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The Lake of Fire is Reincarnation

Yokefellow

Active Member
Christians are told that the God of the Christian Bible either torments and burns the Unsaved for infinity, or completely annihilates them in a place called the Lake of Fire. Critics are quick to point out that this is a glaring contradiction to the 'God of Love' that the Bible advocates...

1 John 4:16
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."


Ironically, the Christian Bible teaches neither infinite torments nor annihilation. Yet for some reason, these false teachings persist to this very day.

Christian Universalists have tried to break away from this Theology. They generally believe that Hell and the Lake of Fire is a 'purification process' and that all Human Beings will be Saved in the end...


This belief is very close to what the Bible actually teaches, however it falls short in Key areas which often results in downplaying the role of Jesus. As a result, Universalism is rejected by mainstream Christianity and banned as a topic of promotion on many Christian forums.

So, what does the Bible have to teach about the ultimate fate of Humanity? The answer is simple, yet difficult to accept for most Christians...

The Bible Teaches Reincarnation.

Yep, good old-fashioned reincarnation. Note that the word 'reincarnation' is not limited to, nor defined by, a particular religion. Each religion has their own definition of how reincarnation works. Thus, in order to define how reincarnation works in the Bible, we must study the verses supporting it to gain a better understanding.

The Lake of Fire is a great place to start because the Lake of Fire is where Christians are generally taught that 'the story ends there'. Moreover, those that are thrown in will never have a 'second chance' at Salvation. Is this correct? We will now look at the evidence.

The Lake of Fire has several names in the Bible. One of them is 'Gehenna'. This word comes from the Old Testament, and a place called the 'Valley of the Son/Children of Hinnom'. Thus, to gain an understanding of this fiery place of judgment, we must study Gehenna to see what it reveals to us...

2 Kings 23:10
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."


Some important clues are given to us in the above verse...
  • The Lake of Fire is also called Tophet
  • Those thrown in 'pass through the fire' and do not 'burn forever'
  • Once they pass through the fire, they go to an entity called 'Molech' or 'Moloch'.
We begin with the word 'Tophet'. What does that word mean and where did it come from? A clue is found in the following verse...

Isaiah 30:33 (KJV)
“For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Here is another translation…

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Notice how the word 'Tophet' is replaced with 'Hearth'? That is because the word ‘Tophet’ is synonymous with the word ‘Hearth’. This connection is very important to remember.

Let us examine another verse from the Old Testament regarding the Tabernacle in the Wilderness...

Leviticus 6:13
The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.”


The ‘Everlasting Fire’ of God was to always be burning in the Brazen Altar. Think of the phrase 'Everlasting Fire' and how it is used in other verses...

Matthew 25:41
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"


If we study the Everlasting Fire in Hebrew, we find this interesting bit of information...

'Esh' means Fire…

'Jah' means Jehovah…

Together they form ‘Esh-Jah’, the Fire of the LORD. Why is this important? According to Biblical Scholars, the word Tophet is another name for a Goddess called ‘Vesta’…

“…it is well known that the Romans had their goddess Vesta, whom Velleius Paterculus calls the keeper of the perpetual fires; and there were certain virgins, called the "vestal" virgins, whose business it was to take care that the fire never went out; and is by Virgil called the eternal fire..."

In the above quote, we see that Vesta, the Goddess of the Hearth, is associated with Eternal Fire. If we keep reading, we discover that Vesta is synonymous with Esh-Jah, the Fire of the LORD that was to be ever burning...

“…and Vesta itself is thought by some learned men to be the same with (hy-va) "Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah…”


Vesta is the Roman equivalent to the Greek Hestia. We can see how the pronunciation of 'esh-jah' sounds similar to 'Hestia'. That is because the word 'Hestia' comes from 'Esh-Jah' and later evolved to 'Vesta'.

Hestia is the Sister of Hades. The word ‘Hades’ is used in the Bible several times...

Revelation 20:14 (New International Version)
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."


Thus, it is no surprise that Hestia/Vesta would be in the Bible as well. And since Vesta/Hestia is the Goddess of the Hearth, we find that she is a perfect match for Tophet...

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


We can now study who Vesta was to gain insight as to what the Lake of Fire is really all about. An old Hebrew to English Lexicon reveals the answer...

HEBREW AND ENGLISH LEXICON, JOHN PARKHURST, 1823, PAGE 569...

An Hebrew and English lexicon, without points ... To this work are prefixed an Hebrew and a Chaldie grammar, without points : Parkhurst, John, 1728-1797 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

base12-2454881-albums-slides-pic164006-mhp-0847.png

Several meanings are given as to what Tophet means, however when all of the evidence is analyzed, the meaning that fits perfectly is of course the Goddess Vesta, the 'Perpetual Fire'.

Now for the punchline. Are you ready for the Big Reveal as to what the Lake of Fire is?

From Wikipedia:

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few; the most notable of them were tales of miraculous impregnation of a virgin priestess by a phallus appearing in the flames of the sacred hearth — the manifestation of the goddess combined with a male supernatural being."

It turns out that Vesta is almost never depicted in art. You see why. Vesta is the Moment of Conception. And now you have your answer as to what happens to the Unsaved. They come back to Earth to be born again of corruptible flesh. In other words, they are reincarnated.

base12-2454881-albums-smileys-pic164008-more-you-know.jpg
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
There is not a single verse in the Bible that debunks Reincarnation. In fact, the opposite is True.

The Bible is replete with verses teaching this concept. Even Jesus himself taught it...

Matthew 11:14
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."


John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
Every verse the Church uses to paint their false narrative of an 'infinite torments' has been grossly misinterpreted to deceive both Christians and Non-Christians alike.

We will examine the following verse to demonstrate how this is done...

Matthew 25:46
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."


The Church is hoping that the average person will incorrectly assume that 'Everlasting Punishment' is some sort of intangible, unquantifiable realm where the Unsaved are forever crying, screaming and being whipped, beaten, set on fire, etc. for infinity. What if, instead of assuming, we will look closer at what is being said?

The first thing we notice is that both the Saved and Unsaved go *into* one place or another. In other words, Everlasting Punishment and Life Eternal are *physical locations*...
  • Life Eternal = New Heavens and New Earth
  • Everlasting Punishment = Opposite of New Heavens and New Earth
The Bible teaches that the Saved will *enter into* the New Heavens and New Earth. But where will the Unsaved enter into? They will enter into the opposite location. What is the Opposite of the New Heavens and New Earth? It is not Hell. The opposite of Hell is Abraham's Bosom.

The opposite of the New Heavens and New Earth is *this Heavens and this Earth*, i.e., it is where we are located now. In other words, the Unsaved come back here to be reincarnated and 'reap what they have sown' in their previous life. All is just. All is fair.

This makes even more sense when we discover that the word 'punishment' is more accurately understood to mean 'correction'...

Strong's Greek 2851: Kolasis
Definition: Correction


We exist in a place of correction. Obviously, correction is meant to rehabilitate someone into becoming a better person. How can 'infinite torments' correct someone if it never ends? It cannot.

Moreover, the word 'everlasting' does not mean infinity. It means a period of time or an 'age'. Note how this particular translation acknowledges this fact...

Matthew 25:46 (Young's Literal Translation)
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."


There are many other examples of how the Church has twisted Scripture teach lies. Do not be fooled.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Rom. 9:10 (...) when Rebekah conceived twins from (...) Isaac our forefather:
11 (...) when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls, 12 it was said to her: “The older will be the slave of the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated.”

Doctrine of reincarnation debunked by the Bible.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
Hi @Eli G . Thanks for commenting. You brought up some very important verses for discussion...

Rom. 9:10 (...) when Rebekah conceived twins from (...) Isaac our forefather:
11 (...) when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls, 12 it was said to her: “The older will be the slave of the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated.”

Doctrine of reincarnation debunked by the Bible.

The irony is that those verses support reincarnation. The phrase...

"...they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile..."

...is simply referring to the life they had yet to live. So, the question then becomes, "How is it fair that God hated one over the other?".

"I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated."

The question answers itself when we realize that the only way for God to hate or love someone before they are born is to have known them in their previous life.

We are looking at a 'reap what has been sown' situation here, similar to the concept of Karma.

Origen believed that the verses you referenced of Esau and Jacob were about reincarnation...

"As, therefore, when the Scriptures are carefully examined regarding Jacob and Esau, it is not found to be unrighteousness with God that it should be said, before they were born, or had done anything in this life, "the elder shall serve the younger;" and as it is found not to be unrighteousness that even in the womb Jacob supplanted his brother, if we feel that he was worthily beloved by God, according to the deserts of his previous life, so as to deserve to be preferred before his brother;"


He literally said, 'previous life'.
 

River Sea

Active Member
Christians are told that the God of the Christian Bible either torments and burns the Unsaved for infinity, or completely annihilates them in a place called the Lake of Fire. Critics are quick to point out that this is a glaring contradiction to the 'God of Love' that the Bible advocates...

1 John 4:16
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."


Ironically, the Christian Bible teaches neither infinite torments nor annihilation. Yet for some reason, these false teachings persist to this very day.

Christian Universalists have tried to break away from this Theology. They generally believe that Hell and the Lake of Fire is a 'purification process' and that all Human Beings will be Saved in the end...


This belief is very close to what the Bible actually teaches, however it falls short in Key areas which often results in downplaying the role of Jesus. As a result, Universalism is rejected by mainstream Christianity and banned as a topic of promotion on many Christian forums.

So, what does the Bible have to teach about the ultimate fate of Humanity? The answer is simple, yet difficult to accept for most Christians...

The Bible Teaches Reincarnation.

Yep, good old-fashioned reincarnation. Note that the word 'reincarnation' is not limited to, nor defined by, a particular religion. Each religion has their own definition of how reincarnation works. Thus, in order to define how reincarnation works in the Bible, we must study the verses supporting it to gain a better understanding.

The Lake of Fire is a great place to start because the Lake of Fire is where Christians are generally taught that 'the story ends there'. Moreover, those that are thrown in will never have a 'second chance' at Salvation. Is this correct? We will now look at the evidence.

The Lake of Fire has several names in the Bible. One of them is 'Gehenna'. This word comes from the Old Testament, and a place called the 'Valley of the Son/Children of Hinnom'. Thus, to gain an understanding of this fiery place of judgment, we must study Gehenna to see what it reveals to us...

2 Kings 23:10
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."


Some important clues are given to us in the above verse...
  • The Lake of Fire is also called Tophet
  • Those thrown in 'pass through the fire' and do not 'burn forever'
  • Once they pass through the fire, they go to an entity called 'Molech' or 'Moloch'.
We begin with the word 'Tophet'. What does that word mean and where did it come from? A clue is found in the following verse...

Isaiah 30:33 (KJV)
“For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Here is another translation…

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Notice how the word 'Tophet' is replaced with 'Hearth'? That is because the word ‘Tophet’ is synonymous with the word ‘Hearth’. This connection is very important to remember.

Let us examine another verse from the Old Testament regarding the Tabernacle in the Wilderness...

Leviticus 6:13
The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.”


The ‘Everlasting Fire’ of God was to always be burning in the Brazen Altar. Think of the phrase 'Everlasting Fire' and how it is used in other verses...

Matthew 25:41
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"


If we study the Everlasting Fire in Hebrew, we find this interesting bit of information...

'Esh' means Fire…

'Jah' means Jehovah…

Together they form ‘Esh-Jah’, the Fire of the LORD. Why is this important? According to Biblical Scholars, the word Tophet is another name for a Goddess called ‘Vesta’…

“…it is well known that the Romans had their goddess Vesta, whom Velleius Paterculus calls the keeper of the perpetual fires; and there were certain virgins, called the "vestal" virgins, whose business it was to take care that the fire never went out; and is by Virgil called the eternal fire..."

In the above quote, we see that Vesta, the Goddess of the Hearth, is associated with Eternal Fire. If we keep reading, we discover that Vesta is synonymous with Esh-Jah, the Fire of the LORD that was to be ever burning...

“…and Vesta itself is thought by some learned men to be the same with (hy-va) "Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah…”


Vesta is the Roman equivalent to the Greek Hestia. We can see how the pronunciation of 'esh-jah' sounds similar to 'Hestia'. That is because the word 'Hestia' comes from 'Esh-Jah' and later evolved to 'Vesta'.

Hestia is the Sister of Hades. The word ‘Hades’ is used in the Bible several times...

Revelation 20:14 (New International Version)
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."


Thus, it is no surprise that Hestia/Vesta would be in the Bible as well. And since Vesta/Hestia is the Goddess of the Hearth, we find that she is a perfect match for Tophet...

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


We can now study who Vesta was to gain insight as to what the Lake of Fire is really all about. An old Hebrew to English Lexicon reveals the answer...

HEBREW AND ENGLISH LEXICON, JOHN PARKHURST, 1823, PAGE 569...

An Hebrew and English lexicon, without points ... To this work are prefixed an Hebrew and a Chaldie grammar, without points : Parkhurst, John, 1728-1797 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

base12-2454881-albums-slides-pic164006-mhp-0847.png

Several meanings are given as to what Tophet means, however when all of the evidence is analyzed, the meaning that fits perfectly is of course the Goddess Vesta, the 'Perpetual Fire'.

Now for the punchline. Are you ready for the Big Reveal as to what the Lake of Fire is?

From Wikipedia:

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few; the most notable of them were tales of miraculous impregnation of a virgin priestess by a phallus appearing in the flames of the sacred hearth — the manifestation of the goddess combined with a male supernatural being."

It turns out that Vesta is almost never depicted in art. You see why. Vesta is the Moment of Conception. And now you have your answer as to what happens to the Unsaved. They come back to Earth to be born again of corruptible flesh. In other words, they are reincarnated.

base12-2454881-albums-smileys-pic164008-more-you-know.jpg
@Yokefellow @Bharat Jhunjhunwala Us 3 understand reincarnation.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala What are your thoughts about this post that @Yokefellow showed that the Bible shows reincarnation?
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Christians are told that the God of the Christian Bible either torments and burns the Unsaved for infinity, or completely annihilates them in a place called the Lake of Fire. Critics are quick to point out that this is a glaring contradiction to the 'God of Love' that the Bible advocates...

1 John 4:16
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."


Ironically, the Christian Bible teaches neither infinite torments nor annihilation. Yet for some reason, these false teachings persist to this very day.

Christian Universalists have tried to break away from this Theology. They generally believe that Hell and the Lake of Fire is a 'purification process' and that all Human Beings will be Saved in the end...


This belief is very close to what the Bible actually teaches, however it falls short in Key areas which often results in downplaying the role of Jesus. As a result, Universalism is rejected by mainstream Christianity and banned as a topic of promotion on many Christian forums.

So, what does the Bible have to teach about the ultimate fate of Humanity? The answer is simple, yet difficult to accept for most Christians...

The Bible Teaches Reincarnation.

Yep, good old-fashioned reincarnation. Note that the word 'reincarnation' is not limited to, nor defined by, a particular religion. Each religion has their own definition of how reincarnation works. Thus, in order to define how reincarnation works in the Bible, we must study the verses supporting it to gain a better understanding.

The Lake of Fire is a great place to start because the Lake of Fire is where Christians are generally taught that 'the story ends there'. Moreover, those that are thrown in will never have a 'second chance' at Salvation. Is this correct? We will now look at the evidence.

The Lake of Fire has several names in the Bible. One of them is 'Gehenna'. This word comes from the Old Testament, and a place called the 'Valley of the Son/Children of Hinnom'. Thus, to gain an understanding of this fiery place of judgment, we must study Gehenna to see what it reveals to us...

2 Kings 23:10
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."


Some important clues are given to us in the above verse...
  • The Lake of Fire is also called Tophet
  • Those thrown in 'pass through the fire' and do not 'burn forever'
  • Once they pass through the fire, they go to an entity called 'Molech' or 'Moloch'.
We begin with the word 'Tophet'. What does that word mean and where did it come from? A clue is found in the following verse...

Isaiah 30:33 (KJV)
“For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Here is another translation…

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Notice how the word 'Tophet' is replaced with 'Hearth'? That is because the word ‘Tophet’ is synonymous with the word ‘Hearth’. This connection is very important to remember.

Let us examine another verse from the Old Testament regarding the Tabernacle in the Wilderness...

Leviticus 6:13
The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.”


The ‘Everlasting Fire’ of God was to always be burning in the Brazen Altar. Think of the phrase 'Everlasting Fire' and how it is used in other verses...

Matthew 25:41
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"


If we study the Everlasting Fire in Hebrew, we find this interesting bit of information...

'Esh' means Fire…

'Jah' means Jehovah…

Together they form ‘Esh-Jah’, the Fire of the LORD. Why is this important? According to Biblical Scholars, the word Tophet is another name for a Goddess called ‘Vesta’…

“…it is well known that the Romans had their goddess Vesta, whom Velleius Paterculus calls the keeper of the perpetual fires; and there were certain virgins, called the "vestal" virgins, whose business it was to take care that the fire never went out; and is by Virgil called the eternal fire..."

In the above quote, we see that Vesta, the Goddess of the Hearth, is associated with Eternal Fire. If we keep reading, we discover that Vesta is synonymous with Esh-Jah, the Fire of the LORD that was to be ever burning...

“…and Vesta itself is thought by some learned men to be the same with (hy-va) "Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah…”


Vesta is the Roman equivalent to the Greek Hestia. We can see how the pronunciation of 'esh-jah' sounds similar to 'Hestia'. That is because the word 'Hestia' comes from 'Esh-Jah' and later evolved to 'Vesta'.

Hestia is the Sister of Hades. The word ‘Hades’ is used in the Bible several times...

Revelation 20:14 (New International Version)
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."


Thus, it is no surprise that Hestia/Vesta would be in the Bible as well. And since Vesta/Hestia is the Goddess of the Hearth, we find that she is a perfect match for Tophet...

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


We can now study who Vesta was to gain insight as to what the Lake of Fire is really all about. An old Hebrew to English Lexicon reveals the answer...

HEBREW AND ENGLISH LEXICON, JOHN PARKHURST, 1823, PAGE 569...

An Hebrew and English lexicon, without points ... To this work are prefixed an Hebrew and a Chaldie grammar, without points : Parkhurst, John, 1728-1797 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

base12-2454881-albums-slides-pic164006-mhp-0847.png

Several meanings are given as to what Tophet means, however when all of the evidence is analyzed, the meaning that fits perfectly is of course the Goddess Vesta, the 'Perpetual Fire'.

Now for the punchline. Are you ready for the Big Reveal as to what the Lake of Fire is?

From Wikipedia:

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few; the most notable of them were tales of miraculous impregnation of a virgin priestess by a phallus appearing in the flames of the sacred hearth — the manifestation of the goddess combined with a male supernatural being."

It turns out that Vesta is almost never depicted in art. You see why. Vesta is the Moment of Conception. And now you have your answer as to what happens to the Unsaved. They come back to Earth to be born again of corruptible flesh. In other words, they are reincarnated.

base12-2454881-albums-smileys-pic164008-more-you-know.jpg
or the lake of fire is pure fiction, stolen from the Egyptians.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
@Yokefellow This attempt of yours to make believe that the Bible supports the belief in reincarnation is as ridiculous as the other attempt you made to make believe that there was a second Eve...

From the very beginning of this topic, your association of Gehenna with reincarnation was obviously forced to the point that responding to such atrocity was obviously a total waste of time, since apparently you can't reason with much logic and don't accept others to help you reason better.

Rom. 9:10-12 shows clearly that no one has "works" before being born... Whatever you think about what Origen thought of this text is irrelevant.

Rom. 9:10 (...) when Rebekah conceived twins from (...) Isaac our forefather:
11 (...) when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls, 12 it was said to her: “The older will be the slave of the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated.”
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
Rom. 9:10-12 shows clearly that no one has "works" before being born...

If that were the case, then God is not just and not righteous. That is the point being made in Romans 9 and especially in this verse...

Romans 9:14
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid."


God *is* righteous and just, therefore there is a reason that some are pre-destined to be 'fitted for destruction'...

Romans 9:21
"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"


How is it fair that some are condemned before they are even conceived? If a person is forced by God to behave in such a way that they will never be saved, how can they be blamed? That very question is asked...

Romans 9:19 (Contemporary English Version)
Someone may ask, "How can God blame us, if he makes us behave in the way he wants us to?"


We get this response...

Romans 9:20 (Contemporary English Version)
But, my friend, I ask, "Who do you think you are to question God? Does the clay have the right to ask the potter why he shaped it the way he did?


The answer is that the Clay does not have the right to ask. In other words, the Clay lost those rights based on previous works (i.e., a previous life). That means God does have the right to pre-destine someone to destruction. God has just cause with evidence based on their previous life. That is why the works of the Unsaved are tallied up...

Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."


Paul explains in a subtle way that God 'patiently puts up' with the unsaved...

Romans 9:22-23 (Contemporary English Version)
God wanted to show his anger and reveal his power against everyone who deserved to be destroyed. But instead, he patiently put up with them. He did this by showing how glorious he is when he has pity on the people he has chosen to share in his glory.


The phrase 'patiently puts up' is a reincarnation statement.

In fact, the Old Testament version of the 'Clay vs. Potter' verses teaches reincarnation in a more obvious manner...

Jeremiah 18:4
"And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it."


There it is for all to see. God 'made it again'. That is literally teaching reincarnation.

If we put it all together, we discover that those who are not Christian (e.g. Jews), will become saved only through the process of being reincarnated as believers in Christ in a future life...

Jeremiah 18:6
"O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."


And now we understand the rest of Romans 9...

Romans 9:30-32 (Contemporary English Version)
"What does all of this mean? It means that the Gentiles were not trying to be acceptable to God, but they found that he would accept them if they had faith. It also means that the people of Israel were not acceptable to God. And why not? It was because they were trying to be acceptable by obeying the Law instead of by having faith in God. The people of Israel fell over the stone that makes people stumble..."


Here is the bottom line in the simplest way I know how to state it...
  • Law (Old Testament) = Forever Imprisoned in Reincarnation Trap via Law
  • Grace (New Testament) = Forever Released from Reincarnation Trap via Grace
That is some hard-core Truth right there. Who can receive it? That is why Paul is so subtle. The Jews would flip their lids if they understood what was really being said in their Hebrew Bible.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Christians are told that the God of the Christian Bible either torments and burns the Unsaved for infinity, or completely annihilates them in a place called the Lake of Fire. Critics are quick to point out that this is a glaring contradiction to the 'God of Love' that the Bible advocates...

1 John 4:16
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."


Ironically, the Christian Bible teaches neither infinite torments nor annihilation. Yet for some reason, these false teachings persist to this very day.

Christian Universalists have tried to break away from this Theology. They generally believe that Hell and the Lake of Fire is a 'purification process' and that all Human Beings will be Saved in the end...


This belief is very close to what the Bible actually teaches, however it falls short in Key areas which often results in downplaying the role of Jesus. As a result, Universalism is rejected by mainstream Christianity and banned as a topic of promotion on many Christian forums.

So, what does the Bible have to teach about the ultimate fate of Humanity? The answer is simple, yet difficult to accept for most Christians...

The Bible Teaches Reincarnation.

Yep, good old-fashioned reincarnation. Note that the word 'reincarnation' is not limited to, nor defined by, a particular religion. Each religion has their own definition of how reincarnation works. Thus, in order to define how reincarnation works in the Bible, we must study the verses supporting it to gain a better understanding.

The Lake of Fire is a great place to start because the Lake of Fire is where Christians are generally taught that 'the story ends there'. Moreover, those that are thrown in will never have a 'second chance' at Salvation. Is this correct? We will now look at the evidence.

The Lake of Fire has several names in the Bible. One of them is 'Gehenna'. This word comes from the Old Testament, and a place called the 'Valley of the Son/Children of Hinnom'. Thus, to gain an understanding of this fiery place of judgment, we must study Gehenna to see what it reveals to us...

2 Kings 23:10
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."


Some important clues are given to us in the above verse...
  • The Lake of Fire is also called Tophet
  • Those thrown in 'pass through the fire' and do not 'burn forever'
  • Once they pass through the fire, they go to an entity called 'Molech' or 'Moloch'.
We begin with the word 'Tophet'. What does that word mean and where did it come from? A clue is found in the following verse...

Isaiah 30:33 (KJV)
“For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Here is another translation…

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


Notice how the word 'Tophet' is replaced with 'Hearth'? That is because the word ‘Tophet’ is synonymous with the word ‘Hearth’. This connection is very important to remember.

Let us examine another verse from the Old Testament regarding the Tabernacle in the Wilderness...

Leviticus 6:13
The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.”


The ‘Everlasting Fire’ of God was to always be burning in the Brazen Altar. Think of the phrase 'Everlasting Fire' and how it is used in other verses...

Matthew 25:41
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"


If we study the Everlasting Fire in Hebrew, we find this interesting bit of information...

'Esh' means Fire…

'Jah' means Jehovah…

Together they form ‘Esh-Jah’, the Fire of the LORD. Why is this important? According to Biblical Scholars, the word Tophet is another name for a Goddess called ‘Vesta’…

“…it is well known that the Romans had their goddess Vesta, whom Velleius Paterculus calls the keeper of the perpetual fires; and there were certain virgins, called the "vestal" virgins, whose business it was to take care that the fire never went out; and is by Virgil called the eternal fire..."

In the above quote, we see that Vesta, the Goddess of the Hearth, is associated with Eternal Fire. If we keep reading, we discover that Vesta is synonymous with Esh-Jah, the Fire of the LORD that was to be ever burning...

“…and Vesta itself is thought by some learned men to be the same with (hy-va) "Esh-jah", the fire of Jehovah…”


Vesta is the Roman equivalent to the Greek Hestia. We can see how the pronunciation of 'esh-jah' sounds similar to 'Hestia'. That is because the word 'Hestia' comes from 'Esh-Jah' and later evolved to 'Vesta'.

Hestia is the Sister of Hades. The word ‘Hades’ is used in the Bible several times...

Revelation 20:14 (New International Version)
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."


Thus, it is no surprise that Hestia/Vesta would be in the Bible as well. And since Vesta/Hestia is the Goddess of the Hearth, we find that she is a perfect match for Tophet...

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
“For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”


We can now study who Vesta was to gain insight as to what the Lake of Fire is really all about. An old Hebrew to English Lexicon reveals the answer...

HEBREW AND ENGLISH LEXICON, JOHN PARKHURST, 1823, PAGE 569...

An Hebrew and English lexicon, without points ... To this work are prefixed an Hebrew and a Chaldie grammar, without points : Parkhurst, John, 1728-1797 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

base12-2454881-albums-slides-pic164006-mhp-0847.png

Several meanings are given as to what Tophet means, however when all of the evidence is analyzed, the meaning that fits perfectly is of course the Goddess Vesta, the 'Perpetual Fire'.

Now for the punchline. Are you ready for the Big Reveal as to what the Lake of Fire is?

From Wikipedia:

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few; the most notable of them were tales of miraculous impregnation of a virgin priestess by a phallus appearing in the flames of the sacred hearth — the manifestation of the goddess combined with a male supernatural being."

It turns out that Vesta is almost never depicted in art. You see why. Vesta is the Moment of Conception. And now you have your answer as to what happens to the Unsaved. They come back to Earth to be born again of corruptible flesh. In other words, they are reincarnated.

base12-2454881-albums-smileys-pic164008-more-you-know.jpg
Reincarnation alone can explain people remembering past births. I think it was exorcised from christian church because it challenges the idea of saving by jesus once for all.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member

No way! lol... I cannot believe I did not know about that. By the way, your link has blessed me. Before I even read about the Egyptian Lake of Fire, I already knew what I would find...

"Fiery rivers and lakes in the underworld are mentioned in works such as the Coffin Texts and the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Around their edges sit flaming braziers or baboons"

Let us start with the Baboons...

Baboons also have noticeably high libidos, in addition to their high level of genital marking, and so Babi was considered the god of virility of the dead. He was usually portrayed with an erection, and due to the association with the judging of souls, was sometimes depicted as using it as the mast of the ferry which conveyed the righteous to Aaru, a series of islands. One spell in a funerary text identifies the deceased person's phallus with Babi, ensuring that the deceased will be able to have sexual intercourse in the afterlife.


Egyptian Lake of Fire.png

Just LOL!!! :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy:

See? I told you all didn't I? The Lake of Fire is all about the phallus and the moment of conception during reincarnation.

What about that word 'brazier'...

The word brazier is mentioned in the Bible. The Hebrew word for brazier is believed to be of Egyptian origin, suggesting that it was imported from Egypt. The lone reference to it in the Bible being the following verse:

Jeremiah 36:22–23 - the winter palace of King Jehoiakim was heated by a brazier.



What is another word for Brazier?

Jeremiah 36:22
"Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him."


Ninth month as in pregnancy. Hearth/Tophet/Hestia/Vesta! Bwahhahaa...


Don't get me started on Am-heh/Ammit.

Can't you see what is going on here? No one 'stole' anything. The Mysteries all speak of the same thing. Reincarnation and the various ways of escaping it.

I wish I knew about this sooner; I could have included it in my YouTube videos.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
There is not a single verse in the Bible that debunks Reincarnation. In fact, the opposite is True.

The Bible is replete with verses teaching this concept. Even Jesus himself taught it...

Matthew 11:14
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."


John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah.
I think there is plenty in the biblical scriptures which refute reincarnation…


“The concept of reincarnation, in any of its forms, is completely without foundation in the Bible. The truth is that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27). The Bible never even remotely suggests that people have a second chance at life or that they can come back as different people or animals. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

Several passages in Scripture refute the idea of reincarnation. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment. We are created as individuals, and our identity does not change after death (see Luke 9:30).

Some who believe in reincarnation point to Matthew 17:10–12 as biblical support for reincarnation. The disciples ask Jesus about the commonly taught prophecy that Elijah must come before the Messiah (verse 10; cf. Malachi 4:5), and Jesus responds by identifying the “Elijah” of the prophecy as John the Baptist (Matthew 17:11–13). However, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. For one thing, Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11), so the literal “coming” of Elijah would have been a descent from heaven, not a reincarnation. Jesus calls John the Baptist “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. Also, Elijah himself had just appeared, talking with Jesus (Matthew 17:3), which shows that Elijah had not changed his identity—he had not become John. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, “No, I am not” (John 1:21).”
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
There is not a single verse in the Bible that debunks Reincarnation. In fact, the opposite is True.

The Bible is replete with verses teaching this concept. Even Jesus himself taught it...

Matthew 11:14
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."


John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah.
Jesus taught about transformation and being born again. This was sort of like reincarnation. However, instead of becoming a new entity; bug or cow, it was about using the same body and the same memories. In Christianity one does not have to wait to die, to be transformed; victim of fate. Rather, one own choices in this life can change your fate; self reliance, leading to being born again in the same shell; inner man.

Reincarnation is not an endless spiral. Eventually, you reach the last incarnation and the process stops. Christianity appears to work under the assumption that each member is in their last incarnation, so what is left, is for the individual to make a choice and not blame fate. The line in the sand is clear cut at the last incarnation; choice.

In the symbolism of the four elements; Earth, Wind, Fire and Water, fire is connected to emotions, while water is connected to intellect. Baptism by water comes with an intellectual understanding. Baptism by fire is connected an emotional understanding, which is about how you feel independent of logic; fear, desire, bias, impulsive behavior, crimes of passion, etc.

The lake of fire is where the naughty go who maintain their bias and impulsive behavior, since that is what they know. This helps to isolate those who were baptized in water; river of life, so the impulsive elements are no longer a burden to them. Water and fire do not mix since water can put out fire, and fire can boil the water, so it disappears. The isolation symbolism allows both to exist at their best. Heaven above and Hell below shows that the path of the intellect was the path to higher ground. But the path below is still maintained since it is connected to the historical past from which we came; made sense in an earlier time.
 

River Sea

Active Member
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Yokefellow

1 John 4:16
"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."
@Yokefellow I agree that God is unconditional love. I think unconditional love lives in all of us and teaches us too when we allow unconditional love.
The Bible Teaches Reincarnation.
@Yokefellow I agree we're reincarnating back in a simulation. I have a question, as I'm seeking to understand your beliefs. Do you believe Jesus is the only way to avoid reincarnation, or are there other ways?
Reincarnation alone can explain people remembering past births. I think it was exorcised from christian church because it challenges the idea of saving by jesus once for all.
Looks like reincarnation was 'shadow banned' by the big media censors back in the day. Figures.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Yokefellow
What was the reason for limiting people's freedom to experience their spiritual personal journey by telling them how to think, by media censors, and by the idea of saving, once and for all, by Jesus? What does it mean to them that they removed the challenges?

Can you list your psychoanalysis and explain why it means something to them?


I don't think humans are reincarnated into animals, but only as humans. What do you think?

I said hippy.JPG
 
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