirations for a great empire.

    The "new man" in their eyes was a hard-working patriot with unquestioned loyalty to the nation-state, one who would be ready to make the supreme sacrifice for their nation and people. In America it was slightly different in that we extolled the pioneers and frontiersmen who went out to settle and develop newly acquired territories. In our historical mythos, we often speak of the "rugged individualist" and hearken to the days of the Old West where men had to rely on their wits, skills, strength, and stamina in order to survive and thrive in a new and unfamiliar land.

    The "old man" - the landless, superstitious serf who believed that their monarch was divine and that they must blindly and quietly accept their lot in life as "God's will" - that man was gone forever in Western society. The liberal democratic (in the traditional historical sense) societies were removing the shackles and chains which kept monarchistic societies stagnant for centuries. This is where modern ideas of capitalism actually come from - from the ideals of "liberal democracy" that so many capitalists and conservatives rail against these days.

    Whether anyone cares to admit it or not, capitalism, socialism, and nationalism are different branches from the same tree. They all eschewed and rejected the "old man" in favor of a newer ideal.
     
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  11. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Meet the new Boss..
    ..same as the old Boss..

    It would be nice, if 'we won't get fooled again!', but that is not the MO of humanity. Instead, we are caught in a circle or repetition.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. ~George Santayana
     
  12. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    How on earth can you 'love' someone who is more than likely long dead, when you have never met them in person? :rolleyes:
     
  13. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    The sin which so easily besets us is that of unbelief.

    The Jewish people had trouble loving their God because he was not visible to them. They wanted a king they could actually see leading them into battle. They have been paying for that decision ever since. And are not through paying for it.
     
  14. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    Commandments of Christ
    1. Love your enemies; do good to them that hate you. -Matt. 5:44.
    2. Resist not evil; if a man smite thee on one cheek, turn to him the other also. -Matt. 5:39, 40.
    3. Avenge not yourselves; rather give place unto wrath; and suffer yourselves to be defrauded. -Rom. 12:18, 19.
    4. If a man take away thy goods, ask them not again. -Luke 6:29, 30.
    5. Agree with your adversary quickly, submitting even to wrong for the sake of peace. -Matt. 5:25; 1 Cor. 6:7.
    6. Labor not to be rich; be ready to every good work; give to those who ask; relieve the afflicted. -Rom. 12:13; 1 Tim. 6:8; Heb. 13:16; James 1:27.
    7. Do not your alms before men: Let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth. -Matt. 6:1-4.
    8. Recompense to no man evil for evil: overcome evil with good. -Rom. 12:17.
    9. Bless them that curse you; let no cursing come out of your mouth. -Matt. 5:44; Rom. 12:14.
    10. Render not evil for evil; overcome evil with good. -Rom 12:17.
    11. Pray for them that despitefully use you and afflict you -Matt. 5:44.
    12. Grudge not; judge not; complain not; condemn not. -Matt. 7:1; James 5:9.
    13. Put away anger, wrath, bitterness, and all evil speaking. -Eph. 4:31; 1 Pet. 2:1.
    14. Confess your faults one to another. -James 5:16.
    15. Be not conformed to this world: love not the world. -Rom. 12:2; 1 John 2:15.
    16. Deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts. If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off. -Matt. 5:30; Titus 2:13.
    17. Servants, be faithful, even to bad masters. -Eph. 6:5-8.
    18. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. -Rom. 12:16.
    19. Owe no man anything. -Rom. 13:7,8.
    20. In case of sin (known or heard of) speak not of it to others, but tell the offending brother of the matter between thee and him alone, with a view to recovery. -Matt. 18:15; Gal. 6:1.
    21. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart. -Matt. 22:37.
    22. Pray always; pray with brevity and simplicity; pray secretly. -Matt. 6:5-7; Luke 18:1.
    23. In everything give thanks to God and recognize Him in all your ways. -Prov. 3:6; Eph. 5:20.
    24. As you would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them. -Matt. 7:12.
    25. Take Christ for an example and follow in his steps. -1 Pet. 2:21.
    26. Let Christ dwell in your heart by faith. -Eph. 3:17.
    27. Esteem Christ more highly than all earthly things; yea, than your own life. -Luke 14:26.
    28. Confess Christ freely before men. -Luke 12:8.
    29. Beware lest the cares of life or the allurements of pleasure weaken his hold on your heart. -Luke 21:34.
    30. Love thy neighbor as thyself. -Matt. 22:39.
    31. Exercise lordship over no one. -Matt. 23:11.
    32. Seek not your own welfare only, nor bear your own burdens merely, but have regard to those of others. -Gal. 6:2; Phil. 2:4.
    33. Let your light shine before men; hold forth the word of life. Do good to all men as ye have opportunity .-Matt. 5:16; Gal. 6:10; Phil. 2:16.
    34. Be blameless and harmless, as the sons of God in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation. -Phil. 2:15.
    35. Be gentile, meek, kind-hearted, compassionate, merciful, forgiving. -Eph. 4:32; 2 Tim. 2:24; Titus 2:2.
    36. Be sober, grave, sincere, temperate. -Phil. 4:5; 1 Pet. 1:13; 5:8.
    37. Speak the truth every man with his neighbor; put away all lying. -Eph. 4:25.
    38. Whatsoever ye do, do it heartily as unto the Lord, and not unto men. -Col. 3:23.
    39. Be watchful, vigilant, brave, joyful, courteous, and manly. -1 Cor. 16:13; Phil. 4:4; 1 Thess. 5:6-10.
    40. Be clothed with humility; be patient toward all. -Rom. 12:12; Col. 3:12 .
    41. Follow peace with all men. -Heb. 12:14.
    42. Sympathize in the joys and sorrows of others. -Rom. 12:15.
    43. Follow after whatsoever things are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, virtuous, and praiseful. -Phil. 4:8.
    44. Refrain utterly from adultery, fornication, uncleanness, drunkenness, covetousness, wrath, strife, sedition, hatred, emulation, boasting, vain-glory, envy, jesting, and foolish talking. -Eph. 5:3,4.
    45. Whatever you do, consider the effect of your action on the honor of God's name among men. Do all to the glory of God. -1 Cor. 10:31; Col. 3:17.
    46. Reckon yourselves dead to all manner of sin. Henceforth live not to yourselves, but to him who died for you, and rose again. -Rom. 6:11; 2 Cor. 5:15.
    47. Be zealous of good works, always abounding in the work of the Lord, wearying not in well doing. -Gal. 6:9; Titus 2:14.
    48. Speak evil of no man. -Titus 3:2.
    49. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly. -Col. 3:16.
    50. Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt. -Col. 3:8; 4:6.
    51. Obey rulers; submit to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake. -Titus 3:1.
    52. Be holy in all manner of conversation. -1 Pet. 1:15, 16.
    53. Give no occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. -1 Tim. 5:14.
     
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  15. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    As there is no verifiable evidence to support the existence of any god, especially the less than credible one featured in the Bible, how can it be wrong to not to believe in it? That doesn't make any sense!
     
  16. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    YAWN!:rolleyes:
     
  17. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". That is a general statement. It does not argue whether there is a God or not. It assumes it.
     
  18. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    So now you think you're better than Christ. o_O
     
  19. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Active Member

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    Here's one of my favorite Scripture:

    Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    I love that!
     
  20. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Well-Known Member

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    You didn't explain what Jesus meant by becoming "born again", and yes there is both an inner working (I wouldn't exactly call it conversion) and an outward mandate (The Kingdom of God or New Creation). I think it would better if you gave as a lengthy explanation as to what the Christian concept of the New Man and the New Creation as much as you did on explaining what secular philosophers and politicians meant by it.

    2 Corinthians 5:17-20 Ephesians 2:16 Colossians 1:20-21
     
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