The Holy Land: one-state solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Daniel B]

Hi everyone,
I'm starting my membership on this forum by introducting my blueprint for peace. To introduce myself: I'm a 25-year old Orthodox Jew, who lived in Israel for the past 6 years.




The Holy Land
Proposal for eternal peace in the Holy Land

Table of Contents

Chapters
-. Introduction
1. Constitution
2. Politics and government
3. Language
4. Freedom of religion
5. Foreign relations
6. Defense and public security
7. Health care
8. Public calendar
9. Diaspora issues
10. Prisoners
11. Holy sites

Introduction
Central to the concept of a unified state is the principle that both sides must come to acknowledge and understand each other's pain, and regret the injustice that has been served on both sides. Without realizing that both of our peoples have gone through major disasters over the past century, we cannot understand the importance of compromising on issues that are dear to us.

Chapter 1 Constitution
The initial constitution must be approved by the Israeli and Palestinian governments, in the form of their respective cabinets, as well as by the highest-ranking clerics of each country.
Changes to the constitution after the unification will require a majority of 80% of parliament, in both the upper and lower chambers.

Chapter 2 Politics and government
With the goal of increasing the threshold of acceptance for any changes to existing laws, the unicameral parliaments of Israel and Palestine will change into a bicameral parliament, to be housed in the current Knesset, and to have 150 seats.
With the goals of increasing government transparency, enabling quick decision making, and presenting a single face to the outside world in foreign relations, the positions of president and prime minister will merge into one position of president, following the American model.
The positions of prime minister, foreign minister, interior minister, defense minister and public security minister will be earmarked for the former Palestinian (2), former Israeli (2), and random (1) populations. Which post is to be held by who is up to coalition talks following elections.
An increased level of independence will be granted to municipalities, through municipal elections for the municipal council, the size of which is to be determined by each town separately. The municipal council, in turn, selects the members of local government including the mayor and his deputies.
Regional government on the district level will be maintained but reduced in importance. The main objectives of regional government lie in coordinating education, public safety including fire services, health services and maintaining direct oversight over municipalities. The regional government will be elected in conjunction with the municipal government.

Chapter 3 Language
The primary language in the Holy Land will be Arabic, while Hebrew and English will be accorded the status of recognized minority languages. Government offices and major companies will be obligated to provide all services in each of these languages, and all government employees will speak at least two of these languages on a high level while aiming to achieve trilingual capabilities.
The goal of having Arabic as the main language lies in integrating the Holy Land’s Jewish population with the neighboring countries, with the aim of promoting mutual understanding and cooperation in areas such as education, trade and tourism.
In the initial years of the unification, the primary language to be used by government officials will be English, to afford former Palestinians and former Israelis an equal chance at being able to follow actions of government without having to rely on translators.
In education, the following is proposed:
• Pupils in the Jewish population will start learning Arabic and Hebrew from first grade. From fourth grade, English will be added. The aim is to have a bi- and trilingual environment in schools, where part of the lessons will be held in Arabic, part in Hebrew, and – from the fourth grade onwards – part in English.
• Pupils in the Arab population will focus on Arabic and English, while learning Hebrew on a limited scale starting in fourth grade.

Chapter 4 Freedom of religion
Freedom of religion as well as separation of religion and state will be guaranteed by the constitution. This includes the right of individuals to change their religion as they desire. Proselytizing actions by any religion may be limited by state or municipal law, to be determined at a later date.
Religious institutions will be separated from the state. Initially, the state may continue for a limited number of years to fund institutions that are currently part of the state, such as the Chief Rabbinate and state religious courts; during these years, these institutions are required to privatize themselves and arrange for their own funding, eventually becoming private organizations.

Chapter 5 Foreign relations
The Holy Land will aim to create full diplomatic ties with all countries around the world. It welcomes visitors from all countries, as well as short- and long-term foreign workers.
A primary aim in foreign relations is full integration of the entire population, including the Jewish sector, in the greater region of the Middle East. The Holy Land wants to be a full and equal player on the regional and global levels.

Chapter 6 Defense and public security
The existing Israeli and Palestinian defense and security forces are to be integrated into a single organization under the leadership of the ministers of defense and public security. A major role in public security is reserved for district and municipal governments.

Chapter 7 Health care
The existing Israeli model for health care will be expanded to cover the former Palestinian areas well.

Chapter 8 Public calendar
Freedom of religion includes the right of each individual to be able to celebrate their holidays without having to work. This issue is critical in particular to the Jewish population.
The government guarantees Saturday as a day of national rest, while adding one day before and/or after that – either Friday or Sunday – for the Islamic and Christian populations, while entitling all companies to choose their own weekend, allowing them to work 5 days per week without harming the religions rights of any employees. A significant amount of goodwill will be required on the part of the employers in cooperating with this policy.
The government suggests that wherever possible, employees should be required to work on location from Monday to Thursday, while working one day flexibly either from the workplace or from a remote location.
Religious holidays are granted on an equal basis, whereby the number of total holidays for each individual equals the largest number of holidays in any religion during that year.
The existing Holocaust Remembrance Day, Remembrance Day (for fallen soldiers and victims of terrorism), and Nakba Day, will be combined into a single day of national commemoration for the disasters the entire population suffered.
A national holiday will be declared for the day on which the Holy Land gained statehood.

Chapter 9 Diaspora issues
Both the Jewish and the Palestinian peoples have an extensive diaspora. For the Holy Land, these diasporas will be considered of equal importance, and gain equal rights. It is not feasible for the Holy Land, which is already densely populated, to absorb an unlimited number of immigrants, be they new immigrants or (the descendants of) returning refugees. Equal but strict measures will be placed on both Jewish and Palestinian immigration, using the same rules for respectively Jewish and Palestinian persons. These may include a requirement to be self-sufficient, inability to gain citizenship for extended periods of time, a requirement to perform national service – civil or military – for an extended term, or state-imposed decisions on the area where immigrants can initially live.
Long-term visitor visa will be issued without any problems for Jewish and Palestinian expatriates; alternatively or in addition, citizenship without right of abode can be granted for those who cannot live in the Holy Land.

Chapter 10 Prisoners
Those who are imprisoned for planning or attempting to execute acts of terrorism are to be released immediately and granted full clemency, provided they promise to contribute to the building of the Holy Land. Those who executed acts of terrorism will be subjected to a board of review composed of three judges.

Chapter 11 Holy sites
Holy sites must be preserved, and those that are shared between religions must be equally accessible to all, subject to the decisions of religious leaders in charge of these sites. It should be noted that Jewish law does not allow Jews to access the Temple Mount under any circumstances. Sites that are to be accorded special importance include the tombs of Rachel and Joseph, and Islamic tombs in formerly Israeli areas.

 

[Flankerl]

Oh my what a nice unrealistic dream. oO

 

[Daniel B]

Oh my what a nice unrealistic dream. oO

Please elaborate, or is that too difficult? I am a bit tired of Israelis (/Jews) who just shoot down anything that does not provide Israel with all of its demands by simply calling it unrealistic.

I'd like to see why exactly you consider this to be unrealistic.

 

[Rakhel]

You do realize it will never get past the Introduction, don't you? The wounds are too deep for either side to admit the pain they caused to either side.

For both to agree, equally, on a conjoined constitution is also going to be impossible because, again, neither can agree that the other has as much right as they do.

The conjoined government, is already in an uproar. It would be more possible if more Israeli Arabs voted.

I am curious as to why the official language must be Arabic. Why not an official dual language? You are insisting on Jewish schools teaching Arabic and Hebrew then adding English. Yet, in Arabic schools Arabic and English, then adding limited Hebrew. That, in itself, is curious.
And why not desegregate the schools? You are insisting on a joined government and state, yet separate schools.

Chapters 4-8 seem reasonable enough. As does chapter 9.

10 you will have a problem with. The idea of a blanket release of all prisoners is just a tad far fetched. Some may not be in prison for political reasons. You will have to consider what is to be done with them.

Chapter 11 is another problem. Why are you allowing Muslims straight access to all holy sites yet restricting Jews? If you are demanding equality, why the limitations?

 

[Daniel B]

You do realize it will never get past the Introduction, don't you? The wounds are too deep for either side to admit the pain they caused to either side.

For both to agree, equally, on a conjoined constitution is also going to be impossible because, again, neither can agree that the other has as much right as they do.

The conjoined government, is already in an uproar. It would be more possible if more Israeli Arabs voted.

I'm not saying it's realistic. I just think being an idealist is a good thing. And I do believe something like this should happen at some point.

I am curious as to why the official language must be Arabic. Why not an official dual language? You are insisting on Jewish schools teaching Arabic and Hebrew then adding English. Yet, in Arabic schools Arabic and English, then adding limited Hebrew. That, in itself, is curious.
And why not desegregate the schools? You are insisting on a joined government and state, yet separate schools.

The language: because every country around Israel speaks Arabic, as do the Palestinians. It simply doesn't make sense for Israel to be the only country to have a completely different language, yet expect to be accepted as an equal partner in the region.

Regarding the schools: fact is Jews and Arabs tend to live in separate places even when not required to do so (compare Bnei Brak to Umm el-Fahm, or Herzliya to Tira). Since children typically go to school in their own town, schools will still largely exist of either Jewish or Arab pupils. If there are mixed towns where mixed schools are viable, that would be great and I would applaud that. However, being a religious person, I realize that such an attempt would be limited to the secular sector only. For the religious sector, however, I would suggest even putting gender-separated schools of Arabs and Jews (separately) in one building; ie, an Arab boys school and a Jewish boys school together in one building.

Chapters 4-8 seem reasonable enough. As does chapter 9.

Thanks.

10 you will have a problem with. The idea of a blanket release of all prisoners is just a tad far fetched. Some may not be in prison for political reasons. You will have to consider what is to be done with them.

It won't be easy, but it's the only appropriate way. I feel that those who have not actually committed an act of violence should be given the opportunity to be released.

Chapter 11 is another problem. Why are you allowing Muslims straight access to all holy sites yet restricting Jews? If you are demanding equality, why the limitations?

Jews wanting to be on the Temple Mount are a major cause of concern for Muslims around the world. Fact is that Judaism clearly forbids access to the Temple Mount; even the Chief Rabbinate of Israel says so, let alone all Haredi rabbis without exception, as well as the vast majority of Religious-Zionist rabbis. The only rabbis who permit access to the Temple Mount are a bunch of messianist psychos aiming for war, the ones who believe it is their holy duty to conquer the Temple Mount. They should be deported or locked up. Normative Orthodox Judaism prohibits access to the Temple Mount.

 

[Flankerl]

Please elaborate, or is that too difficult? I am a bit tired of Israelis (/Jews) who just shoot down anything that does not provide Israel with all of its demands by simply calling it unrealistic.

I'd like to see why exactly you consider this to be unrealistic.

Hm i wrote a text and then thought "so many words yet its so simple".

There would be blood. It just wouldnt work.


Then there is the whole "Israel or Palestine" debate. The arabs will clearly push for Palestine while most Jews would rather like Israel as the name.
And lets just say that i dont trust them enough. Perhaps they would bring back the nice taxes for non muslims.
Just because it would be a democracy(though arab dominated) it doesnt mean that they wouldnt radicalise.


And to just free the prisoners? Seriously?

Jews wanting to be on the Temple Mount are a major cause of concern for Muslims around the world. Fact is that Judaism clearly forbids access to the Temple Mount; even the Chief Rabbinate of Israel says so, let alone all Haredi rabbis without exception, as well as the vast majority of Religious-Zionist rabbis. The only rabbis who permit access to the Temple Mount are a bunch of messianist psychos aiming for war, the ones who believe it is their holy duty to conquer the Temple Mount. They should be deported or locked up. Normative Orthodox Judaism prohibits access to the Temple Mount.

Oh please the Chief Rabbinate can forbid ****! Its not forbidden for a jew to step on the temple mount. Its more like a scary orthodox tale.

And then again most jews in Israel couldnt care less about Orthodox opinions regulating their life.




But yeah if you want blood then the one state solution is an awesome idea.

 

[croak]

It sounds like you've put a great deal of thought into it. I can't say if your solution would work, but I must admit that I am partial to a one-state solution: I don't think a two-state solution would ever work — not for long, anyway.

Welcome to the forums! Feel free to create a thread in the Member Introduction forum.

 

[Daniel B]

Hm i wrote a text and then thought "so many words yet its so simple".

There would be blood. It just wouldnt work.

I think it would. We don't have anything to lose.

Then there is the whole "Israel or Palestine" debate. The arabs will clearly push for Palestine while most Jews would rather like Israel as the name.
And lets just say that i dont trust them enough. Perhaps they would bring back the nice taxes for non muslims.
Just because it would be a democracy(though arab dominated) it doesnt mean that they wouldnt radicalise.

As for the name, I came up with the name "Holy Land", which might be acceptable to all.
As for Jewish rights: It would be a secular state, guaranteed by the constitution. The treshold for changes to the constitution will be set extremely high, at something like 80%.

And to just free the prisoners? Seriously?

Those who do not have blood on their hands, as it says. For those who do have blood on their hands, a special court will review their cases.

Oh please the Chief Rabbinate can forbid ****! Its not forbidden for a jew to step on the temple mount. Its more like a scary orthodox tale.

And then again most jews in Israel couldnt care less about Orthodox opinions regulating their life.

It is forbidden by Halacha (Jewish law). As for whether most Jews care, I can't tell you - but maybe you can tell me, what is your point in marching around the Temple Mount? What do you want there? Why would you want to go there, if not for religious purposes? And if for religious purposes, as mentioned, Jewish law forbids going there.

But yeah if you want blood then the one state solution is an awesome idea.

I believe that the current situation, where Israel is continuously trying to postpone making major compromises and allowing Palestinian statehood, is the best guarantee for heavy bloodshed and a third intifada.

 

[Daniel B]

It sounds like you've put a great deal of thought into it. I can't say if your solution would work, but I must admit that I am partial to a one-state solution: I don't think a two-state solution would ever work — not for long, anyway.

Welcome to the forums! Feel free to create a thread in the Member Introduction forum.

Thanks! Particularly interesting that you, from Lebanon, support the one-state solution. In Lebanon, I must say, it hasn't worked out without any problems - though generally it seems to be ok.

I based my idea of rotating cabinet positions on the Lebanese model, with a slight modification since in my plan, there wouldn't be a separate president and prime minister, so in order to compensate for having only one senior position (of president), the number of government positions that must, by law, be filled by people from ethnic groups must be higher and include some ministerial positions.

 

[England my lionheart]

You have obviously put some thought into this and at least you've put something forward,if all involved could forget the last 70+ years,if certain ideologies could magically change then a one state solution is a nice idea,reality though tells us a different story,in fact i doubt there will ever be a peaceful solution to it,sadly.

 

[Daniel B]

You have obviously put some thought into this and at least you've put something forward,if all involved could forget the last 70+ years,if certain ideologies could magically change then a one state solution is a nice idea,reality though tells us a different story,in fact i doubt there will ever be a peaceful solution to it,sadly.

There has been quite a complicated process of thought behind it indeed, and the written outline contains only a small fraction of the considerations I come up with while spending many hours and days thinking about the issue.

Reality indeed tells us Israel will not be willing to accept this. My feeling is that it would be much easier to convince the Palestinian side to agree to this proposal than the Israeli side. While both sides have not been easy in negotiations at any point, I blame Israel for stalling the negotiations at every possible chance. They use every single excuse they can find to indefinitely postpone making difficult decisions, and I, as a religious Israeli Jew, am simply fed up with that.

 

[England my lionheart]

There has been quite a complicated process of thought behind it indeed, and the written outline contains only a small fraction of the considerations I come up with while spending many hours and days thinking about the issue.

Its a very complicated issue

Reality indeed tells us Israel will not be willing to accept this. My feeling is that it would be much easier to convince the Palestinian side to agree to this proposal than the Israeli side. While both sides have not been easy in negotiations at any point, I blame Israel for stalling the negotiations at every possible chance. They use every single excuse they can find to indefinitely postpone making difficult decisions, and I, as a religious Israeli Jew, am simply fed up with that.

I think people put too much blame on Israel,5 wars and two infitadas and against the odds Israel is still there yet still not allowed to live in peace,Hamas for example need only to say three little words "we recognise Israel" to aid the peace process,no chance because their Covenant says otherwise,before peace can come there must be commitment,the only commitment from Hamas is the destruction of Israel.

 

[croak]

Thanks! Particularly interesting that you, from Lebanon, support the one-state solution. In Lebanon, I must say, it hasn't worked out without any problems - though generally it seems to be ok.

We manage.

I based my idea of rotating cabinet positions on the Lebanese model, with a slight modification since in my plan, there wouldn't be a separate president and prime minister, so in order to compensate for having only one senior position (of president), the number of government positions that must, by law, be filled by people from ethnic groups must be higher and include some ministerial positions.

Hopefully that would work out. I don't know if you would want to base any ideas of governance on the Lebanese model, though; last I checked, we don't even have a government (yup, still the case). It happens to work out for us, but I would be very hesitant of taking Lebanon as an example. I would prefer a more secular government, rather than a confessional one, but that won't change overnight.

Also, I wonder if removing the position of prime minister would be a good idea?

I do admit, I haven't given much thought to forms of government. I can foresee many arguments over who gets certain positions — especially the coveted presidential position.

At least you're thinking of solutions rather than saying it's hopeless.

 

[Levite]

H
The Holy Land
Proposal for eternal peace in the Holy Land

I think this is unlikely to do anything except give the Palestinians leverage to erase the Jewish State from the map-- if not by just handing them everything they need to do it right away, then by giving them the chance to outnumber the Jewish population and erase the Jewish character of the State by weight of numbers in whatever the Knesset will end up being called in Arabic.

It is unreasonable to require that Hebrew no longer be the national language: many countries have different languages than that of their neighbors, and yet coexistence is possible.

I am all for privatizing the Rabbanut-- in fact, I am all for getting rid of it altogether, since it seems to do more using halachah for spreading sinat chinam (baseless hatred) than for anything else. But something would need to be done in its place to help maintain the Jewish character of the State. It is simply unreasonable to expect Israel to give up being Jewish-- not when there are plenty of Muslim and Christian countries around, and no other Jewish ones.

Nothing will be solved by a one-state solution except for Israel to become a thing of the past.

 

[Rakhel]

The language: because every country around Israel speaks Arabic, as do the Palestinians. It simply doesn't make sense for Israel to be the only country to have a completely different language, yet expect to be accepted as an equal partner in the region.

That would be like demanding that Quebec speak English when its official language is French. Or having the Cherokee speak English in their homes because their land is surrounded by English speaking people.

It won't be easy, but it's the only appropriate way. I feel that those who have not actually committed an act of violence should be given the opportunity to be released.

Anyone who planned or acted in a terrorist operation has blood on their hands. Many who don't, and some who do, have blood on their hands have already been released only to commit more acts of terror. Why begin to even contemplate releasing more?

Jews wanting to be on the Temple Mount are a major cause of concern for Muslims around the world. Fact is that Judaism clearly forbids access to the Temple Mount; even the Chief Rabbinate of Israel says so, let alone all Haredi rabbis without exception, as well as the vast majority of Religious-Zionist rabbis.

There is no halachic prohibition against ascending the Temple Mount. There is a prohibition against entering the Holy of Holies, even against stepping on the ground it once stood, but not against ascending the mount or even the outer court yard. Your assertion simply isn't true. There are many reasons besides provocation that Jews would want to ascend.

The only rabbis who permit access to the Temple Mount are a bunch of messianist psychos aiming for war, the ones who believe it is their holy duty to conquer the Temple Mount. They should be deported or locked up. Normative Orthodox Judaism prohibits access to the Temple Mount.

You do realize that you have contradicted yourself here, right? You are willing to release Arabs who commit acts of terrorism, yet, the Jews you want deported? For wanting to ascend the Temple Mount and maybe say a prayer?
You do realize that committing acts of terrorism or even the basic planning of an act of terror is, essentially, an act of war, right?
How can you consider the desire to pray on the Temple Mount worse than that?

 

[HiddenDjinn]

I'm not saying it's realistic. I just think being an idealist is a good thing. And I do believe something like this should happen at some point.

At least you admit exactly how crazy this sounds to any Jew who isn't suicidal.

The language: because every country around Israel speaks Arabic, as do the Palestinians. It simply doesn't make sense for Israel to be the only country to have a completely different language, yet expect to be accepted as an equal partner in the region.

Whatever you're smoking, pass me some. Doesn't make sense for a Jewish state to speak a Jewish language? HUH?

Regarding the schools: fact is Jews and Arabs tend to live in separate places even when not required to do so (compare Bnei Brak to Umm el-Fahm, or Herzliya to Tira). Since children typically go to school in their own town, schools will still largely exist of either Jewish or Arab pupils. If there are mixed towns where mixed schools are viable, that would be great and I would applaud that. However, being a religious person, I realize that such an attempt would be limited to the secular sector only. For the religious sector, however, I would suggest even putting gender-separated schools of Arabs and Jews (separately) in one building; ie, an Arab boys school and a Jewish boys school together in one building.

Ok, whatever, this might make sense.

It won't be easy, but it's the only appropriate way. I feel that those who have not actually committed an act of violence should be given the opportunity to be released.

So you're for releasing those who plan and handle logistics for those acts of war. Interesting...How many Jews do you want to see die?

Jews wanting to be on the Temple Mount are a major cause of concern for Muslims around the world. Fact is that Judaism clearly forbids access to the Temple Mount; even the Chief Rabbinate of Israel says so, let alone all Haredi rabbis without exception, as well as the vast majority of Religious-Zionist rabbis. The only rabbis who permit access to the Temple Mount are a bunch of messianist psychos aiming for war, the ones who believe it is their holy duty to conquer the Temple Mount. They should be deported or locked up. Normative Orthodox Judaism prohibits access to the Temple Mount.

FIrst, I don't give a rat's *** about the concerns of the Muslims of the world. Israel is not a Muslim state. Second, your statement about halacha forbidding the ascent to the Temple Mount and further that the Rabbanut forbids it is simply not true. I don't know where you got that info. As far as the personal attack against the Jews who might want to ascend: What, are you Satmar? That sect of Chassidim seem to be the only ones who use personal attacks against any Jew wanting to hasten the coming of the Moshiach. Oh, and the so-called Naturei Karta are just an offshoot of those Satmar. If I remember, they are officially shunned. They are not welcome in "normative Orthodox" shuls and will not be buried in the graveyards that are maintained by the congregations of those shuls.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Nothing will be solved by a one-state solution except for Israel to become a thing of the past.

Have you heard my proposal for a one-state solution?(Note: you aren't likely to like mine either.)

 

[Daniel B]

I'm not really going to respond to everything said here, since there simply is no point. Those who love the wonderful State of Israel will continue to defend it and to do everything possible to avoid making serious concessions, no matter what.

Whatever you're smoking, pass me some. Doesn't make sense for a Jewish state to speak a Jewish language? HUH?

Jews didn't speak Hebrew as a daily, spoken language for about 2000 years. Besides, "Ivrit" is not really Hebrew. It's a different language, largely but not completely based on real Hebrew.

So you're for releasing those who plan and handle logistics for those acts of war. Interesting...How many Jews do you want to see die?

The prisoners must be released. This is one of the prime Palestinian concerns. Once Israel will be gone (and Palestine as well), and a true free country for all will exist, I believe 99,9% of them will return to peaceful life and participate in building the new country. Call me naive, I don't care.

FIrst, I don't give a rat's *** about the concerns of the Muslims of the world.

And that is why there will never be peace. Nationalism is antithetical to Judaism, and this is the reason why "Israel" is doomed to fail.

Israel is not a Muslim state. Second, your statement about halacha forbidding the ascent to the Temple Mount and further that the Rabbanut forbids it is simply not true. I don't know where you got that info.

Here is a picture of the old sign - I had one of the new sign myself, but apparently lost it. * " upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sign_at_entrance_to_Temple_.jpg " The new sign says exactly the same. The only one lying here is you. The Rabbanut has, ever since 1967, forbidden Jews from goiing on the Temple Mount. (Note I can't post links as I don't have 15 posts yet, so you'll have to copy-paste the link to view it).

As far as the personal attack against the Jews who might want to ascend: What, are you Satmar? That sect of Chassidim seem to be the only ones who use personal attacks against any Jew wanting to hasten the coming of the Moshiach. Oh, and the so-called Naturei Karta are just an offshoot of those Satmar. If I remember, they are officially shunned. They are not welcome in "normative Orthodox" shuls and will not be buried in the graveyards that are maintained by the congregations of those shuls.

As it happens, I greatly respect the opinions of the previous Satmar Rebbe, Rav Joel Teitelbaum, and have most of his works. Please stop using the name "sect" as an insult; Satmar is the largest chassidic group in the world - way bigger than Chabad-Lubavitch, for example - and is quite respected. As for Neturei Karta, I think they are completely fine, though a little extremist sometimes. Please note NK is a name used by several groups; only one of these is the small group that went to Gaza, Iran, and Arafat's funeral. Read Wikipedia about NK for more on that.

Personally, however, I am absolutely not so strictly 'chareidi' any more (used to be, for a couple of years). I'm just a plain Orthodox Jew, more left-wing than right-wing these days (in religion as well as politics, that is). Ideologically I do feel closer to NK or Satmar, but I can't manage to live on their level.

About Jews going on the Temple Mount, could you comment on the following?
* " 3.bp.blogspot.com/-HKZmueOSz7w/Ta9W3gUjIII/AAAAAAAAPe0/K3P5svwiQbk/s1600/Kook.jpg "
* " 4.bp.blogspot.com/-jfd8nPgYb9E/Ta9TW-NbJwI/AAAAAAAAPes/DNCziIpqA8E/s1600/noup2.jpeg "
* " 2.bp.blogspot.com/-asrlf3ilcjE/Ta9TW8v1CEI/AAAAAAAAPek/erF7nxVber0/s1600/noup1.jpeg "
* " 1.bp.blogspot.com/-goorEvjHcSw/Ta9QiGTTJUI/AAAAAAAAPeM/THHvuG3hSA8/s1600/DSCN1916.JPG "

I didn't even bother finding names of Chareidi rabbonim who prohibit going there. I guess you'll just call Rav Shlomo Aviner, Rav Avraham Shapira, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, Rav Avigdor Nebentzahl, Chief Rabbis Metzger and Amar, Rav Isser Yehuda Unterman, Rav Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron, Rav Rav A.Y. Kook, Rav Y.Tz. Kook, and all the rest, "Satmar". That's the usual way for Zionists to talk their way out of such things.

 

[England my lionheart]

A question i would ask is whats in it for Israel,they already have a state ,seems like a lot of concessions are being asked of them,and after conceding all the above,will it change anything,i for one doubt it,so why should they.

 

[Daniel B]

A question i would ask is whats in it for Israel,they already have a state ,seems like a lot of concessions are being asked of them,and after conceding all the above,will it change anything,i for one doubt it,so why should they.

It basically means the end of Israel as we know it. The alternative is a "two-state" solution, which is impossible due to the settlements Israel itself founded.

So let me explain my thoughts:
* Israel cannot expect to hold on to settlements on Palestinian territory.
* It is impossible to forcibly evacuate 500,000 people from their homes. Israel lacks the physical (police/army) and financial means to deal with a mission like that.
* If a two-state solution is made, and all Israelis leave Palestinian territory, Israel will be a tiny little state, and the distance from Qalqilya to the sea is just 13 kilometers. Israel will not survive a single war with the Arabs.
* Israel will hugely benefit from integrating as part of the Arabic world. Throughout the ages, Jews have lived under Islamic rule (note that this will not be the case here - it will be a secular state) for many centuries, generally with more success than those who lived under Christian rule.

The economic benefits of peace with the Arab world are huge. Trade, education, tourism, and more.

It means the end of Israel - and the beginning of something much better.