The Ideological Shift in America

[Subduction Zone]

The 'Enlightenment', is an historical fact. It is not a made up term..

Locke, Montesquieu.. even Jefferson and others of the American founders were influenced by, and steeped in, Enlightenment principles.

That so many today are ignorant of the principles and ideals from the Enlightenment is a testament to the successful Indoctrination and revisionism from Progressivism.

Natural Law, human equality, the right to life, liberty, and property are central tenets of Enlightenment thought. Those things are contrary to the mandates of progressive belief.

No, you are misusing that term. You are guilty of an equivocation fallacy again. And "Natural Law" is another term that is frequently misused. Once again avoid using terms that you cannot justify. You will find that you are much more successful in debates when you do so.

 

[usfan]

American education now:

1. Choose your gender..
2. Promote a narrative about climate change with minimal, inadequate statistics, juggled to produce the desired result, and bully anyone who dares question the myriads of assumptions and impossible conclusions, based only on a political agenda, not hard data.
3. Declare socialism as the best form of governance, and pound that with loud repetition into every student that passes through the state run indoctrination centers.
4. Mandate atheistic naturalism as the only state sanctioned religious belief. Bully and censor any outliers.
5. Divide and disrupt any open inquiry, or free expression of ideas with antifa shout downs and intimidation.
6. Race bait & divide the citizens into identity politics special interests, rather than a uniting ideology.
7. Promote a superior view of the educated elite, who are more highly evolved than the ignorant masses.
8. Promote relative morality, expediency, and amorality, not absolute morality.

Biology, climate science, social science, and just about every study of Reality has been hijacked by the progressive left, and are now tools for indoctrination. A broad minded, open education for consideration of other views is censored by left wing echo chambers, where the dull monotone of homogeneity shapes the leaders of the future.

 

[usfan]

After the Enlightenment, a Deist view became popular, not an interventionist view. Deism might as well be atheism after "creation" happened. I sure wish conservative would stop being so authoritarian. They want to replace our laws with Bible laws.

That is a false narrative, to fear monger emotion against conservatives, and more specifically, traditional xtians.

Who? Where? ..are these evil people who want to install a theocracy, and mandate the bible as law? Progressives actually do this, mandating every detail of our lives under their control.. the size of fountain drinks, etc.. yet the accusation is toward the 'evil Christians!', .., who are only falsely accused of 'wanting!' this.

Where has ANY city or state tried to install biblical beliefs as law?

 

[Subduction Zone]

American education now:

1. Choose your gender..
2. Promote a narrative about climate change with minimal, inadequate statistics, juggled to produce the desired result, and bully anyone who dares question the myriads of assumptions and impossible conclusions, based only on a political agenda, not hard data.
3. Declare socialism as the best form of governance, and pound that with loud repetition into every student that passes through the state run indoctrination centers.
4. Mandate atheistic naturalism as the only state sanctioned religious belief. Bully and censor any outliers.
5. Divide and disrupt any open inquiry, or free expression of ideas with antifa shout downs and intimidation.
6. Race bait & divide the citizens into identity politics special interests, rather than a uniting ideology.
7. Promote a superior view of the educated elite, who are more highly evolved than the ignorant masses.
8. Promote relative morality, expediency, and amorality, not absolute morality.

Biology, climate science, social science, and just about every study of Reality has been hijacked by the progressive left, and are now tools for indoctrination. A broad minded, open education for consideration of other views is censored by left wing echo chambers, where the dull monotone of homogeneity shapes the leaders of the future.

Back to your errors and strawman arguments I see. For someone claims to follow logic you appear to have a lot of trouble following the rules of logic.

The fact that you do not like reality does not mean that it has been hijacked.

Try again.

 

[usfan]

Christianity is in decline, as a preserving, moralizing agent for American culture. Progressivism is replacing it as the ideological basis.

Christianity, as a belief system, will not go away. Its demise has been predicted often, by people nobody remembers, over the millennia. But it remains a significant, life changing worldview, with a spiritual connection with the Almighty as a powerful draw for understanding the meaning and purpose of life.

But its influence and importance as THE defining worldview in America is, and has been waning.. for decades.

 

[usfan]

Back to your errors and strawman arguments I see. For someone claims to follow logic you appear to have a lot of trouble following the rules of logic.

The fact that you do not like reality does not mean that it has been hijacked.

Try again.

You have not rebutted anything, with your ad hominem based reply. My points stand, unrefuted.
Assertions without reasoning or facts can only be dismissed. You have no arguments, just personal attacks.

 

[usfan]

The evidence of the anti-christian bias in the public discourse is undeniable, and is increasing. It should be clear evidence of this transition from the former dominant worldview: Christianity, to the one that is replacing it: Progressivism.

It is not a 'straight up' battle for the soul of America. It is a slow creeping.. an infestation done on the sly, by deception, false narratives, propaganda, subversion, and court mandates. Due process is bipassed, as are open, transparent debates or discussions ABOUT the direction of society, and the worldview that drives it.

Progressivism does not even present itself honestly, as a religio/philosophical belief system, but as 'science!', to pretend absolute Truth for the core beliefs of Progressivism. All the tenets of Progressivism are shrouded in pseudoscientific terms, obfuscation, and derision for any opposition. 'Deniers!' 'Haters!' and other progressive terms of endearment fill the public discourse, and open bigotry is not only tolerated, it is encouraged.

 

[joe1776]

I have not proposed that 'humans are declining, morally'....

You wrote: Crime rates were historically low during the Christian era, but have steadily grown in the Progressive era and you used the word amoral to describe the effects of progressive policies.

However, if you don't deny that we humans have been making positive moral progress, then why do you cast the effects of the "Progressive era" in a negative light?

 

[usfan]

I defined Progressivism in the OP. It is an historical movement/ideology, that can be followed and examined by facts and writings from the earliest progressives. It did not originate until the late 1800s, with a strong basis in marxist and darwinist writings. The source and history of Progressivism is historical fact. You can revise it, but that is deception, not analysis.

'Living political constitutions must be Darwinian in structure and in practice. Society is a living organism and must obey the laws of life, not of mechanics; it must develop. All the progressives ask or desire is permission, in an era when development:... evolution, is the scientific word.. to interpret the Constitution according to the Darwinian principle' Woodrow Wilson

Wilson, often called the father of Progressivism, clearly saw the dependency on darwinist and marxist ideals, as the basis for Progressivism. This was something new.. not old thinking from the Enlightenment or the reformation.

History can inform and enlighten, or it can be muddled and revised to fit an agenda. Beware of Indoctrination, that exists for the latter.

 

[MikeDwight]

usfan is just so alien to me. Not in a good or bad way. Can I say from Presbyterian Studies, the General Assemblies in the 1900s, they were talking about how they can pressure states into the Sabbath Law. The Sabbath Laws in this case in your state would be a simple law of some low fine that made you attend on Sunday.

That quote. Woodrow Wilson's only goal seems like the slightest moral, intellectual, validity to the struggle of Americans and Veterans. (He was sounding smart). Darwin wrote "Origin of Species" 1860. I've only heard common parlance this timeperiod. If you Look at it, he's not applying it to people like the original. He said that the content of a Constitution will necessarily evolve, experience extinction. insert Lab Coat.

 

[usfan]

You wrote: Crime rates were historically low during the Christian era, but have steadily grown in the Progressive era and you used the word amoral to describe the effects of progressive policies.

However, if you don't deny that we humans have been making positive moral progress, then why do you cast the effects the "Progressive era" in a negative light?

I make no claim of moral progress (or regress). I am examining the ideological shift in America, and the effects of this shift in the culture.

Those old enough to remember can decide if there has been any noticeable change in the cultural and moral basis, which may or may not have correlating repercussions.

I dispute that humanity is more 'moral!', which is vague and undefined. I see no fundamental change in man. Greed, exploitation, power, and control still define humans, and altruistic sacrifice is still a rare thing.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I disagree with most posters here who attempt to argue against religion or who think this is something other than a discussion about Christianity. I also disagree with the OP.

In the OP is the view that Christians should not be liberal with biblical interpretation and that anyone who is liberal with the canon has somehow allied with four things all lump summed: decline of Christianity, marxism, evolution, with atheism. I disagree, and it is the authoritative preaching circles which have bottomed out Christianity over the last century.

What is sorely needed is liberal interpretation of the canon, not shrugging off responsibility for the decline of Christianity. The OP argues "We fought and we lost ground." No. The churches avoided responsibility and lost ground. They grasped onto hypocrisy and lost ground. They didn't fight and lose ground. If they had fought they would have gained ground with God on their side. They fought for belief in the after life at all costs, and the costs have been high. The resultant "Return to Narnia" mentality and the "I'll fly away" have nearly gutted the heart of Christianity.

Ignoring problems and focusing on scarecrows has not been good for the churches. The fundamentalist churches have been kept busy. They fought for prohibition while ignoring abolition. They fought against homosexuals and blamed them for everything from hurricanes to moral decline. They've sent missionaries around the world while ignoring problems at home. These are the works of the churches which oppose liberal interpretation of the canon. So don't blame progressive Christians for the moral decline that is the fault of overly conservative reticence.

 

[MikeDwight]

Watching John Cleese execute, decapitate and quarter the Bishop of Southwark.

 

[usfan]

usfan is just so alien to me. Not in a good or bad way. Can I say from Presbyterian Studies, the General Assemblies in the 1900s, they were talking about how they can pressure states into the Sabbath Law. The Sabbath Laws in this case in your state would be a simple law of some low fine that made you attend on Sunday.

Blue laws are still in effect in some US counties. This is based on a desire to limit intoxication, and stems from prohibition times, where drink (and drunkenness), was seen as a negative societal influence. The arguments were primarily utilitarian, not religious.

Nobody suggests outlawing heroin because of bible verses, but because of negative consequences to society. Those same reasons were used by prohibitionists.

As a Cosmic Watcher of the human animal, the perception of 'Alien!' is a common suggestion.

 

[Sand Dancer]

That is a false narrative, to fear monger emotion against conservatives, and more specifically, traditional xtians.

Who? Where? ..are these evil people who want to install a theocracy, and mandate the bible as law? Progressives actually do this, mandating every detail of our lives under their control.. the size of fountain drinks, etc.. yet the accusation is toward the 'evil Christians!', .., who are only falsely accused of 'wanting!' this.

Where has ANY city or state tried to install biblical beliefs as law?

Why ignore history? You poor thing. Look up Christian Dominionism/Reconstructionism. Progressives like fiscal control, conservatives like social control. At least fiscal control helps people financially. Social control tries to tamp down people's natures. Hmm...

 

[Sand Dancer]

Blue laws are still in effect in some US counties. This is based on a desire to limit intoxication, and stems from prohibition times, where drink (and drunkenness), was seen as a negative societal influence. The arguments were primarily utilitarian, not religious.

Tell that the folks who decided that neighborhood bars were sinful, yet downtown nightclubs are great.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Christianity is in decline, as a preserving, moralizing agent for American culture. Progressivism is replacing it as the ideological basis.

Christianity, as a belief system, will not go away. Its demise has been predicted often, by people nobody remembers, over the millennia. But it remains a significant, life changing worldview, with a spiritual connection with the Almighty as a powerful draw for understanding the meaning and purpose of life.

But its influence and importance as THE defining worldview in America is, and has been waning.. for decades.

May it continue, so we can be like the other first world nations.

 

[Sand Dancer]

T


Not salami?

.

Baloney does seem to get the short end of the stick, doesn't it?

 

[columbus]

You might want to take a look at this graph of historical homocide rates in the US from this site: based on the book Made In America: Notes on American Life From American History.

I don't want to spend the time reading the link, so I'll just ask.
How is homicide defined for this graph?

The reason I ask is because the formative decades of the USA were dominated by Christian culture and values. They included slavery and war, genocide and oppression(oppression of pretty much everyone who wasn't a WASP male with money), and violent expansionism.

An example is my home state of Indiana. It wasn't until the late 19th century that killing a Native was considered homicide. And the original state Constitution forbade black people from residing or owning property here. It was a very Christian place.
Tom

 

[MikeDwight]