The Nature of Faith

[Runlikethewind]

A little background,
The Catholic Church teaches that the body and the soul are not two separate entities that are somehow joined in this life, but that the body and soul come together to form a single new nature. I have heard it called an ensouled body or an embodied soul, something along those lines. This is in opposition to mind/body dualism (in a Cartesian sense).

So anyway this lead me to thinking about faith. I recently found out that certain studies in neuro science have found a possible link between certain kinds of brain activity and a presupposition to religious experience in particular a phenomena called Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Some links for further research.
(video session 4 V.S. Ramachandran)http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15653706/site/newsweek/

So this all got me to thinking about the nature of faith. Some people will look at this and say "see religion is all in your brain, just a result of abnormal brain activity" others might say "this just proves God wired our brain for faith". Given what the Catholic Church teaches about the single nature of body and soul I began to think that faith must have some kind of physical manifestation in the brain since the body and soul are one in nature. So do you think that faith is a purely supernatural quality? Purely natural? Both? None of the above?

 

[eudaimonia]

I also view mind and body as having a single nature, though I do not view mind and body as separable. (N.B. A conscious living body may change into a mindless corpse, but this is not separation as such, but rather disintegration.)

My opinion is that faith is purely natural, but then I am a metaphysical naturalist.

I'll pose an idea for discussion though... Let's say that supernatural powers exist. I know this is a bit of a stretch, but just try. Could it be that supernatural powers influence people through completely natural means? If you believe that God designed human beings, could it be that there is no miracle in faith (the "miracle" was in the design), and to the individual faith is all a matter of one's attitude, experiences, and brain structure?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Ozzie]

A little background,
The Catholic Church teaches that the body and the soul are not two separate entities that are somehow joined in this life, but that the body and soul come together to form a single new nature. I have heard it called an ensouled body or an embodied soul, something along those lines. This is in opposition to mind/body dualism (in a Cartesian sense).

So anyway this lead me to thinking about faith. I recently found out that certain studies in neuro science have found a possible link between certain kinds of brain activity and a presupposition to religious experience in particular a phenomena called Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Some links for further research.
(video session 4 V.S. Ramachandran)http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15653706/site/newsweek/

So this all got me to thinking about the nature of faith. Some people will look at this and say "see religion is all in your brain, just a result of abnormal brain activity" others might say "this just proves God wired our brain for faith". Given what the Catholic Church teaches about the single nature of body and soul I began to think that faith must have some kind of physical manifestation in the brain since the body and soul are one in nature. So do you think that faith is a purely supernatural quality? Purely natural? Both? None of the above?

Your post interests me greatly. I am of the opinion that Christian thought is very much based on dualism as an explanatory framework post Descartes. So does this embodied soul form an assumption of purity, upon which the rest of one's life physical and mental is acted out? If so, that would be a very difficult assumption to argue with. It would correspond to "blank slate" theories.

Therefore does the Catholic Church make no attempt to "explain" formation of consciousness and of a "mind" that ought to be held responsible for its actions in determining bodily actions or what?

 

[Runlikethewind]

I'll pose an idea for discussion though... Let's say that supernatural powers exist. I know this is a bit of a stretch, but just try. Could it be that supernatural powers influence people through completely natural means? If you believe that God designed human beings, could it be that there is no miracle in faith (the "miracle" was in the design), and to the individual faith is all a matter of one's attitude, experiences, and brain structure?

Well said! That is just along the lines I was thinking of.

I am of the opinion that Christian thought is very much based on dualism as an explanatory framework post Descartes.

I agree

So does this embodied soul form an assumption of purity, upon which the rest of one's life physical and mental is acted out? If so, that would be a very difficult assumption to argue with. It would correspond to "blank slate" theories.

Therefore does the Catholic Church make no attempt to "explain" formation of consciousness and of a "mind" that ought to be held responsible for its actions in determining bodily actions or what?

The Church teaches the we are to follow our conscience but that we are responsible for properly forming our conscience. We listen to the Church, her teachings in tradition and in scripture, we pray and think, all to learn what is right and wrong so that we may act on it and make informed decisions. At least that is how it is supposed to work ideally. I think this does correspond to blank slate theories, we have to form ourselves properly so we can act properly. At least that is what I think your getting at...

 

[PureX]

Thought is a physical phenomenon. Feelings and emotions are physical phenomenon. Same with intuition, and spiritualism, etc. But the fact that they are a physical phenomenon doesn't make them any less mysterious, or miraculous. And I believe it would be a huge mistake to ignore or diminish the mystererious and miraculous nature of our own existence.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Just a thought. If you believe the soul continues on after the body dies or that spirit is somehow capable of doing things that transcend physical limitations those are good examples of how the mind/body split has shaped and influenced your outlook even if you're not someone who outwardly subscribes to the idea that the two are separable.

 

[michel]

I replied "Natural", because I don't believe in "supernatural". What people call supernatural is the natural that they can't understand.

I know about the studies you mention; all I know is what I know, and am happy believing. I have a relationship with God, and I believe that my Soul is at present "attached" to my mortal body. When I die, my soul will leave my body.

 

[bflydad]

Reading your question, I was reminded of the quote "the mind protects, the heart connects" (I think from Barbara DeAngelis). This makes me think of faith as something external to the body, inhabiting it but somehow greater than it. I am struggling with this, but if the body is all of the neurons, then perhaps the soul/faith is the elctricity between the neurons or some other form of energy between some other element of matter in the body. Is this natural or extranatural? I think of natural as matter, so I am defining extranatural as energy. I hope this makes sense. It's sort of jumbled.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Faith is not only natural, it's essential. We use it all the time for both spiritual as well as mundane matters. Faith can be seen in our actions and embraces our honest conclusions about an event. Faith may be based on facts, fantasy or a bit of both.

Take the guy who titerope walks across Niagara Falls. It's a gorgeous day with absolutely no wind as you watch this guy go across several times. About the tenth time he starts pushing the wheelbarrow across the chasm. In absolute wonderment you watch as he goes back and forth and never hesitates and never falters or stumbles. It's a joy watching this combination of confidence and skill.

Suddenly you find yourself right by the rope. "Do you believe that I can push this cart across this chasm?" he queries. "OF COURSE YOU CAN!" you reply! Then came the simple request: "Well then, go ahead and get on in."

I suggest that your faith will allow you to get in that cart, while your doubts will keep you out! Even though this is EVIDENCED faith, everyone would have an issue climbing IN to the cart.

Not to get too distracted here, but it also takes faith to use your brakes, flip a light switch, go to sleep, and the list goes on and on. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for.

Now the hope here is not a vague desire but a certainty or a fore knowledge. An evidenced realization of what is going to happen. Faith is acting on that hope. If there is no action, then there is really no faith.

 

[Cynic]

A little background,
The Catholic Church teaches that the body and the soul are not two separate entities that are somehow joined in this life, but that the body and soul come together to form a single new nature. I have heard it called an ensouled body or an embodied soul, something along those lines. This is in opposition to mind/body dualism (in a Cartesian sense).

So anyway this lead me to thinking about faith. I recently found out that certain studies in neuro science have found a possible link between certain kinds of brain activity and a presupposition to religious experience in particular a phenomena called Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Some links for further research.
(video session 4 V.S. Ramachandran)http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15653706/site/newsweek/

So this all got me to thinking about the nature of faith. Some people will look at this and say "see religion is all in your brain, just a result of abnormal brain activity" others might say "this just proves God wired our brain for faith". Given what the Catholic Church teaches about the single nature of body and soul I began to think that faith must have some kind of physical manifestation in the brain since the body and soul are one in nature. So do you think that faith is a purely supernatural quality? Purely natural? Both? None of the above?

I thought that the Catholic church held a dichotomous view.
Anyways there is a definite correlation between mental events and physical events in the brain. Mind/brain identity theory or "embodied soul" (if materialistic) is scientifically plausible and very likely to be true, however there is no reason to believe with certainty that the mind and the brain are the same. It is still possible (although unlikely IMO) that our mind and brain exists separately but somehow interact.
It is a likely possibility that the brain contributes certain spiritual and mystical experiences (i.e. oneness with the universe or the presence of a Divine being). As you can see there is an obvious correlation in temporal lobe epilepsy. However this is still inconclusive in referance to mind/brain identity theory. Therefore one cannot say with certainty that "religion is all in your brain."
In my personal opinion, if such experiences are mere physical processes, it is not necessary to adopt a nihilistic attitude towards religion or human spirituality. Religion and spirituality (excluding all forms of fanaticism) is a significant phenomenon that can be conducive to the stability of society.

 

[Aqualung]

I think it's purely natural. Faith is just a way of making sense of things that we just cannot know (like a Kierkegaardian leap of faith). This does not mean that faith is misplaced (as a simply physical manifestation like what you said about abnormal brain activity) as I believe that the faith I have is faith that something (which actually is true) is true (if that makes sense). But faith itself is physical. (I hope my plethora of parenthetical explanations did not throw you off.)