The holy spirit

[robrog8999]

Apart for your attempt to define the Holy Spirit as being with only those who are properly Baptised. I would agree with most of what you say.

Where I differ, is that the the Holy spirit is with everyone all the time, he is unavoidable. He guides comforts and leads us no matter what faith we belong to or whether we acknowledge him or not. It is he who leads us to faith in God. With Out the Holy Spirit we would have no direct contact with God.

The holy spirit does not dwell with those who do not acknowledge him.. And without baptism, he is there some times. When baptised, you have the constant companionship of the Holy spirit. It is A gift we receive when we follow Christ in our heart. And obey the commandments.

 

[robrog8999]

Let me ask.

If you have god and jesus, what can the holy spirit do that the creator and son -has no ability- to do on their own?

That, and the holy spirit came from christ. Its christ spirit (or divine spirit if you like that people call god). When god said he will send a comfortable its his spirit not an extra one he sends.

Thats how I understand it. The holy spirit sounds redundant.

The holy spirit can be with us all the time. While God and Jesus cannot be, The Spirit can.
He has the ability to communicate with us. He is the messenger between us and God.
The Spirit is not Christ. He is separate and an entire different personage.

 

[robrog8999]

I'm gonna weigh in, even though it wouldn't be unreasonable to say I wasn't a Christian. To me the Holy Spirit isn't an entity separate from God, or in some way separate from the Father. The Holy Spirit is more like a way of experiencing or describing the one God. We can experience God in the transcendent, as the Source of all Creation. You can call God the Father in reference to that. Or we can experience God in the immanent, as the force which moves all things, which speaks to us and guides us and which appears as love within the heart. From that angle we can refer to God as the Holy Spirit. But these aren't different things we're really talking about, it's just about which angle we're talking about approaching God from. IMO!

However the bible describes the Spirit as much more then a force or energy. It describes him as a personage with personality.

 

[robrog8999]

Most churches view God as being outside time and space, but not limited by either.
However, virtually all churches place the Holy Spirit firmly with us.
The Holy Spirit is our connection with God in the here and now.

Agreed fully. That is exactly why he is with us. That is his role in the Godhead

 

[savagewind]

The holy spirit can be with us all the time. While God and Jesus cannot be, The Spirit can.
He has the ability to communicate with us. He is the messenger between us and God.
The Spirit is not Christ. He is separate and an entire different personage.

Matthew 28:20 what does it mean "with"?

 

[robrog8999]

Matthew 28:20 what does it mean "with"?

Jesus is telling His Apostles that He will be with them even after He leaves.. Meaning He will send the Holy Spirit to guide us until He, himself, returns.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The holy spirit can be with us all the time. While God and Jesus cannot be, The Spirit can.
He has the ability to communicate with us. He is the messenger between us and God.
The Spirit is not Christ. He is separate and an entire different personage.

God cannot be with you all the time? Ive never heard that from a christian. Thats limiting god and putting spirit, however defined separate from god and christ, over god. God should work in you through christ via christ spirit or the "holy" spirit. holy being an adjective to christ spirit not separate from god and christ. Biblically, that doeznt make sense. In my belief there is no god and christ only spirit. But Im sure god and christ can do the same work spirit does.

Also what is the nature of this spirit? How do you define it separate from god and christ?

If the spirit is not jesus and/or god, why do you refer to it as a he?

 

[robrog8999]

God cannot be with you all the time? Ive never heard that from a christian. Thats limiting god and putting spirit, however defined separate from god and christ, over god. God should work in you through christ via christ spirit or the "holy" spirit. holy being an adjective to christ spirit not separate from god and christ. Biblically, that doeznt make sense. In my belief there is no god and christ only spirit. But Im sure god and christ can do the same work spirit does.

Also what is the nature of this spirit? How do you define it separate from god and christ?

If the spirit is not jesus and/or god, why do you refer to it as a he?

Spirit is just that, a personage of Spirit. God's Spirit. God the Father and Jesus are physical bodies made of flesh and bone- just as we are. The Spirit can dwell inside of us and everywhere , being The Spirit of God.
Www.mormon.org will answer many of your questions concerning the deity of God, Jesus and the Holy spirit. There's also representatives from the church that can help you via chat.

 

[Kirran]

However the bible describes the Spirit as much more then a force or energy. It describes him as a personage with personality.

Not incompatible!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The holy spirit does not dwell with those who do not acknowledge him.. And without baptism, he is there some times. When baptised, you have the constant companionship of the Holy spirit. It is A gift we receive when we follow Christ in our heart. And obey the commandments.

The question of baptism is a moot point.
Various churches recognise different forms of baptism.
Trinitarian churches do not recognise the baptism of Mormons, JW's and Unitarians.
Nor do JW and Mormons recognise other churches baptisms.
I have no reason to suppose that God does not recognise them all equally.

The earliest teaching on baptism that we have is to be found in the Didache where it allows for various ways of performing it, from total immersion in flowing water, to the pouring of water on the head. These recognise the various difficulties faced by desert dwellers and the sick.

Many churches perform Chrismation where the child is anointed with oil following baptism, It is done in the name, and in recognition of the Gift of the Holy Spirit.. This is done in all Orthodox churches and some Anglican churches, including my own.

However the Holy spirit is with us from Birth or even conception, depending when you consider quickening to occur. Baptism and or confirmation certainly enhance our recognition of this. But that is from our perspective.
From the perspective of God and the Holy Spirit we are all equally their concern, baptised or not.

If you believe in universal salvation, and Mormons certainly believe that all have a opportunity after death to accept God. Then it stands to reason that the Holy spirit remains with us all during life baptised or not.

It is rather harder to say what the actual Affect of baptism is, and few churches define it, though most do see it as a public membership ritual of some sort, and a calling of the Holy spirit to support that person.
however that seems to be more for the benefit of the candidate and congregation, than the Holy Spirit, as he will do so anyway.

We are commanded to be baptised in much the same way Jesus commanded us to remember him in the Eucharist.
These are the only two rituals we are commanded to follow.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Spirit is just that, a personage of Spirit. God's Spirit. God the Father and Jesus are physical bodies made of flesh and bone- just as we are. The Spirit can dwell inside of us and everywhere , being The Spirit of God.
Www.mormon.org will answer many of your questions concerning the deity of God, Jesus and the Holy spirit. There's also representatives from the church that can help you via chat.

God is spirit not a human. Jesus is a human and he has a spirit just as the rest of us. He is no different than us. I never heard that god the father is physical. What does his body look like? Its not christ. You said 'and' so god the fathers body isnt christ.

I wouls think the spirit/god works through christians ans the only way christians can experience god/the father/spirit is through christ. Everything is through christ. Christ spirit came from christ in the pentecost and those who believed recieved the spirit of christ.

What is the nature of spirit? What do you mean personage?

I believe spirit is the life of a human being. We cannot live without spirit. Thats how we (christ included) are defined is by spirit not just flesh. So, just a spirit just langering around seen as a person or deity makes no sense. Jesus spirit makes sense since he was a person. God the father does not. Spirit sounds like panthentheism the way you describe it.

Ive never heard christianity seen like that. Even from JW. I rather talk with you. Im more for conversation. I am set in my belief and just learning.

 

[savagewind]

God is spirit not a human. Jesus is a human and he has a spirit just as the rest of us. He is no different than us. I never heard that god the father is physical. What does his body look like? Its not christ. You said 'and' so god the fathers body isnt christ.

I wouls think the spirit/god works through christians ans the only way christians can experience god/the father/spirit is through christ. Everything is through christ. Christ spirit came from christ in the pentecost and those who believed recieved the spirit of christ.

What is the nature of spirit? What do you mean personage?

I believe spirit is the life of a human being. We cannot live without spirit. Thats how we (christ included) are defined is by spirit not just flesh. So, just a spirit just langering around seen as a person or deity makes no sense. Jesus spirit makes sense since he was a person. God the father does not. Spirit sounds like panthentheism the way you describe it.

Ive never heard christianity seen like that. Even from JW. I rather talk with you. Im more for conversation. I am set ij my belief and just learning.

The Latter Day Saints presuppose the physical bodies of God and Jesus Christ.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Latter Day Saints presuppose the physical bodies of God and Jesus Christ.

Thats the first I heard of that.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

God is spirit not a human. Jesus is a human and he has a spirit just as the rest of us. He is no different than us. I never heard that god the father is physical. What does his body look like? Its not christ. You said 'and' so god the fathers body isnt christ.

I wouls think the spirit/god works through christians ans the only way christians can experience god/the father/spirit is through christ. Everything is through christ. Christ spirit came from christ in the pentecost and those who believed recieved the spirit of christ.

What is the nature of spirit? What do you mean personage?

I believe spirit is the life of a human being. We cannot live without spirit. Thats how we (christ included) are defined is by spirit not just flesh. So, just a spirit just langering around seen as a person or deity makes no sense. Jesus spirit makes sense since he was a person. God the father does not. Spirit sounds like panthentheism the way you describe it.

Ive never heard christianity seen like that. Even from JW. I rather talk with you. Im more for conversation. I am set in my belief and just learning.

Mormons are not trinitarians in the way many churches are. They see God Jesus and the Holy Spirit, as separate beings forming a single godhead. You can think of it like they being connected by a party telephone line. Which ever answers your call will give you the same answer or say the same thing.
Majority of Unitarians (not to be confused with UU's) also believe that God is God and that Jesus is his son and that the Holy spirirt operates for God.

The Bible neither mentions, nor gives any guidance, on the trinity belief. The only mentions connecting Jesus with God, is as his son.
The Holy Spirit is only mentioned for his coming from God and for what he does. Never for who or what he is.

 

[fallingblood]

Christians. If you have god, why do you 'need' the holy spirit?

If youre a trinitarian, god is spirit and so is chist, what Is the holy spirit that differientiates itself from god or christ? And why do you need it as well?

If youre not a trinitarian, how is the holy spirit different from god and why is it necessary?

These are questions for answers not to challange me into debate.

I'm going to take this from a bit of a different manner. I'm going to take it back to Judaism, or the ancient Hebrews. Like many religions, Judaism began as a polytheistic religion, and eventually at monolatrism and monotheistic. So there are some vestiges of that.

Maybe the more important factor though is that people needed different manners of G-d. It is similar, somewhat, to Hinduism, where there are many facets of G-d.

In the Old Testament, we see figures such as the spirit of G-d or heavenly Wisdom. Both are facets of G-d. They may not be needed, but it is a way to connect with G-d more effectively. Other ideas are also added there, such as with Philo of Alexandria and the Logos ideology. Again, just a facet of G-d, a way to connect or understand G-d better, as it breaks G-d down to a more manageable level.

This ideology continued forward to Christianity, where the Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of G-d, became a real facet for Christianity, one that they could connect to better than the idea of a supreme being descending from heaven, in all of its magnitude. The Spirit of G-d was a way to bridge that gap.

Jesus is later added to that mix as well. Paul helps create that addition by speaking of Jesus in terms of the Spirit of G-d or John speaking of him as the Logos. At that time though, the idea of deleting the Spirit of G-d wouldn't have been an option. Plus, it served as a way for G-d to be active in the world (besides early in the Torah, G-d doesn't descend to earth anymore. Instead, it becomes the idea that G-d is just to majestic to be seen. G-d becomes truly supreme, and thus needs a different facet to become involved).

Jesus is different as Jesus was fully human. Jesus undertook life, and all that went along with it, so has an even more real connection with humanity, as he was part of humanity. So it's just one more facet.

All of the facets really just serve as ways to connect with G-d better. They may not be needed, but for some, they help for understanding, and feeling close to G-d.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm going to take this from a bit of a different manner. I'm going to take it back to Judaism, or the ancient Hebrews. Like many religions, Judaism began as a polytheistic religion, and eventually at monolatrism and monotheistic. So there are some vestiges of that.

Maybe the more important factor though is that people needed different manners of G-d. It is similar, somewhat, to Hinduism, where there are many facets of G-d.

In the Old Testament, we see figures such as the spirit of G-d or heavenly Wisdom. Both are facets of G-d. They may not be needed, but it is a way to connect with G-d more effectively. Other ideas are also added there, such as with Philo of Alexandria and the Logos ideology. Again, just a facet of G-d, a way to connect or understand G-d better, as it breaks G-d down to a more manageable level.

This ideology continued forward to Christianity, where the Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of G-d, became a real facet for Christianity, one that they could connect to better than the idea of a supreme being descending from heaven, in all of its magnitude. The Spirit of G-d was a way to bridge that gap.

Jesus is later added to that mix as well. Paul helps create that addition by speaking of Jesus in terms of the Spirit of G-d or John speaking of him as the Logos. At that time though, the idea of deleting the Spirit of G-d wouldn't have been an option. Plus, it served as a way for G-d to be active in the world (besides early in the Torah, G-d doesn't descend to earth anymore. Instead, it becomes the idea that G-d is just to majestic to be seen. G-d becomes truly supreme, and thus needs a different facet to become involved).

Jesus is different as Jesus was fully human. Jesus undertook life, and all that went along with it, so has an even more real connection with humanity, as he was part of humanity. So it's just one more facet.

All of the facets really just serve as ways to connect with G-d better. They may not be needed, but for some, they help for understanding, and feeling close to G-d.

Interesting. This reminds me of the little I learned of the Santeria faith, and connecting with the creator by the Orishas and ancestors via ache, if I'm saying that correctly. If that be the case, then many religions that believe in god-concepts are connecting to the same god but by different means. Of course, they wouldn't personally agree, but if using the Holy Spirit is a means to connect with god then it's possible there could be many ways to contact the divine. But defining the divine is different every religion, so I guess that depends to. Not every person sees the divine as a creator, for example.

 

[Didachist]

Christians. If you have god, why do you 'need' the holy spirit?

If youre a trinitarian, god is spirit and so is chist, what Is the holy spirit that differientiates itself from god or christ? And why do you need it as well?

If youre not a trinitarian, how is the holy spirit different from god and why is it necessary?

These are questions for answers not to challange me into debate


The Holy spirit is the very presence of God and hope of redemption, it is unforgivable to blaspheme against it it is not differentiated from God, as it is to us, God, it is not the Father but rather the Father is so holy, so great his own spirit is distinct from him, it speaks, teaches, and acts , It is the helper it is the teacher.

 

[Didachist]

The holy spirit can be with us all the time. While God and Jesus cannot be, The Spirit can.
He has the ability to communicate with us. He is the messenger between us and God.
The Spirit is not Christ. He is separate and an entire different personage.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Christ is with us Brother he is present in what we call our works, and we who believe are his very physical body in this life.

The holy spirit does not dwell with those who do not acknowledge him.. And without baptism, he is there some times. When baptised, you have the constant companionship of the Holy spirit. It is A gift we receive when we follow Christ in our heart. And obey the commandments.

The Holy spirit you mean to say does not indwell within those who do not acknowledge it,

I believe this is a false teaching because the body is the temple of the holy spirit it may not dwell within that body which rejects it, it remains a constant in their life infact that holy spirit is what convicts them for disbelief in Christ.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The holy spirit does not dwell with those who do not acknowledge him.. And without baptism, he is there some times. When baptised, you have the constant companionship of the Holy spirit. It is A gift we receive when we follow Christ in our heart. And obey the commandments.

What would happen if you only had god and christ?

Does the holy spirit have the authority over the creator and christ to where without it, god and christ could not do their job?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christians. If you have god, why do you 'need' the holy spirit?

If youre a trinitarian, god is spirit and so is chist, what Is the holy spirit that differientiates itself from god or christ? And why do you need it as well?

If youre not a trinitarian, how is the holy spirit different from god and why is it necessary?

These are questions for answers not to challange me into debate


The Holy spirit is the very presence of God and hope of redemption, it is unforgivable to blaspheme against it it is not differentiated from God, as it is to us, God, it is not the Father but rather the Father is so holy, so great his own spirit is distinct from him, it speaks, teaches, and acts , It is the helper it is the teacher.

Abraham and Moses did not have the Holy Spirit nor did Christ and John. They all had a direct relationship with the creator and christ. When Christ died, his spirit is sent to believers so that they may believe in him to get to the father, and through christ, to the father, then you will have everlasting life.

The holy spirit is redundant. The father is spirit. Christ is a human. If the holy spirit is not the creator and spirit nor is he a human and savior, what is it?

Only christ's spirit would be the comfortor since he, as a human, is no longer here to give his father's words. So in his spirit (the body of Christ), you are in Christ.

How does the holy spirit play into this? It's Christian-->Christ-->God

Holy Spirit just seems to fly in the wind if comparing it to the creator and savior and what they can do.