The end is near

[savagewind]

They took no note (24:39) that the activity of mankind can bring the end AND now that Christ who it belongs to to save it has been manifest the Kingdom of God that is for Peace can bring a new beginning because we are all family (One Earth) under one Father (Creator).

I coul;d draw a picture, but I'm on a computer.

 

[JustWondering]

Then there is the Great White Throne Judgment of unbelievers

Why is unbelief such a sin? Do you really think the claims made in the bible are so convincing that unbelievers must be willfully living in denial to reject it? Back in the day miracles happened by the truckload (supposedly). Yet today, when a unbeliever asks for a sign he is rebuked. As if asking for evidence for a claim before believing it is wrong. According to the bible people must act like unquestioning, mindless sheep or they are wrong. Then believers turn around and try to use the old free will arguement as if it makes any sense, which it doesn't. You can keep your doom day predictions and "great" white throne of judgment. I don't need it.

 

[javajo]

Why is unbelief such a sin?

Here is my beliefs...It is the only sin that will keep a person from eternal life, according to the Bible. If the Bible is true and we are all sinners (its obvious to me that I am), but God loved us so much he sent his son to pay the penalty of sin (death, he died) so we may be freely saved, and we reject God's only provision for salvation, his precious gift of his own Son who came here and suffered and died for a fool like me, I believe that's not only a serious snub to Almighty God, but we have rejected the only provision he has made to save us, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12.

Do you really think the claims made in the bible are so convincing that unbelievers must be willfully living in denial to reject it?

God has placed eternity in their hearts, Ecc. 3:11, so everyone, whether they admit it or not cares about how they will spend eternity. God is holy, we are not, we need the righteousness of God freely imputed to us to be able to be with him forever. That's just what the Bible, which I believe is God's Truth, clearly teaches and what anyone's conscience (with knowledge, we know we have done wrong or fallen short of God's holiness), must certainly tell them if they are honest (that God is holy and I am not is a no brainer to me).

Back in the day miracles happened by the truckload (supposedly). Yet today, when a unbeliever asks for a sign he is rebuked. As if asking for evidence for a claim before believing it is wrong. According to the bible people must act like unquestioning, mindless sheep or they are wrong.

Miracles were actually few and far between in the Bible. From the last prophet of the OT (besides John the Baptist), 400 years went by with nothing, same while they lived in slavery in Egypt. The miracles were actually confirmation signs so that when God said something through someone, people knew it was true. Like Jesus healed a man and forgave his sins so they knew by his works that his words were truth. Same with the apostles, they said Christ rose from the dead and did miracles so people believed them. They had the witnesses and wrote it down and now we have that, God's Word of truth and the testimony of many witnesses (not to mention the thousands of changed lives of people throughout history). It would be nice to have some big miracle performed today, but then that wouldn't be faith, would it?

Then believers turn around and try to use the old free will arguement as if it makes any sense, which it doesn't.

I don't know what you mean about the free will deal. I know anyone who desires to be saved can be freely saved without doing anything to earn it or doing anything to keep it or anything in return for it. That sounds pretty good to me.

You can keep your doom day predictions and "great" white throne of judgment. I don't need it.

I don't like dooms day, but it is repeated throughout the Bible over a span of some 1500 years by many different prophets. As God said, Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. Amos 5:18. And I believe it repeats the theme as well, that we will all stand before God and give an account. We will all be standing at that bar very soon. I believe since we have all sinned (I know I have), we are all guilty and the penalty is death, this is not only physical and spiritual, but eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire. But for those who have trusted Christ to have paid the penalty for them and accept his free love gift, the debt has been paid and they are declared justified before God and clothed in His righteousness. That's what I believe. You say to keep it, that you don't need it. That's ok, but I believe we all need Jesus. MUST is a word used by kings, and the King of Kings said, Ye, must be born again! That's the only thing we must do in this life to have the free gift of eternal life forevermore, and we don't born ourselves we are born again of God, God does it all, he does the saving, he does the keeping. OK, peace!

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5

 

[JustWondering]

javajo,

Writing a novel? Instead of writing an incredibly huge post I'll just get to the point. My beliefs...there is no evidence to convince me that any religion I've heard of is true. Its all myths, legends and superstition to me. When I examine supernatural belief systems using reason and common sense they don't hold any water. It also occurs to me that if a super powerful and smart creator god wanted us to belief in him, we would. Period. Nothing in the observable natural world supports any supernatural belief system I know. So doomsday prophecies don't worry or interest me.

 

[savagewind]

javajo,

Writing a novel? Instead of writing an incredibly huge post I'll just get to the point. My beliefs...there is no evidence to convince me that any religion I've heard of is true. Its all myths, legends and superstition to me. When I examine supernatural belief systems using reason and common sense they don't hold any water. It also occurs to me that if a super powerful and smart creator god wanted us to belief in him, we would. Period. Nothing in the observable natural world supports any supernatural belief system I know. So doomsday prophecies don't worry or interest me.

Religion can not be ALL myths, legends and superstition. Isn't that impossible? If nothing Religion stands for is true that would be a miracle in my book.

Religion is people looking at the natural world and making up stories about it. Their stories are not true but what evoked the stories is real. No one person can see it all. So put the stories together, figure them out in your evolving brain and you will get a very good picture of the invisible.

So, like you, I think religion is not good for the religious folks because it tends to stifle but it is good for me because I am a puzzle maker and they own pieces of the puzzle.

Uh, I do not make the pieces as a puzzle maker does, I try to put them together. OK!

 

[jarofthoughts]

Religion can not be ALL myths, legends and superstition. Isn't that impossible? If nothing Religion stands for is true that would be a miracle in my book.

Religion is people looking at the natural world and making up stories about it. Their stories are not true but what evoked the stories is real. No one person can see it all. So put the stories together, figure them out in your evolving brain and you will get a very good picture of the invisible.

So, like you, I think religion is not good for the religious folks because it tends to stifle but it is good for me because I am a puzzle maker and they own pieces of the puzzle.

Uh, I do not make the pieces as a puzzle maker does, I try to put them together. OK!

"Every mystery ever solved has turned out to be...not magic"
- Tim Minchin

 

[savagewind]

"Every mystery ever solved has turned out to be...not magic"
- Tim Minchin

Puzzles are not riddles imo. I think I am good at puzzles but I think I am the worse candidate for riddle solving. That part of my brain is LAZY.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Puzzles are not riddles imo. I think I am good at puzzles but I think I am the worse candidate for riddle solving. That part of my brain is LAZY.

Good thing the above is not a riddle then.
It's a fact.

In other words; there is no reason to think that there is anything magical or supernatural anywhere.

 

[savagewind]

Good thing the above is not a riddle then.
It's a fact.

In other words; there is no reason to think that there is anything magical or supernatural anywhere.

Yes it's a fact but why is the fact reflecting my post? That is the riddle.
So the magic and the supernatural that people have REALLY experienced come from their own brains, all the time, in your opinion, or they are lying. Is that right?

 

[jarofthoughts]

Yes it's a fact but why is the fact reflecting my post? That is the riddle.
So the magic and the supernatural that people have REALLY experienced come from their own brains, all the time, in your opinion, or they are lying. Is that right?

That's where the evidence, or rather, the astounding lack of evidence, is pointing, yes.

I'll give you an example; Let's say you find that things have been moved about in your apartment. You live alone, and you are positive that no-one but you have access to your place except you. And yet, things keep disappearing or you find them somewhere completely different than where you put them.

Explanation #1: You place is haunted and there are spirits moving things around.

Explanation #2: The government is using you in some kind of weird behavioral experiment and every time you leave your apartment they pick the lock and disable your alarm just so they can sneak in and move stuff around.

I've intentionally left out the most obvious explanation, which is that you're a forgetful sodd and have forgotten and exaggerated the events in your mind.

Now, which of the two explanations are the most likely to be true?

Unlikely as it is, of the two, explanation #2 is the most likely for the SOLE reason that we know that it involves things that actually are known to exist.
And seeing as we have absolutely NO evidence that there even exists such a thing as spirits or ghosts, it seems awfully silly to blame ANYTHING on them.

Which means that the only rational stance is to expect everything, no matter how weird or strange, to have a perfectly natural explanation without any supernatural elements at all.

 

[savagewind]

Huh. I like the post but are we in trouble? Seems to be way off topic.

Please start anew, will you? I like the subject but it is yours I believe.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Huh. I like the post but are we in trouble? Seems to be way off topic.

Please start anew, will you? I like the subject but it is yours I believe.

Alright, conceding that I might have misunderstood you, I figured you postulated supernatural explanations for such experiences.
This was based on your 'it can't all be made up' comment.
I was making the counter-argument, that there is no reason to think such explanations have anything going for them.

That was what I was getting at.

 

[javajo]

javajo,

Writing a novel? Instead of writing an incredibly huge post I'll just get to the point. My beliefs...there is no evidence to convince me that any religion I've heard of is true. Its all myths, legends and superstition to me. When I examine supernatural belief systems using reason and common sense they don't hold any water. It also occurs to me that if a super powerful and smart creator god wanted us to belief in him, we would. Period. Nothing in the observable natural world supports any supernatural belief system I know. So doomsday prophecies don't worry or interest me.

Hi, just was trying to explain my beliefs is all. I believe there is evidence of a Creator. I won't go into all of it, but I think this is a wondrous and marvelous creation and that God put in us knowledge of right and wrong. I also believe since the universe had a beginning, therefore a cause, God must be the cause. While I believe in the natural laws of THIS universe, there must be supernatural laws outside this universe and a God who made this one with its own laws. It didn't just happen, there's no way it was an accident, that's impossible. We are here for a purpose. Our lives do have meaning, and God made us and loves us deeply. That's my beliefs short and sweet.

 

[JustWondering]

Hi, just was trying to explain my beliefs is all. I believe there is evidence of a Creator. I won't go into all of it, but I think this is a wondrous and marvelous creation and that God put in us knowledge of right and wrong. I also believe since the universe had a beginning, therefore a cause, God must be the cause. While I believe in the natural laws of THIS universe, there must be supernatural laws outside this universe and a God who made this one with its own laws. It didn't just happen, there's no way it was an accident, that's impossible. We are here for a purpose. Our lives do have meaning, and God made us and loves us deeply. That's my beliefs short and sweet.

Thats cool. I try not to come off as a jerk in my posts but I'm not very successful sometimes. Thats why I set my title as "jerk".

 

[javajo]

Thats cool. I try not to come off as a jerk in my posts but I'm not very successful sometimes. Thats why I set my title as "jerk".

Cool. You didn't come off as a jerk. I respect your answer and sorry I was so lengthy earlier. Outside the realm of the supernatural and prophecies and all, have you heard of the guys that do the countdown to midnight thing? Its interesting, they use different stats and stuff like how many nations now have nukes and just lots of different factors, all from a more 'scientific' analyzing perspective. Big names in that group. Anyway, they have been around for a long time and it used to be they had the clock set to five minutes to midnight, but nowadays its at one minute til. Whatever the hour, for me, I just wanted to be ready, whether I die first or am around for these other events. Since I believe eternal life is a free gift, and I like gifts, I figure that's a good bet. That's just me, though, and I better stop typing!

 

[idav]

Is the probability of the end occurring this year any more realistic than it would have been in August of 2011 or at the turn of the century?

I looked up google skymap to see what it is gonna look like on Dec. 21st around 11ish pm. I noticed all the planets will be aligned with the sun. Is this supposed to mean anything? Are we all gonna go insane?