The Evidence for ID THREAD!!

[A. Leaf]

What year is it? roughly 4675, 1466, 2005 does it depend on faith? ask an astrophysicsist they would probably put on many more zero's. Intelligent Energy (The Soul) that little chunk of God, your inner voice, not the voice in your head, your emotional voice that runs through the body, part of evolution itself, has been in the cosmos for many millenia. The physical world created for that Intelligent Energy to expereince on a physical plain in the name of Love, its a shame that a few individuals in this world have taken advantage of free will, but God Intelligently evolving on the physical plane will overcome the sad few. God an understatement of the word Genius.

 

[Fatmop]

You know, this is an "Evidence for ID thread." What evidence was presented in that post?

Intelligent Energy (The Soul) that little chunk of God, your inner voice, not the voice in your head, your emotional voice that runs through the body, part of evolution itself, has been in the cosmos for many millenia.

That would be evidence... if you could find this "Intelligent Energy," demonstrate its existence in a labaratory, and make some predictions regarding its effects that aren't predicted by other models. As it is, it looks like a bunch of philosophical garbage straight from some Christian website.

The physical world created for that Intelligent Energy to expereince on a physical plain in the name of Love, its a shame that a few individuals in this world have taken advantage of free will, but God Intelligently evolving on the physical plane will overcome the sad few. God an understatement of the word Genius.

This doesn't even make sense and looks just a bit like proselytizing. "God created free will and a few people have 'taken advantage of it?'" Are you saying that even though we have free will, we aren't actually supposed to exercise it? You and I seem to have a very long list of disagreements.

 

[A. Leaf]

Of course we are supposed to exrcise it, but to respect the Intelligence of life (love thy neighbour)
Manipulation and mind control, satanism itself, death by unnatural means, sad and pathetic.
Should the news be full of death, murder, corruption, or should it be of acheivments and positive creations to help us intelligently evolve.
I used to care about this world more than myself, but to be quite honest with you i'm starting to question myself, why do I care? Obviously their seem to be so many people caught up in this greed trap, who's fault i dont blame except the manipulators of the world.
Intelligence, no lightness, no darkness.

 

[Fatmop]

Of course we are supposed to exrcise it, but to respect the Intelligence of life (love thy neighbour)

Vapid. What is the 'intelligence of life?' I would tend to agree that in most cases, humanity should be engaged in helping itself out. But what about in the case of, say, WWII? Hitler was on a rampage. Should we have just said "Nope, we respect his soldiers' intelligence of life, I guess we shouldn't help out!"??

Manipulation and mind control, satanism itself, death by unnatural means

Manipulation certainly isn't always a bad thing. Satanism - I agree, who in their right mind would worship that ugly little cretin? "Unnatural means" - what, exactly, is an unnatural death?

Should the news be full of death, murder, corruption, or should it be of acheivments and positive creations to help us intelligently evolve.

Well, there's plenty of the positive in the news. You just aren't looking hard enough.

However, you have to take both the positive and the negative to improve your society - you have to understand where you're going wrong to be able to fix it!

As for the phrase "Intelligently evolve," FTW does that mean? You've thrown that around twice on the same page now, so would you please define an 'intelligent evolution?'

I used to care about this world more than myself, but to be quite honest with you i'm starting to question myself, why do I care? Obviously their seem to be so many people caught up in this greed trap, who's fault i dont blame except the manipulators of the world.

Who are these manipulators of the world? Bush, perhaps? Blair? (Or in Bush's place, Cheney?)

By the way, explain this 'greed trap' to me.

Intelligence, no lightness, no darkness.

I'm sure you're trying really hard to look deep and insightful, but that's practically meaningless.

And you didn't really answer any of my questions. Could you follow the thread a little more closely? What is the EVIDENCE for an intelligent designer?

 

[Fatmop]

I don't mean to sound harsh, by the way. Please keep posting. (So close to 500 posts...)

 

[A. Leaf]

You are sounding harsh, and i'm not hear to argue with you, a saying I have,
'YOU are of God, Intelligent Energy, A Biological Shell and a mind to Harness the two, Pure Intelligence is that of God and that of YOU',

Maybe when your mind is back in full touch with your soul (intelligent energy, your emotion) you just might find a strange sensation rush through your body, if not, don't worry it will come as the sub consious continues to question the soul. You own self will give you the answers to life,
not me.

God Bless ya for being firm my goodman.

 

[A. Leaf]

It ir suprising how many corporate business's were making money out of the fascist regime of WWII while their own men were being slaughtered on beaches, it's them you should be having a go at, not me.

 

[JerryL]

'YOU are of God, Intelligent Energy, A Biological Shell and a mind to Harness the two, Pure Intelligence is that of God and that of YOU',

I see the assertion, but not the support.

Maybe when your mind is back in full touch with your soul (intelligent energy, your emotion) you just might find a strange sensation rush through your body, if not, don't worry it will come as the sub consious continues to question the soul. You own self will give you the answers to life, not me.

Your support is "I feel a strange sensation". Are you sure it's not something you ate?

It ir suprising how many corporate business's were making money out of the fascist regime of WWII while their own men were being slaughtered on beaches, it's them you should be having a go at, not me.

What does this have to do with ID again?

 

[A. Leaf]

Sorry GerryL (ID again?) just fatmop having ago at me about greed and manipulation

 

[Fatmop]

Sorry GerryL (ID again?) just fatmop having ago at me about greed and manipulation

I understand that greed and manipulation often lead us down immoral paths. However, you seem to have stated that as an absolute - that greed and manipulation are always bad. Logically, I need only find one counter-example to prove you wrong. That's what I was getting at - they aren't always bad, even though a great many instances have been.

Maybe when your mind is back in full touch with your soul (intelligent energy, your emotion)

You still haven't defined 'intelligent energy' or 'intelligent evolution' very clearly. As a matter of fact, you haven't done so at all - except for the vague reference equivalizing it to the soul. Once again, please nail down your terms in more concrete language so we have something to talk about. Otherwise, it honestly just seems like so much gibberish on my end.

 

[Fatmop]

OH - and that doesn't follow the thread at all, either. Where is your actual EVIDENCE for ID? That question has been asked an infuriating amount of times with no satisfactory reply.

 

[Steve]

One argument for ID, a very prominent one, is the argument of the very low odds or probability of life on earth happening if there is not a creator involved. What IDers don't understand is, the Earth came into being (either through creation or pure chance, that part's not really important to this illustration) Then and only then did life start to form ON EARTH.

Um what exactly are is your point about what you presume IDers dont understand?

The environmental factors of the planet are conducive to life, that is why life formed.

:biglaugh:

 

[StaccatoLogic]

I believe God created natural selection. I have no proof for this faith just as no one does, just life experiences. I myself am a moderate Christian who believes God caused the big bang to happen and created evolution. My problem with the IDers is their insistence on passing off ID as science. It's more of a philosophy that can't be proven, rather than a testable theory. Just listen to the ID link provided by Tawn:

http://churchvoices.com/God.html

You can find an audio "lesson" of the teleological argument. The teacher bashes evolution and atheists because of the low chance of the Universe being the way it is yet essentially says the world makes sense because that's the way it is. In my experience a good teacher is someone who is unbiased and presents all possible sides of an argument and lets the students decide. Later in the audio the teacher then proceeds to play the "multiple personalities" game. Doesn't sound like someone sensitive to God's children, just a radical agenda pusher.

 

[Fatmop]

What's so funny, Steve? Not a big believer in abiogenesis?

 

[scitsofreaky]

I think he is laughing because he has no actual arguement to make.

 

[Idontknow]

well meaby somenthing created universe and all that involves i mean the way it works, like when you see a can of coke, theres was needed an "intelligent" person to manufacture it, but i sincerelly dont think any of the large list of gods or THE GOD (that we invented) made universe, at least not the conception that you have of a god, therefore we can only speculate and speculate and speculate like crazy since the answers for this will come along whit science but not at our time arround, so meaby, meaby theres and ID, in this thing we call universe, meaby were just chance, meaby we are just being blind; we gota learn more for sure if we wanna know the answers someday.

PD; everyone seems to think its odd how life evolved so fast in earth... =)

 

[mr.guy]

PD; everyone seems to think its odd how life evolved so fast in earth... =)

Especially compared to how slowly it's evolved on all the other earths...

 

[Steve]

What's so funny, Steve? Not a big believer in abiogenesis?

You hit the nail on the head Fatmop.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Um what exactly are is your point about what you presume IDers dont understand?

IDers don't understand that in order for a theory to be within the scope of scientific inquiry, it must be falsifiable. You could falsify evolution, for example, if you observed modern human fossils which are millions of years old. No observation, however, could possibly falsify the existence of a mysterious, all-powerful and un-defined "designer". That is why ID is not a scientific claim.

 

[Nehustan]

Well I guess I have to comment as I'm a religious bioscientist, so here goes...

Creationism isn't monopolised by the book of Genesis firstly, so lets get that out of the way. Next before we get into the evolution of man, what about the evolution of the solar system? Is that also to be ignored? If we are to take Genesis at face value, working back through the generations to Adam, the personage called 'Adam' in that Book may well have been 'created' by Jahweh, not that long ago, but then who is Jahweh, and who is the God of the other hominids on the planet Re: The Rift Valley.

I think as I believe in The God, The Supreme Architect of the Universe (not just one solar system) I must by default believe in design of a sort, but I think I'll keep this as my faith, which I cannot open to reproduction and thus it cannot be disproved.

As regards to the ever evolving scientific data available to me, that does not now nor shall it ever disprove my FAITH in the infinite and absolute. It may however demand that I research my religious knowledge and sources in light of what evidence is presented to me. Surely if science and religion don't match the fault lies with our understanding, not with science and not with God.