The manosphere and "alpha male" influencers

[Stevicus]

Andrew Tate, Kevin Samuels, And The Fresh & Fit Podcast: How Toxic Male Influencers Impact Loved Ones (buzzfeednews.com)

I came across this story which popped up in my newsfeed this morning. I've seen some of these stories before, most of the time on my visits to Reddit, where there are some subreddits where issues like this are discussed. It talks about the influence of the "manosphere" and how it has affected some people's lives, which was the focus of this particular article.

A beloved brother who suddenly supports violence against women, a dad who minored in women’s studies and now wants to murder “effeminate” men, a boyfriend who starts making misogynistic jokes. We asked our readers how toxic male influences have changed the men in their lives, and they responded with disturbing stories.

Supporters of the “alpha male” ideology — a term adopted by the manosphere to describe what they consider the ideal version of manhood — were dealt a blow when rising star Andrew Tate was deplatformed across several social media sites in quick succession in August.

I had never even heard of Andrew Tate until he was deplatformed, and I've never seen any of his videos.

The former kickboxer and purported self-made millionaire found infamy online as one of the top influencers in an ecosystem of toxic male figures by defending traditional Western gender roles and preaching the gospel of misogyny. He and other creators like him position themselves as life coaches, teaching hypermasculinity and “hustle” culture — through social media, podcasts, videos, and online courses — to millennial and Gen Z men. Tate, influencer Kevin Samuels (who died in May 2022), and Myron Gaines and Walter Weekes of the Fresh & Fit podcast successfully built careers selling the idea of the dominant man to millions of followers while trafficking in anti-woman and anti-LGBTQ rhetoric.

These figures are seen as compelling to their followers because they are perceived as “anti-mainstream,” said Dr. Lisa Sugiura, author of The Incel Rebellion: The Rise of the Manosphere and the Virtual War Against Women and a professor who studies the crossover between gender and cybercrime.

“But of course, the contradiction is that it's very much part of the mainstream and validating the usual tropes about gender and violence against women,” Sugiura told BuzzFeed News.

This is evident in tweets from Tate stating rape victims “bear responsibility,” which first got him banned from Twitter in 2017, then again earlier this year. Renewed attention on his misogynist comments in August saw him deplatformed from TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, where his three channels had over 1 million subscribers and were reportedly earning both him and YouTube millions of dollars in ad revenue. While Tate may now be banned from most social media platforms, the audience he and other misogynistic influencers have cultivated remains.

What makes this particular strain of content creation so insidious is how it’s packaged: most often as self-help for men who are struggling with real issues.

“On the surface, there’s that appreciation of genuine problems that the men suffer in society, but these communities are not about support,” Sugiura said. “They are more concerned with creating this common enemy of women, society, and progressiveness. Instead, they’re taught to self-loathe, hate women, and blame women and broader society for it.”

For instance, Samuels initially introduced himself to audiences as an image consultant and lifestyle coach. But he became a godfather figure for misogynoir — misogyny directed at Black women — in his podcast and across social media.

And Gaines and Weekes touted Fresh & Fit as a place to help men navigate “females, fitness, and finances.” Their combined Instagram accounts have over 600,000 followers, and their Patreon has over 1,500 subscribers paying at least $5 a month. But Reddit has been quietly removing content from the podcast for months because it violates the platform’s rule against promoting hate.

We asked our readers to tell us stories about how listening to and watching these influencers changed the behavior of men in their lives and presented some of their experiences to representatives of Tate, Gaines, and Weekes.

Gaines and Weekes did not reply to BuzzFeed News’ request for comment for this story.

Tate denied that his content harms his younger followers. “Children who are exposed to the internet will always find ideas that they misinterpret because they don’t have real-life experience,” he told BuzzFeed News.

When we shared examples of the real-world impact of his words, Tate argued that he was a “positive force.”

Here’s a selection of stories that suggest otherwise. Some responses have been slightly edited for clarity, and names marked with * have been changed for privacy reasons.

I don't know how much actual influence any of these "influencers" have, but it does appear to be a sub-set within the overall alt-right phenomenon which has gripped the political culture in recent years. A lot of younger men and boys also seem to be influenced by this - a lot of them may be from troubled backgrounds, dysfunctional families, confused by mixed messages pervasive throughout society, an uncertain future. They become like rebels looking for a cause, and there's always someone out there to provide one.

Trump seems to exude this certain "alpha male" image which many in that crowd tend to champion. I don't think that all who fall into that category are necessarily pro-Trump, though. Most seem apolitical, or at least, their focus seems more social/culture-oriented rather than overtly political.

I've always noticed and have been aware of men who have talked to other men about bad relationships, past breakups, emotional baggage like most of us have. Men write songs about the women who did them wrong; it's been the subject of a lot of literary works and commentary throughout the ages.

So, the topic itself is not really all that new, but there's something different about the way the "manosphere" approaches it. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. I have my own theories as to what the core problem might be, although I'll resist the urge to go on another anti-capitalist rant until I see some other opinions on the topic.

I guess what really gets to me is the terminology they use. "Alpha male" sounds like they're comparing human communities to a pack of wolves. One needs a glossary to be able to understand all the jargon and acronyms they use.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Andrew Tate, Kevin Samuels, And The Fresh & Fit Podcast: How Toxic Male Influencers Impact Loved Ones (buzzfeednews.com)

I came across this story which popped up in my newsfeed this morning. I've seen some of these stories before, most of the time on my visits to Reddit, where there are some subreddits where issues like this are discussed. It talks about the influence of the "manosphere" and how it has affected some people's lives, which was the focus of this particular article.



I had never even heard of Andrew Tate until he was deplatformed, and I've never seen any of his videos.





I don't know how much actual influence any of these "influencers" have, but it does appear to be a sub-set within the overall alt-right phenomenon which has gripped the political culture in recent years. A lot of younger men and boys also seem to be influenced by this - a lot of them may be from troubled backgrounds, dysfunctional families, confused by mixed messages pervasive throughout society, an uncertain future. They become like rebels looking for a cause, and there's always someone out there to provide one.

Trump seems to exude this certain "alpha male" image which many in that crowd tend to champion. I don't think that all who fall into that category are necessarily pro-Trump, though. Most seem apolitical, or at least, their focus seems more social/culture-oriented rather than overtly political.

I've always noticed and have been aware of men who have talked to other men about bad relationships, past breakups, emotional baggage like most of us have. Men write songs about the women who did them wrong; it's been the subject of a lot of literary works and commentary throughout the ages.

So, the topic itself is not really all that new, but there's something different about the way the "manosphere" approaches it. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. I have my own theories as to what the core problem might be, although I'll resist the urge to go on another anti-capitalist rant until I see some other opinions on the topic.

I guess what really gets to me is the terminology they use. "Alpha male" sounds like they're comparing human communities to a pack of wolves. One needs a glossary to be able to understand all the jargon and acronyms they use.

It is not really politics as such. It is biology down to alpha-male versus cooperation. That one is happening in a lot of ideologies and the reverse one is that majority is always right.

 

[Estro Felino]

In my humble opinion in Western society, it is women who have the possibility to mold the diplomacy between the two sexes.
Because nowadays women are more and more economically independent, so if men are interested in them, they necessarily need to use diplomacy to draw their attention.

I am wondering: do American women really want American men to be nice, sweet and so on?
Because if women convince men to be that way, the alpha-male culture will soon disappear.

Here in my country...what they call manliness is exclusively related to the commitment and dedication men address to women.
There is a more gynocentric vision of manliness, if you think about it.

 

[VoidCat]

Andrew Tate

He's clearly a sex trafficker. I watch a long video on that website he has of his. He had took down a few posts on how to build what basically was a sex trafficking business. Hang on I'll find the video.

 

[VoidCat]

He's clearly a sex trafficker. I watch a long video on that website he has of his. He had took down a few posts on how to build what basically was a sex trafficking business. Hang on I'll find the video.

Watch from 18:29. That's when the war room website is talked about.

 

[Stevicus]

In my humble opinion in Western society, it is women who have the possibility to mold the diplomacy between the two sexes.
Because nowadays women are more and more economically independent, so if men are interested in them, they necessarily need to use diplomacy to draw their attention.

I am wondering: do American women really want American men to be nice, sweet and so on?
Because if women convince men to be that way, the alpha-male culture will soon disappear.

Here in my country...what they call manliness is exclusively related to the commitment and dedication men address to women.
There is a more gynocentric vision of manliness, if you think about it.

I've been reading recent warnings telling women to stay away from Italy, as they're warning against street harassment, groping, etc.

 

[VoidCat]

Oh and according to scientists there is not an alpha male in wolf packs. In fact there's no alpha at all. The guy who came up with the alpha idea for wolves made a mistake and tried to correct it but by that point the misconception spread everywhere. I find it funny they use the term alpha male as a result to describe humans.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Oh and according to scientists there is not an alpha male in wolf packs. In fact there's no alpha at all. The guy who came up with the alpha idea for wolves made a mistake and tried to correct it but by that point the misconception spread everywhere. I find it funny they use the term alpha male as a result to describe humans.

Please reference the study for all wolf behaviour, not just hunting.

 

[VoidCat]

Please reference the study for all wolf behaviour, not just hunting.

Hang on give me a bit.

 

[VoidCat]

Please reference the study for all wolf behaviour, not just hunting.

This is an organization devoted to helping wolves. Why 'alpha wolf' is misleading | International Wolf Center.

On his website, Mech puts it like this:

The concept of the alpha wolf is well ingrained in the popular wolf literature, at least partly because of my book “The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species,” written in 1968, published in 1970, republished in paperback in 1981, and currently still in print, despite my numerous pleas to the publisher to stop publishing it. Although most of the book’s info is still accurate, much is outdated. We have learned more about wolves in the last 40 years than in all of previous history.

One of the outdated pieces of information is the concept of the alpha wolf. “Alpha” implies competing with others and becoming top dog by winning a contest or battle. However, most wolves who lead packs achieved their position simply by mating and producing pups, which then became their pack. In other words they are merely breeders, or parents, and that’s all we call them today, the “breeding male,” “breeding female,” or “male parent,” “female parent,” or the “adult male” or “adult female.” In the rare packs that include more than one breeding animal, the “dominant breeder” can be called that, and any breeding daughter can be called a “subordinate breeder.”

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is an organization devoted to helping wolves. Why 'alpha wolf' is misleading | International Wolf Center.

So what about non-dominant non-breeder males?

 

[The Hammer]

Please reference the study for all wolf behaviour, not just hunting.

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-...s.html?_escaped_fragment_=&deviceType=desktop

Why 'alpha wolf' is misleading | International Wolf Center

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Andrew Tate, Kevin Samuels, And The Fresh & Fit Podcast: How Toxic Male Influencers Impact Loved Ones (buzzfeednews.com)

I came across this story which popped up in my newsfeed this morning. I've seen some of these stories before, most of the time on my visits to Reddit, where there are some subreddits where issues like this are discussed. It talks about the influence of the "manosphere" and how it has affected some people's lives, which was the focus of this particular article.



I had never even heard of Andrew Tate until he was deplatformed, and I've never seen any of his videos.





I don't know how much actual influence any of these "influencers" have, but it does appear to be a sub-set within the overall alt-right phenomenon which has gripped the political culture in recent years. A lot of younger men and boys also seem to be influenced by this - a lot of them may be from troubled backgrounds, dysfunctional families, confused by mixed messages pervasive throughout society, an uncertain future. They become like rebels looking for a cause, and there's always someone out there to provide one.

Trump seems to exude this certain "alpha male" image which many in that crowd tend to champion. I don't think that all who fall into that category are necessarily pro-Trump, though. Most seem apolitical, or at least, their focus seems more social/culture-oriented rather than overtly political.

I've always noticed and have been aware of men who have talked to other men about bad relationships, past breakups, emotional baggage like most of us have. Men write songs about the women who did them wrong; it's been the subject of a lot of literary works and commentary throughout the ages.

So, the topic itself is not really all that new, but there's something different about the way the "manosphere" approaches it. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. I have my own theories as to what the core problem might be, although I'll resist the urge to go on another anti-capitalist rant until I see some other opinions on the topic.

I guess what really gets to me is the terminology they use. "Alpha male" sounds like they're comparing human communities to a pack of wolves. One needs a glossary to be able to understand all the jargon and acronyms they use.

Insecure men have been doing it for a long time, where short haired women are an abomination and intellectual men are inherently effeminate and a man must be rough, tough, no manners, no emotion and always in charge. Even legit Progressive politicians (actual Progressives like Teddy Roosevelt) and not what people describe as progressivehave played into and kept it an established part of American culture.

 

[VoidCat]

So what about non-dominant non-breeder males?

I dont know much about wolves. I just know the scientist who created the term and has studied wolves his whole life says it is an inaccurate term and has repeatedly told people to stop using it.

 

[The Hammer]

So what about non-dominant non-breeder males?

Non-dom. breeder males, are a wolf packs children.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Andrew Tate, Kevin Samuels, And The Fresh & Fit Podcast: How Toxic Male Influencers Impact Loved Ones (buzzfeednews.com)

I came across this story which popped up in my newsfeed this morning. I've seen some of these stories before, most of the time on my visits to Reddit, where there are some subreddits where issues like this are discussed. It talks about the influence of the "manosphere" and how it has affected some people's lives, which was the focus of this particular article.



I had never even heard of Andrew Tate until he was deplatformed, and I've never seen any of his videos.





I don't know how much actual influence any of these "influencers" have, but it does appear to be a sub-set within the overall alt-right phenomenon which has gripped the political culture in recent years. A lot of younger men and boys also seem to be influenced by this - a lot of them may be from troubled backgrounds, dysfunctional families, confused by mixed messages pervasive throughout society, an uncertain future. They become like rebels looking for a cause, and there's always someone out there to provide one.

Trump seems to exude this certain "alpha male" image which many in that crowd tend to champion. I don't think that all who fall into that category are necessarily pro-Trump, though. Most seem apolitical, or at least, their focus seems more social/culture-oriented rather than overtly political.

I've always noticed and have been aware of men who have talked to other men about bad relationships, past breakups, emotional baggage like most of us have. Men write songs about the women who did them wrong; it's been the subject of a lot of literary works and commentary throughout the ages.

So, the topic itself is not really all that new, but there's something different about the way the "manosphere" approaches it. I can't quite put my finger on it, though. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here. I have my own theories as to what the core problem might be, although I'll resist the urge to go on another anti-capitalist rant until I see some other opinions on the topic.

I guess what really gets to me is the terminology they use. "Alpha male" sounds like they're comparing human communities to a pack of wolves. One needs a glossary to be able to understand all the jargon and acronyms they use.

So this sounds like someone's biased interpretation of what the influencers are actually doing..why should we buy it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've been reading recent warnings telling women to stay away from Italy, as they're warning against street harassment, groping, etc.

From what I've been told that's not recent but an established norm.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Oh and according to scientists there is not an alpha male in wolf packs. In fact there's no alpha at all. The guy who came up with the alpha idea for wolves made a mistake and tried to correct it but by that point the misconception spread everywhere. I find it funny they use the term alpha male as a result to describe humans.

The leader of each family pack is the alpha.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The leader of each family pack is the alpha.

There is no alpha in a wolf pack. The guy who first said it even said he was wrong and tried to correct it.
Wolf packs don’t actually have alpha males and alpha females, the idea is based on a misunderstanding

 

[VoidCat]

The leader of each family pack is the alpha.

This is an organization devoted to helping wolves. Why 'alpha wolf' is misleading | International Wolf Center.

On his website, Mech puts it like this:

The concept of the alpha wolf is well ingrained in the popular wolf literature, at least partly because of my book “The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species,” written in 1968, published in 1970, republished in paperback in 1981, and currently still in print, despite my numerous pleas to the publisher to stop publishing it. Although most of the book’s info is still accurate, much is outdated. We have learned more about wolves in the last 40 years than in all of previous history.

One of the outdated pieces of information is the concept of the alpha wolf. “Alpha” implies competing with others and becoming top dog by winning a contest or battle. However, most wolves who lead packs achieved their position simply by mating and producing pups, which then became their pack. In other words they are merely breeders, or parents, and that’s all we call them today, the “breeding male,” “breeding female,” or “male parent,” “female parent,” or the “adult male” or “adult female.” In the rare packs that include more than one breeding animal, the “dominant breeder” can be called that, and any breeding daughter can be called a “subordinate breeder.”

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-...s.html?_escaped_fragment_=&deviceType=desktop

Why 'alpha wolf' is misleading | International Wolf Center

I dont know much about wolves. I just know the scientist who created the term and has studied wolves his whole life says it is an inaccurate term and has repeatedly told people to stop using it.