The Importance of Mind Altering Drugs

[MSizer]

Another poster just said something to the effect that drugs shouldn't be used to alter one's mental state. I utterly disagree, and I think that is a very dangerous opinion which can result in terrible consequences.

I know from personal experience that if not for anti-psychotic drugs, I would not be alive today (that is not an exaggeration, it is a fact). I also know for a fact that there are many people who suffer terribly of psychosis, either as homeless people or people who can't stay out of trouble with the law. In many cases mind altering drugs helps these people live much more comfortable lives. I challenge anyone who disagrees to tell the parents of a young girl who was murdered by a psychotic person that mind altering drugs are wrong.

Please feel welcome to challenge my opinion.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I know from personal experience that if not for anti-psychotic drugs, I would not be alive today (that is not an exaggeration, it is a fact).

Me too.

I also know for a fact that there are many people who suffer terribly of psychosis, either as homeless people or people who can't stay out of trouble with the law.

I have the deepest sympathy for these people - well, mostly for the homeless and poor who don't have access or don't have the family/friends support to encourage them to get the help that they need.

On the people that can't stay out of trouble with the law - we're still responsible for our actions, even when we're severely handicapped. I suspect that very few people who are in trouble with the law truly can't help what they do.

 

[Thief]

I would not prohibit the use of mind altering drugs....but for different reasons.

'Changing' one's mind has been a practice that predates historical record.
So many things would be undone of people were not allowed to explore themselves while under the influence of chemistry.

American Indians are noted for their participation. I respect that.
The temples of the Eastern lands have serious incense drifting about.

On a more individual example...Freud used cocaine.
Could it be, that 'changing' one's mind, leads to better introspection?

And I've seen at least one documentary, wherein the report leaned firmly to creative enhancement while smoking pot.

Man is such a creature that exploration is not limited to what he may see with his eyes, or clutch in his hand.

I haven't tried LSD, but I've done my homework.
Dreaming while awake can be tricky.
You will need someone to watch over you as you explore.
But that you suffer risk of fines and penalties for such practice?...no.

Everything in it's own time and place......

 

[Storm]

Another poster just said something to the effect that drugs shouldn't be used to alter one's mental state. I utterly disagree, and I think that is a very dangerous opinion which can result in terrible consequences.

I know from personal experience that if not for anti-psychotic drugs, I would not be alive today (that is not an exaggeration, it is a fact). I also know for a fact that there are many people who suffer terribly of psychosis, either as homeless people or people who can't stay out of trouble with the law. In many cases mind altering drugs helps these people live much more comfortable lives. I challenge anyone who disagrees to tell the parents of a young girl who was murdered by a psychotic person that mind altering drugs are wrong.

Please feel welcome to challenge my opinion.

Well, to be fair, they probably meant recreational drugs.....

 

[Just_me_Mike]

As I just made a thread call "define drug", I believe that most anything can alter our minds, attitudes, and directions in life. Why should one drug be looked at any different than another.

In fact, it is kind of a joke, but to many she is a drug. She can alter the mind of many, by just looking at her.

 

[Breathe]

Well, to be fair, they probably meant recreational drugs.....

As Storm said.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Even if we are only talking about recreational use of mind-altering substances, where do people find the audacity to tell others what they should or shouldn't put in their own bodies?

It is nobody's business but my own what I put into my body.

Granted, if after imbibing a particular substance, I then commit a criminal offense, I should be apprropriately prosecuted for the act. But to just arbitrarily say that the use of any and all mind-altering substances is bad and should be forbidden, that is sanctimonious and unduly controlling.

Who are we to judge others? There are Native Americans who have been using peyote in religious ceremonies and for purposes of spiritual awareness long before the United States government even existed. The same is true for practitioners of Rastafarianism who utilize marijuana as a means of spiritual awareness, at least that is my understanding.

But these examples don't really matter in my mind, 'cause if I or anyone else want to sit at home in the privacy of our own residences and drop blotter LSD all weekend long while watching Bugs Bunny reruns and laughing hysterically, and we can do so without harming others or placing others at risk, what kind of self-assuming, sanctimonious control freak thinks its any of their business?

 

[Storm]

Even if we are only talking about recreational use of mind-altering substances, where do people find the audacity to tell others what they should or shouldn't put in their own bodies?

It is nobody's business but my own what I put into my body.

Granted, if after imbibing a particular substance, I then commit a criminal offense, I should be apprropriately prosecuted for the act. But to just arbitrarily say that the use of any and all mind-altering substances is bad and should be forbidden, that is sanctimonious and unduly controlling.

Who are we to judge others? There are Native Americans who have been using peyote in religious ceremonies and for purposes of spiritual awareness long before the United States government even existed. The same is true for practitioners of Rastafarianism who utilize marijuana as a means of spiritual awareness, at least that is my understanding.

But these examples don't really matter in my mind, 'cause if I or anyone else want to sit at home in the privacy of our own residences and drop blotter LSD all weekend long while watching Bugs Bunny reruns and laughing hysterically, and we can do so without harming others or placing others at risk, what kind of self-assuming, sanctimonious control freak thinks its any of their business?

Personally, I agree. However, whoever it was has a right to disagree, too.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Personally, I agree. However, whoever it was has a right to disagree, too.

I'm not challenging their right to disagree. As a matter of fact, I would proudly die for their right to disagree. I'm challenging their right to force their beliefs on others.

And believe me, everytime someone makes statements that I believe threaten my personal liberties, I will voice my opinion in opposition. They are welcome to shout their disagreements at my side.

There are most likely plenty of people who disagree with me. I would be delusional to think everyone agreed with me on this matter. I welcome their disagreements because I feel certain my position is right.

 

[Storm]

I'm not challenging their right to disagree. As a matter of fact, I would proudly die for their right to disagree. I'm challenging their right to force their beliefs on others.

And believe me, everytime someone makes statements that I believe threaten my personal liberties, I will voice my opinion in opposition. They are welcome to shout their disagreements at my side.

There are most likely plenty of people who disagree with me. I would be delusional to think everyone agreed with me on this matter. I welcome their disagreements because I feel certain my position is right.

Fair enough.

 

[mimidotcom]

ridalin.. and other such drugs they prescribe to children.. what exactly are they doing? what is it that they are working for? what's wrong with children bouncing off the walls? they are full of an energy we grown folks miss with a sickness. why shut that down? our kids are thrown into a classroom for the majority of the day.. um..i'd go crazy with it too. absolutely nuts, built up.." RAAWR I WANNA PLAY "!!!

i have a son that is hyperactive. and unfortunately it is affecting his grades and ability to focus and pay attention. this.. is not good for him. being wound up is fine.. but when his education is at risk.. what can i do? i do not want to have him on a prescription.. but is it worth it in the long run? i dont want his confidence to fail him because he's not at same pace with class.. i dont want to silence his personality.. but he wont be still long enough to read to me. he hates it actually. i cant blame him. i hated it until i was 13. any ideas?

probably off topic.. BUT.. these ADD/ADHD drugs do alter the minds of children.. but it's not really the children's decision. us parents have to decide what's best for our kiddos.. the side effects versus the outcome? is it worth it? and are there alternatives.. opinions welcome

 

[Walkntune]

ridalin.. and other such drugs they prescribe to children.. what exactly are they doing? what is it that they are working for? what's wrong with children bouncing off the walls? they are full of an energy we grown folks miss with a sickness. why shut that down? our kids are thrown into a classroom for the majority of the day.. um..i'd go crazy with it too. absolutely nuts, built up.." RAAWR I WANNA PLAY "!!!

i have a son that is hyperactive. and unfortunately it is affecting his grades and ability to focus and pay attention. this.. is not good for him. being wound up is fine.. but when his education is at risk.. what can i do? i do not want to have him on a prescription.. but is it worth it in the long run? i dont want his confidence to fail him because he's not at same pace with class.. i dont want to silence his personality.. but he wont be still long enough to read to me. he hates it actually. i cant blame him. i hated it until i was 13. any ideas?

probably off topic.. BUT.. these ADD/ADHD drugs do alter the minds of children.. but it's not really the children's decision. us parents have to decide what's best for our kiddos.. the side effects versus the outcome? is it worth it? and are there alternatives.. opinions welcome

Try taking him off sugar(if you haven't already)or cutting way back and on diet with raw fresh fruits and vegetables for a few weeks before any medications.
You won't find it a coincidence that at the same time Ritalin was becoming popular in schools, so was candy and soda machines.

 

[Draka]

ridalin.. and other such drugs they prescribe to children.. what exactly are they doing? what is it that they are working for? what's wrong with children bouncing off the walls? they are full of an energy we grown folks miss with a sickness. why shut that down? our kids are thrown into a classroom for the majority of the day.. um..i'd go crazy with it too. absolutely nuts, built up.." RAAWR I WANNA PLAY "!!!

i have a son that is hyperactive. and unfortunately it is affecting his grades and ability to focus and pay attention. this.. is not good for him. being wound up is fine.. but when his education is at risk.. what can i do? i do not want to have him on a prescription.. but is it worth it in the long run? i dont want his confidence to fail him because he's not at same pace with class.. i dont want to silence his personality.. but he wont be still long enough to read to me. he hates it actually. i cant blame him. i hated it until i was 13. any ideas?

probably off topic.. BUT.. these ADD/ADHD drugs do alter the minds of children.. but it's not really the children's decision. us parents have to decide what's best for our kiddos.. the side effects versus the outcome? is it worth it? and are there alternatives.. opinions welcome

A tidbit of a suggestion, but a great many children who get "diagnosed" with ADD/ADHD are actually of higher than normal intelligence. It's not as much that they can't pay attention as they are quite literally bored off their rears. If you were expected to sit and play Candyland when Chess is more your speed you'd be bored to tears too.

Speaking from experience here. My eldest daughter could play chess quite well at the age of four. I was once told that it was believed she had ADHD because she wouldn't sit and play "age appropriate" games and I got ticked. I proved my point by having her sit down with me and play Othello right in front of this person. Dani sat and played and strategized and had fun and paid attention for the entire game AND wanted to play again right after.

If your son just doesn't seem to want to pay attention to things "his age" then try something which should technically be a few to several years beyond him. You may find that what he lacks is a challenge and being expected to know and do something so "difficult" might catch his attention very well. It's something to try at least. It's difficult at times to know that a child should perhaps be a grade or so ahead of where they are when they are testing badly...and the reason they are testing badly is because they're bored to snot. Not saying that that is the case for all kids like that...but it certainly is a possibility to be at least checked.

 

[Walkntune]

Another poster just said something to the effect that drugs shouldn't be used to alter one's mental state. I utterly disagree, and I think that is a very dangerous opinion which can result in terrible consequences.

I know from personal experience that if not for anti-psychotic drugs, I would not be alive today (that is not an exaggeration, it is a fact). I also know for a fact that there are many people who suffer terribly of psychosis, either as homeless people or people who can't stay out of trouble with the law. In many cases mind altering drugs helps these people live much more comfortable lives. I challenge anyone who disagrees to tell the parents of a young girl who was murdered by a psychotic person that mind altering drugs are wrong.

Please feel welcome to challenge my opinion.

To be more precise I stated drugs should not be used to alter ones mental state unless they were suicidal. Be to be honest I should have been a little more broad and said , harmful to themselves or others.

Psychiatry is making you believe problems with your mind are caused by the brain, but this is solely based on a dogma and not on science. That is the difference between psychiatry and neurology, for that matter.
​

I believe I agree and that most of the time it seems to stem from emotional trauma.
Stored up emotions can have a devastating effect on the body.Once we label these stored up emotions as some form of mental disease they become almost impossible for people to let go of it as their belief system. Instead of an issue of dealing and facing emotions it becomes an issue of dealing with my brain sickness.After all, how can you believe you are something and not something at the same time. So the medicines can numb the mind which is really nothing more than signalling that their is trouble inside the body. But that's what a lot of medicines do, treat the symptoms right?
Meanwhile pharmaceutical companies keep placing commercials trying to advertise some form of drug for mental disease(would love for you to believe it even if you don't) all in the name of the almighty dollar!(huge cancer in society IMHO)
They think they are discovering new diseases but they are really just creating them.
People might be amazed at how well the body can heal itself if given the chance and we work to help it in the right direction instead of always trying to correct symptoms.
There are two ways to fight against war. You can go to an anti-war rally or you can go to a pro- peace rally. I would opt for the second because i believe energy has a stronger force with a much stronger desired effect when it has momentum in a good direction instead of being used up as resistance.Goes for your health as well. You can always fight sickness or you can fight for good health.

 

[mimidotcom]

thanks so much for imput.. you are both awesome!!.. my child is entirely too smart for his 7yrs.. and he definitely needs to get off the sugar buzz lol..

are there tests that we can do to determine if its boredom or a learning problem that needs to be addressed early? tests that arent administered by a prescription happy doctor.. or a teacher that just wants him to shut up and be still? the end of the year is coming up.. and they are wanting to keep him in first grade another year... his confidence is already bruised by this.. surely another year in 1st grade wont help with this.

 

[Walkntune]

thanks so much for imput.. you are both awesome!!.. my child is entirely too smart for his 7yrs.. and he definitely needs to get off the sugar buzz lol..

are there tests that we can do to determine if its boredom or a learning problem that needs to be addressed early? tests that arent administered by a prescription happy doctor.. or a teacher that just wants him to shut up and be still? the end of the year is coming up.. and they are wanting to keep him in first grade another year... his confidence is already bruised by this.. surely another year in 1st grade wont help with this.

Observe the difference in your child's behaviour around crowds or whether he likes to be alone.

Another thing that really troubles me is the fact people don't have an open awareness to possibilities in schools and such. Introverts and extroverts have different behaviour patterns and different blood flow patterns in the brain.
Introverts get recharged by themselves and enjoy nature and extroverts get recharged in crowds. If you put one in the group of another they can become very antsy and hard to focus. This is why you find certain groups of jocks and artistic people and those who like to be alone etc...
It is no coincidence that you see these same groups throughout every school in in every city.
Common sense is way to much for medical science. They would rather label introversion a disease and try and sale drugs.
This is why depression and mental disease is a growing epidemic.
Pharmaceutical companies love the profits!
Probably a good number of children on Ritalin because of this scenario alone.

 

[Draka]

thanks so much for imput.. you are both awesome!!.. my child is entirely too smart for his 7yrs.. and he definitely needs to get off the sugar buzz lol..

are there tests that we can do to determine if its boredom or a learning problem that needs to be addressed early? tests that arent administered by a prescription happy doctor.. or a teacher that just wants him to shut up and be still? the end of the year is coming up.. and they are wanting to keep him in first grade another year... his confidence is already bruised by this.. surely another year in 1st grade wont help with this.

First you may want to try at home just to see if you get a better reaction from him. You can go to a store and find those grade workbooks. Get a few, one for his grade, and two or three for the grades above him and try to get him to do certain things in each of the books and see if you see a different reaction at a certain level of difficulty. If you do, and you find he pays attention and is able to comprehend at a higher level, then try to set up an appointment with his principal and take the workbooks with you to show your son's work. The principal may be able to set up proper testing for your son to determine where he should really be.

If that fails, then there is the possibility of a learning disability, but don't just jump to the conclusion of ADHD or the like. A school counselor or psychologist (which don't prescribe medication) may be able to evaluate to see if there is an underlying cause.

 

[Revoltingest]

Another poster just said something to the effect that drugs shouldn't be used to alter one's mental state. I utterly disagree, and I think that is a very dangerous opinion which can result in terrible consequences.

I know from personal experience that if not for anti-psychotic drugs, I would not be alive today (that is not an exaggeration, it is a fact). I also know for a fact that there are many people who suffer terribly of psychosis, either as homeless people or people who can't stay out of trouble with the law. In many cases mind altering drugs helps these people live much more comfortable lives......

Perhaps that poster was referring to recreational drugs. I see drugs as a personal choice, a wise one in your case.
Recreational ones are problematic for me as a Libertarian. We're "pro-choice on everything", but if bad choices
are made on debilitating mind altering substances, then that is at odds with our premise that people should be
making their own decisions in rational self-interest. Drugs such as meth result in some very bad non-libertarian
decision making. I'm still in favor of legal drug use for fun, but I'm in no way sure that we'll be better off as a society.