jml03
Member
do you have any idea of what we are talking about?
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The fall of man; Free will
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
do you have any idea of what we are talking about?
logician
Well-Known Member
Evolution seems to refute this spacious argument.
waitasec
Veteran Member
do you?
DarkSun
:eltiT
This doesn't negate anything I've said...
You can't use a 'parent - child' analogy and then compare it the whole 'God - creation' scenario. They're two completely different things. For starters, we don't have any control over the nature of the children we spawn, God does In fact, according to the creation myth, He oversaw our design Himself. And since God is all-knowing, he would have known the EXACT consequences of putting a tree in the middle of a garden and telling us not to eat it.
To claim otherwise would be to say that God either didn't know His own creation or that He didn't know the consequences of His actions. So if God was all-knowing enough to know what was going to happen, all-powerful enough to prevent it, and all-loving enough to want to... it really doesn't make sense that He let us eat from the fruit and become tainted with original sin. The only logical conclusion is that God set us up from the beginning.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
:biglaugh:
what are you talking about....?
you said...
　
maybe if you read it like this...the way it was originally laid out without chapters and verses...matthew 16:24 - 17:3
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
so in chapter 16 was JC talking about the transfiguration in the 17th chapter or not? NO
1. are all the disciples are still alive, who were the 'some' that died?
2. did JC reward those disciples NO
3. are moses and elijah the angels he's talking about in the 16th chapter NO
i'll remind you again you said
:biglaugh:
my advice to you
don't hold your breathe....:
:no:
:or you can just keep reading into the scriptures to explain why JC hasn't come back yet :ignore:
waitasec
Veteran Member
who is fudging up the scripture
you are saying matt 16:27 and mark 8:28 are linear stories and are related to each other
then you cross the scripture again and say matt 16:28 and mark 9:1 are linear....
it doesn't matter anyway, they all died and he NEVER came back
actually, i had a vision last night and JC told me he was coming back on
dec 21 2012:slap:
waitasec
Veteran Member
jml03
Member
Matt. 16:28 and Mark 9:1 are, and if you read scripture you would know this. It is apparent they are speaking of the same instance. You see, the first four books of the New Testament are 4 separate accounts of the acts of Jesus Christ, before He gave His life for you on the cross, and of Him being crucified. Four separate individuals, wrote these four accounts and separate times, and they basically say THE EXACT SAME THING. You would say it was a conspiracy. I'm guessing you will say these four individuals didn't know what they were talking about either. Let me say this, if He weren't the Son of God, why would He do it? Why would He not say "stop, it's not true. i'm sorry." Because He was a better Being than any other human - EVER, and He was telling the truth. Then when He rose again, and all the accounts speak of it. Doubting Thomas has alot in common with nonbelievers. He had to press on the side of His flesh to be sure it was Him. You see, He was unrecognizable. He had been beaten so badly. His beard had been plucked from His face. All the while, He never denied who He was. His love for you was so great, that He knew you would mock Him, deny Him, try to deter His own, and yet he still did it for you. It's too bad that you can't see it. But He did not do it in vain. He brought salvation to many, and the message that He sent is love. So, for those of us that believe on Him, we must love you no matter how wicked you sound.
jonman122
Active Member
What time of day was Jesus crucified?
-At the third hour: "And it was the third hour when they crucified him." (Mark 15:25)
-At least three hours later, because at "about the sixth hour" John says that Jesus was still with Pilate before the Jewish crowd. (John 19:14) Also, Matthew (27:45) and Luke (23:44) have Jesus already on the cross at the sixth hour, so they, too, contradict John's account.
Joseph:
-According to Matthew, Joseph was descended from David's son Solomon through 27 generations (David to Joseph inclusive). (Matthew 1:1-16)
-But according to Luke, Joseph was descended from David's son Nathan through 42 generations (David to Joseph, inclusive). (Luke 3:23-31)
are you trying to say that just because 2 or 3 passages don't contradict, it makes the bible true?
-At the third hour: "And it was the third hour when they crucified him." (Mark 15:25)
-At least three hours later, because at "about the sixth hour" John says that Jesus was still with Pilate before the Jewish crowd. (John 19:14) Also, Matthew (27:45) and Luke (23:44) have Jesus already on the cross at the sixth hour, so they, too, contradict John's account.
Joseph:
-According to Matthew, Joseph was descended from David's son Solomon through 27 generations (David to Joseph inclusive). (Matthew 1:1-16)
-But according to Luke, Joseph was descended from David's son Nathan through 42 generations (David to Joseph, inclusive). (Luke 3:23-31)
are you trying to say that just because 2 or 3 passages don't contradict, it makes the bible true?
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jml03
Member
I wasn't there. But, it happened like He said it would. I have looked at your scriptures. I honestly have no answer - but I don't need one. It sounds more like you do. What is more important here, to me is this:
Mark 15:33-34
And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:37-38
And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Matthew 27:45-46
Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew 27:50-51
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Luke 23:44-46
And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Mark 15:33-34
And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:37-38
And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Matthew 27:45-46
Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew 27:50-51
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Luke 23:44-46
And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
waitasec
Veteran Member
why would you say mark 9:1 is a continuation of matt 16:28, since they are 2 separate accounts?
this is the SAME story told by 2 different accounts...
your buddy is a little confused...
these are the same stories because they both have this in the same chronological order :
the yeast of the pharisees
peters confession and
JC predicts his death precedes
JC predicts they will see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom within their life time, "some of you who are standing here will not taste death"
the transfiguration
they both say: I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
in matthew he mentions being rewarded and angels coming
in mark he says he will be ashamed of those who are ashamed of him and mentions the angels as well
this is the same story, i'm guessing you agree?
this is what i have been saying all along
it doesn't matter does it
he never came back within their life time did he...and they are all dead
so instead of saying;
"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
he should have said:
"I tell you the truth, all who are standing here will taste death before the Son of Man comes in his kingdom.
which would be a pretty BIG let down...
these were apocalyptic times remember, they were waiting for the messiah
if you look at my post #520 and do the research yourself
you will find the same thing in regards to paul expecting to see JC come back in HIS life time... remember paul was JC's contemporary
the gospels were written after these letters
jml03
Member
But He did. He was resurrected. He came back.
waitasec
Veteran Member
nothing happened like he said it would
jews are still waiting for their messiah and the christians are still waiting for their christ to return
you chose to come to this forum and debate
with your own FREE WILL remember
don't take this personally...
waitasec
Veteran Member
no he supposedly ascended into heaven
28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
are you confusing ascending (resurrection) with "coming IN his kingdom"
(2nd coming)
jml03
Member
I don't take the slander personally, but I must say, I find some posts troubling. I honestly hate to read such horrible things about my Lord and Savior. Please forgive them for they know not what they do. And please, there are many MANY prophesies in the bible that have come to fruition. But, then when I list some, we will just go back into this circle of ridiculousness that doesn't seem to get anywhere. Yes the Jews are still waiting. But, I am only waiting for the end times. Jesus did return. He rose from the dead. Then he went into the heavens. Whether you believe or not, it still happened. It is, after all, the freewill that God gave you to believe, or not.
jonman122
Active Member
not really no
jml03
Member
His kingdom is here. It is quite likely that is what He was referring to. Could be that in translation over the thousands of years this book has been around - perhaps a word has been misrepresented. Irrelevant.
His kingdom is also in Heaven, we can go either way on this one. The new Jerusalem will come down on the clouds and rest here for a time.
Also, to us that are saved, what is death anyway? Just the beginning of eternity with our Father. So, yet another way - they did not die in the context of nothingness when they stopped breathing. They were already given eternal life.
These are all just theories, btw. Like I said before, irrelevant to me.
waitasec
Veteran Member
then don't come here
no one is making you, this is your choice
i warned you that this could get ugly, remember?