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The Ideological Shift in America

usfan

Well-Known Member
I think the fundamental principles for how to care for other humans are very similar. Now, the differences are of course that Marxism/Socialism to some degree denies religions and religious beliefs.
You think that Marxism promotes 'caring for others'? Where?

Other than hostility toward God, Christianity and Marxism promote the same things?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
My only comment about abortion, as an indicator of societal change:




Really. So Roe v Wade did not legalize abortion, which was already rampant? You accuse me of ignorance, with this kind of rebuttal? :facepalm:

What was wrong? The date? The claim of legalization?

You cannot even be specific, just go off on some knee jerk, 'Wrong!' accusation..

I guess if you have nothing, you can still heckle and disrupt those who do..
Yes, you are terribly ignorant since I made no such claim. The article I linked shows that your earlier claim about abortion was wrong. And you do not even seem to understand what Roe V Wade did. Abortion was legal in 20 states at the time of Roe v Wade. That decision only made legal abortion the law of the land.

Your claim was wrong in how you characterized abortion before Roe v Wade. You ignored the history of it in the 1800's when it was widely practiced and legal. That goes against your narrative in the OP. But with your penchant for strawman arguments I doubt if you can understand your error.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
.
You think that Marxism promotes 'caring for others'? Where?

Other than hostility toward God, Christianity and Marxism promote the same things?
Marx hypothesized that socialism would ultimately be transformed into a communist society: a classless, stateless, humane society based on common ownership and the underlying principle: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".
--wikipedia

In other words, your needs would be covered. Sick, getting medical. Hungry, getting food. And so on.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work, but the ideal is there to create a fair and healthy society. I'm not a Marxist, just FYI, simply because you can't dictate away people's greed.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
But , I just don't believe your outlook usfan! There is no thumbs down button. I am also not trying to take up a post with it. I also don't want to insult the poster.

Charles Darwin and Marx are somehow twins that make up the progressive intellectual mind?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Early Progressives, like Dewey & Wilson, were already promoting the naturalistic, marxist ideology, & gaining control of the institutions. IMO, it is not so much a conspiracy, but a common goal of all those indoctrinated/educated into the progressive left's agenda.

Indoctrination-Centers.jpg

Right to your front door. Glad you referenced this as your opinion, because no value nor relevance beyond that

<snip, snip>
 
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usfan

Well-Known Member
But , I just don't believe your outlook usfan! There is no thumbs down button. I am also not trying to take up a post with it. I also don't want to insult the poster.

Charles Darwin and Marx are somehow twins that make up the progressive intellectual mind?
No problem. I am not offended by alternate views. ..and i am quite used to demeaning insults on this forum.. ;) you'll have to up your game quite a bit to compete with the experts at ad hominen that regularly post here!

The influence of Marx and Darwin, as drivers of ideology, cannot be ignored. Stalin became an atheist at theological seminary after reading 'Origin of Species'. The impact on Russia alone is undeniable.

I quoted Anton earlier, and his point is clearly valid, as to the significance of these two writers/philosophers on the human experience:

Two scientists can hardly be named who have, in the second half of the 19th century, dominated the human mind to a greater degree than Darwin and Marx. Their teachings revolutionized the conception that the great masses had about the world. For decades their names have been on the tongues of everybody, and their teachings have become the central point of the mental struggles which accompany the social struggles of today. The cause of this lies primarily in the highly scientific contents of their teachings.
The scientific importance of Marxism as well as of Darwinism consists in their following out the theory of evolution, the one upon the domain of the organic world, of things animate; the other, upon the domain of society. This theory of evolution, however, was in no way new, it had its advocates before Darwin and Marx; the philosopher, Hegel, even made it the central point of his philosophy.
~Anton Pannekoek, 1909

I do not expect agreement with my points, but i have history and quotes from others who illustrate them. This shift in American culture is ideologically driven, and had causes.. influence from those who have gone before. Both Dewey and Wilson... arguably the founders of American Progressivism, credit both as major influences in their perspectives.

I think it would be much harder to deny the influence of Marx and Darwin, in the progressive worldview. It did not appear in a vacuum, but 'evolved' as others took the ideals and expanded upon them.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
.
--wikipedia
In other words, your needs would be covered. Sick, getting medical. Hungry, getting food. And so on.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work, but the ideal is there to create a fair and healthy society. I'm not a Marxist, just FYI, simply because you can't dictate away people's greed.
Yes, the lure of socialism is free stuff. ..living on other people's labors. ..and it does not work, and never has. Promoting an alluring lie may be attractive to some, but any student of history knows that the myriads of social experiments in collectivism have all failed, miserably.

So why is the allure of Marxism still so strong? Why do growing hordes of State sponsored indoctrinees cling to the illusion of collectivism as a viable social construct?

IMO, Indoctrination. Delusion and propaganda, to deceive the gullible with unworkable fantasies that have never worked.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. ~Winston Churchill
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
Right to your front door. Glad you referenced this as your opinion, because no value nor relevance beyond that
<snip, snip>
..thank you for the helpful comment.. your opinion is always useful as as indicator of my clarity.

..your hostility and disdain are a little over the top, but not unusual for progressive indoctrinees.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
Have you forgotten Californians Prop 8?

A more recent example would be Mike Pence. He spent years as governor trying to get his religious views put into the Indiana State Constitution.
Tom
Mike Pence is an exame of 'Christians!' ..:eek:.. ..who want to codify the Bible into law?

This is just a smear, with no substance. Promoting law and order, even if based on religious themes, is not 'establishing' religion. ..Neither is a 'community standard' of morality.

It is a phony caricature.. a lie, propagandized by religious competitors.. to demean xtianity as a valid worldview, to fear monger people to rush to Progressivism for protection.

There is no conspiracy among Christians to impose the bible on American society. They were the ones who insisted on religious liberty.. tolerance and freedom of conscience.. a theme from the reformation.

If you want to sound an alarm for diminishing freedoms, the progressives are much more active on that front. Mandated conformity is their schtick, along with revisionism, propaganda, and fear mongering.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
Stalin was one of the most significant characters in the 20th century. He was instrumental in defeating Hitler, and expanded the influence of communism in his time. Here are some facts about Joseph Stalin:

1. He was a student in a theological seminary.
2. He became an atheist after reading Origin of Species, by Darwin.
3. He became a devoted communist, and was inspired by Marx.
4. He was responsible for 20 - 25 million deaths, during his reign.
5. He engaged in armed robbery, to support the Bolshevik cause.
6. He impregnated a 13 yr old girl, while exiled in Siberia, c. 1914.

It is impossible to ignore the connection between Stalin's actions, and the core ideology that drove him. Much of the genocide that drove Stalin was to help 'create' the New Soviet Man.. a highly evolved superhuman, much like Hitler's goal for the Aryan nation.

In 1940, a book was published in Moscow entitled “Landmarks in the Life of Stalin.” In it we read:

At a very early age, while still a pupil in the ecclesiastical school, Comrade Stalin developed a critical mind and revolutionary sentiments. He began to read Darwin and became an atheist.
G. Glurdjidze, a boyhood friend of Stalin’s, relates:

“I began to speak of God. Joseph heard me out, and after a moment’s silence, said:

“‘You know, they are fooling us, there is no God. …’“
I was astonished at these words. I had never heard anything like it before.“‘How can you say such things, Soso?’ I exclaimed.

“‘I’ll lend you a book to read; it will show you that the world and all living things are quite different from what you imagine, and all this talk about God is sheer nonsense,’ Joseph said.

“‘What book is that?’ I enquired.

“‘Darwin. You must read it,’ Joseph impressed on me.”


The motives and agenda of the combined influence of Marx and Darwin, on the Russian theater cannot be ignored:

Seventy years ago communists easily (and, as it turned out, for a long time) seized power in Russia. Without hesitation they undertook to build a new society, hitherto unprecedented in the history of mankind, and announced the construction of Communism throughout the whole world to be their final goal.
In this society there was to be no private property, it was to be a-religious: denying God, denying the existence of the immortal soul and recognizing only the material aspect of life as real. The society was to be free of ethnic affiliations, and communists were to have unlimited power over that society.
Unprecedented methods were used to build this unprecedented society. It was decided to create a new man. This man was to be free from ethnic affiliations, see no sense in private property, be always ready to sacrifice himself for the benefit of society, have no doubts that he originated from an ape or something like it (certainly from a beast) and that nothing will remain of him after his death. In other words, he was to be a one-hundred percent materialist and atheist and must know that the meaning of life is in the person's usefulness to society and the supreme goal is in a better, wealthy and happy life of future generations. Recognizing this, he would necessarily be happy.
It was obvious to initiators of the new society and creators of the new man that several existing classes of people would delay the implementation of this task. So, it was decided to destroy millions of these people "as a class ," i.e., to kill them. To "destroy as a class" is not just a reckless cynical phrase; in fact, it is a guide to practical action. This was done in Russia, and in this way began construction of the new society in every country as soon as the communists seized power
. ~Sergei Khodorovich, 1987
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
..thank you for the helpful comment.. your opinion is always useful as as indicator of my clarity.

..your hostility and disdain are a little over the top, but not unusual for progressive indoctrinees.

My disdain and hostility toward an anti-science agenda is justified for those that are undeniably guilty of what they accuse others. This anti-science is like a disease, with doctrines that infect and indoctrinates the young from generation to generation.
 
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usfan

Well-Known Member
My disdain and hostility toward an anti-science agenda is justified for those that are undeniably guilty of what they accuse others. This anti-science is like a disease, with doctrines that infect and indoctrinates the young from generation to generation.
You describe the problem very well. Indoctrination is indeed the problem, but you miss the indoctrinators, in your bias against Christianity.

The transformation of American society is nearly complete, with progressive ideology dominating every human institution, and their agenda and propaganda exclusively promoted by State sponsored ideologues.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Mike Pence is an exame of 'Christians!' ..:eek:.. ..who want to codify the Bible into law?

This is just a smear, with no substance.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Pence.

He described himself to voters as "A Christian, a conservative, and a Republican. In that order." He spent most of his term as governor helping get a bill through that would enshrine marriage inequality in the Indiana Constitution.

And there are plenty of others, Cruz and Huckabee spring to mind.
Tom
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
The transformation of American society is nearly complete, with progressive ideology dominating every human institution, and their agenda and propaganda exclusively promoted by State sponsored ideologues.
And, as a result, we've left slavery and genocide behind. We've made huge strides in leaving the racism and bigotry behind as well.
Tom
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
The loss of American Liberty is the fault of all Americans, whether from active agents of decline, or passive acquiescence from lazy citizens.

We have all been the victims of a massive 'reeducation campaign'.. aka propaganda from the progressive left. But the Defenders of American Liberty underestimated or did not care, and the slow erosion of American values was underway. Wilson, Dewey, Sanger, Roosevelt, and hordes of others enabled and contributed to this major transformation of the American experiment. Their roots were in Darwin and Marx.

I cannot overstress the significance of the shift in the basic beliefs, about the nature of man and the universe. Atheistic naturalism had (and has) a major effect on the underlying ideology and perceptions about both man and collective governance.

The cause and effect are unmistakable
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The loss of American Liberty is the fault of all Americans, whether from active agents of decline, or passive acquiescence from lazy citizens.

We have all been the victims of a massive 'reeducation campaign'.. aka propaganda from the progressive left. But the Defenders of American Liberty underestimated or did not care, and the slow erosion of American values was underway. Wilson, Dewey, Sanger, Roosevelt, and hordes of others enabled and contributed to this major transformation of the American experiment. Their roots were in Darwin and Marx.

I cannot overstress the significance of the shift in the basic beliefs, about the nature of man and the universe. Atheistic naturalism had (and has) a major effect on the underlying ideology and perceptions about both man and collective governance.

The cause and effect are unmistakable
You keep shooting yourself in the foot by rejecting reality when you argue for your beliefs. Only loons will give you any credibility at all.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Progressive ideas and marxist ideas are in different schools. Marxists believe in revolutions. Progressives don't. Progressives simply want the poor fed, for people to have opportunity, for people to have a voice. Progressives can be libertarian. Lenin built the USSR quickly, and it failed quickly. "Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow." Proverbs 13:11 Lenin did indeed believe in crushing all ethnicities, but he was wrong. He was proven wrong, too; and he was no progressive. Progressives like diversity, unlike Lenin, unlike Dominionists, unlike many other groups and unlike authoritative bible only money grubbing ministers who constantly look for scarecrows to distract people. Just this morning I start listening to a sermon by a "bible is the perfect complete word of god" preacher, and how does the minister begin but by warning that out there (somewhere in the dark that spooky dark that you enter when you leave the sound of his voice) are ministers who are not truly christian. That's Lenin, Stallin and marxism. Its not progressive. That's progaganda and leninism.

Progressives believe that just like Moses believes, skin color shouldn't matter. Progressives believe that the poor should have access to care, just as the Levitical laws order Levites to provide food and care in biblical times. Progressives believe no one should be forced to join the military, just as in biblical canon anyone who is afraid may opt out. Progressives believe that the endless addition of property to property results in oppression just as the biblical canon says in its laws and forces property to be broken up regularly. Notice that progressives are not marxists or leninists or mauists. We simply believe in progress.

Basically progressive ideas have nothing to do with Lenin or marxism or atheism. They've always been here, part of the USA and its libertarian experiment. They've been here creating things like social security and medicare. They've been here allowing for conscientious objectors to opt out of military service.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
What a load of ahistorical codswallop.

To give just one example, Darwinism was hijacked (think "social" Darwinism and eugenics) by the political Right, not the Left. The philosophy of the Left was always that artificially introduced change could be made to stick, hence the dead end of Lysenkoism in Stalin's USSR. At its simplest, the Left has always argued "Nurture" while the Right has argued "Nature".

And anyone who actually thinks the McCarthy era was a good thing has his head very firmly up his arse.
Actually, many progressives supported eugenics. It only became associated with the right after WWII, AFAIK.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...c5e9a0-0362-11e7-b9fa-ed727b644a0b_story.html
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Until around the mid 20th century, when they progressed past it.
Tom
No, more that eugenics in general got a rap because of the Nazis. Even though the Nazis got a lot of their ideas from the American eugenics movement and the laws and practices we had. It's easy to blame another group for "going too far" than it is to examine your own history and learn how it influenced that other group.
 
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