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The Insignificance of Gilgamesh

Earthling

David Henson
"Hard time"? :D Don't kid yourself. If anything, your biased, pretentious utterances, and dismissive tactics are an intriguing diversion. In other words, you're sort of a fun guy RSCG, and hardly a bother.[/


Well, so far you've yet to show us you know enough about science, evolution in particular, to make any such distinction---that is, outside the obvious minimal requirements to satisfy yourself. But that's okay, you've posted enough that we know not to take you seriously.


Of course not, because, as you say, you don't know much about science.
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Although not nearly as bright as they think they are, having, it seems, an amazing knack at almost always missing the point, they must still surely see that even if I were completely ignorant on the subject as long as I agreed with them they would only have wonderful things to say about me.

What completely escapes their attention is that as a young atheist I was taught evolution in school. They are a minority. Only such a few who had to be indoctrinated due to their world view.
 

Thaif

Member
According to anyone that has seriously studied the subjects.
Okay, I admit, I love reading citations of quotes that people post on the internet, it's a bit like crawling down the rabbit hole, maybe I'm a little ferret with a yearning for education. In any case, please feel free to cough up a few names and publications.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Altering beliefs based on new evidence is the reason for science's extraordinary success.

And that goes for religions as well.

What extraordinary success do religions have?

Religion evolves under the influence of secular humanist values and scientific knowledge. Most Christians have now accepted evolution as fact, and have rejected slavery and monarchs, for example, while science has shown us that most of Genesis and Exodus are myth. Many if not most Christians now call the creation story allegory (I guess that they don't like the word myth).
 

Earthling

David Henson
What extraordinary success do religions have?

Religion evolves under the influence of secular humanist values and scientific knowledge. Most Christians have now accepted evolution as fact, and have rejected slavery and monarchs, for example, while science has shown us that most of Genesis and Exodus are myth. Many if not most Christians now call the creation story allegory (I guess that they don't like the word myth).

Religion doesn't evolve under the influence of secular humanist values and scientific knowledge. It is the foundation of them. Most Christians have not accepted evolution as fact. If we evolved then there is no need of Christ. Science hasn't shown that most of Genesis and Exodus are myth, in fact it hasn't even attempted to do so. And if many if not most Christians now call the creation story allegory then it's because they are idiots.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Okay, I admit, I love reading citations of quotes that people post on the internet, it's a bit like crawling down the rabbit hole, maybe I'm a little ferret with a yearning for education. In any case, please feel free to cough up a few names and publications.
What would you like references on? Why can't you find some yourself?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Religion doesn't evolve under the influence of secular humanist values and scientific knowledge. It is the foundation of them. Most Christians have not accepted evolution as fact. If we evolved then there is no need of Christ. Science hasn't shown that most of Genesis and Exodus are myth, in fact it hasn't even attempted to do so. And if many if not most Christians now call the creation story allegory then it's because they are idiots.

So you confirm your ignorance. First most Christians in the U.S. may not accept the theory of evolution, but most do worldwide. Your claim that it makes Jesus unnecessary is a non sequitur. Probably due to a belief in the immoral doctrine of original sin.


Which of your many errors would you like to discuss first?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Religion doesn't evolve under the influence of secular humanist values and scientific knowledge. It is the foundation of them. Most Christians have not accepted evolution as fact. If we evolved then there is no need of Christ. Science hasn't shown that most of Genesis and Exodus are myth, in fact it hasn't even attempted to do so. And if many if not most Christians now call the creation story allegory then it's because they are idiots.

So you confirm your ignorance. First most Christians in the U.S. may not accept the theory of evolution, but most do worldwide. Your claim that it makes Jesus unnecessary is a non sequitur. Probably due to a belief in the immoral doctrine of original sin.


Which of your many errors would you like to discuss first?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Lol...on the contrary...I admire the big faith of those who believe in Creation...it's beautiful.
It's a beautiful illusion, though.
Actually it is the weak in faith that demand that the myths of Genesis have to be true. They can't accept reality and the story of Jesus, so they force themselves to believe the myths. The faithful can accept both reality and the Jesus story. And most of these "idiots" can think rings around the OP.
 

Earthling

David Henson
So you confirm your ignorance. First most Christians in the U.S. may not accept the theory of evolution, but most do worldwide. Your claim that it makes Jesus unnecessary is a non sequitur. Probably due to a belief in the immoral doctrine of original sin.


Which of your many errors would you like to discuss first?

How come whenever I open one of your posts all I can hear is the ocean?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Religion doesn't evolve under the influence of secular humanist values and scientific knowledge. It is the foundation of them.

Secular humanism is a repudiation of faith based systems of thought including Christianity. It's a reaction to it, not a child of it.

From The Affirmations of Humanism - A Statement of Principles

* We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.

* We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.

* We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.

* We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.

* We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state
.

Most Christians have not accepted evolution as fact.

These are some major institutions representing much of Christianity, all affirming biological evolution.

CHURCHES ACCEPTING EVOLUTION

[1] Baylor University, the largest Baptist University in the world has stated: "Evolution, a foundational principle of modern biology, is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and is accepted by the vast majority of scientists. Because it is fundamental to the understanding of modern biology, the faculty in the Biology Department at Baylor University, Waco, TX, teach evolution throughout the biology curriculum. We are in accordance with the American Association for Advancement of Science's statement on evolution. We are a science department, so we do not teach alternative hypotheses or philosophically deduced theories that cannot be tested rigorously."

[2] The Vatican claims Darwin's theory of evolution is compatible with Christianity
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html ; Pope John Paul Paul II said, "new scientific knowledge has led us to the conclusion that the theory of evolution is no longer a mere hypothesis."

[3] The United Methodist Church : "THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the General Conference of the United Methodist Church go on record as opposing the introduction of any faith-based theories such as Creationism or Intelligent Design into the science curriculum of our public schools." United Methodist Church: Evolution and Intelligent Design

[4] The Church of England, 2009:"Charles Darwin: 200 years from your birth, the Church of England owes you an apology for misunderstanding you and, by getting our first reaction wrong, encouraging others to misunderstand you still. We try to practise the old virtues of 'faith seeking understanding' and hope that makes some amends."

[5] In the main atrium in Notre Dame's new Jordan Hall of Science, there is a plaque that reads: "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution."

[6] The 214th General Assembly (2002) of the Presbyterian Church, "Reaffirms that there is no contradiction between an evolutionary theory of human origins and the doctrine of God as Creator."

If we evolved then there is no need of Christ.

No argument there.

Science hasn't shown that most of Genesis and Exodus are myth, in fact it hasn't even attempted to do so.

The creation story is the most obvious casualty of modern science, as is the flood myth, the Egyptian captivity, the exodus, and the military invasion and conquest of Jericho or Canaan.

Here's a part of Deuteronomy that science has recently shown to be false:

It’s not surprising that science has (once again) shown something in the Bible to be wrong. But I can’t recall ever seeing a story like this before.

There’s a section in Deuteronomy in which God calls for the complete destruction of the Canaanites (people who lived in a part of the Middle East) by the Israelites. The assumption has long been that those people were indeed annihilated, though skeptics have noted that there’s no non-biblical account of any kind of Canaanite genocide.

Now, a new genetic analysis published in The American Journal of Human Genetics shows that Canaanites didn’t just live. They thrived.


And if many if not most Christians now call the creation story allegory then it's because they are idiots.

I'll let you and them sort that out.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Actually it is the weak in faith that demand that the myths of Genesis have to be true. They can't accept reality and the story of Jesus, so they force themselves to believe the myths. The faithful can accept both reality and the Jesus story. And most of these "idiots" can think rings around the OP.

What I meant, btw, is that I do believe rationalism is strength.
Believing in the Biblical God is an illusion, but that illusion helps some people live better.
 

Earthling

David Henson
That would indicate a reading comprehension problem on your part. Should I try to use monosyllabic words only?

Oh wait. That won't work.

Should I post words with just one sound in them?

Careful, lest I should taunt you a second time with my well informed criticisms of your God science! :cool:
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Although not nearly as bright as they think they are,
Ah yes, that old I-know-better-than-they-do arrogance. Staying right in character there, RSCG. :thumbsup:

having, it seems, an amazing knack at almost always missing the point, they must still surely see that even if I were completely ignorant on the subject as long as I agreed with them they would only have wonderful things to say about me.
"Wonderful things"? My, my, aren't we taken with ourself, but again, staying right in character. ;)

What completely escapes their attention . . . .
More precisely: "What completely escapes their caring."

is that as a young atheist I was taught evolution in school.
Because what, if you weren't an atheist they wouldn't have taught you evolution?

They are a minority.
In other words, most people care very much that as a young atheist you were taught evolution in school.
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
If you read an article in Time magazine about some event and then later read a more detailed account in another article by another publisher it wouldn't indicate that the event didn't occur or that the later publication copied from the first. It's that simple.

Edited By Author To Add: By insignificant I mean in relation to the authenticity or historicity of the Bible.

Quran didn't copy anything from the Bible and or any other Scripture or no-Scripture of the non-believers, will that be correct in the same way?

Regards
 

Thaif

Member
if the Gilgamesh account is fable then it follows that the biblical account is fable
This smells a bit like hay to me. I could be lazy and quote the Wiki definition of Strawman here but I'm sure you're capable of doing that yourself.
 
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