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The Devil Or Satan ! The Reality !

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by bhakthi, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    The Devil or Satan is Lucifer the son of The Morning Star .He was one of the most magnificent beings God ever created..He was an archangel [Cherubim]holding a very high position in heaven.He became so proud that he wanted to become equal with God and tried to set his throne above God’s throne in heaven, A third of the angels joined him[some say 33 million] in the revolt and they were cast out Because of his pride and rebellion he was cast out from heaven. and came to be known as the Devil or Satan.
    His main job is causing the whole world go astray.He wants to turn the mankind away from God and from the true worship.He always tries to twist the word of God and causes confusion.He came in the garden of Eden and asked Eve “ Did God really tell you not to eat from the tree of knowledge ?” Then he made them to believe just contrary to what God had told them.He deceived them.Soon Adam and Eve found out Satan was wrong and God was right.Ever since he is doing this to all people eveywhere.He came to Jesus and tried to cause confusion saying “If you are the son of God !” three times.But Jesus knew how to answer him.Jesus overcame every time he came against him.
    In the parable of the sowyer Jesus explained after some pople hear the word the Devil comes and steals the word from their heart and makes it unfruitful.
    The Holy Bible calls him a deceiver and a tempter and an.accuser.
    The Lord Jesus said.He was a liar and the father of lies.The the Lord said he was a murderer from the beginning and there is no truth in him. [John ;8]
    He is a great destroyer.A destroyer of families and kingdoms and natioms.
    He is the accuser of the people of God.He accuses them day and night.
    The Bible says the Devil or Satan is the god of this world [age]
    This is why he came to Jesus and tried to tempt him by showing the glory and splendor of all the kingdoms of the earth in a moment and promised Jesus to give them all if Jesus would worship him.Jesus replied Only God deserves to be worshiped. [Luke ;4 ]
    Listen to what the book of Isaiah says about him,.
    "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! or you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. "Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities, Who did not open the house of his prisoners?' Isaiah;14:12-18
    The lake of fire or hell is prepared for the devil and his angels.[Mathew;25]Finally he will end up there.God has already pronounced the judgment on him.This what the Bible tells would happen to him.The Bible reveals the three final stages of his downfall and destruction as follows-
    “Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon. The dragon and his angels also fought, but he could not prevail, and there was no place for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was thrown out--the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the one who deceives the whole world. He was thrown to earth, and his angels with him.” Revelation;12:7-9
    “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. He threw him into the abyss, closed it, and put a seal on it so that he would no longer deceive the nations until the 1,000 years were completed.”Revelation;20:1-3
    “The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”Revelation;20:10
    “ Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And anyone not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”Revelation ;20:15



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  2. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    ummmmmm i'm pretty sure that the quote from Isaiah isn't talking about any fallen angel. I believe it's talking about the king of babylon:sarcastic
     
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  3. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes i think you are right ,the babylon dynasty had the same attitute as satan
    Lucifer" refers to a human, not to a spirit creature
    Selfish pride prompted Babylon’s kings to elevate themselves above those around them
    The pride of the Babylonian rulers indeed reflected the attitude of "the god of this system of things"—Satan the Devil. (2 Corinthians 4:4) He too lusts for power and longs to place himself above Jehovah God. But Lucifer is not a name Scripturally given to Satan as you said.
     
  4. ashai

    ashai Active Member

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    Ushta jewscout

    Actually it was the king of Tyre, but the point is the same. This is no devil:tsk:

    Ushta te
    Ashai
     
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  5. standing_on_one_foot

    standing_on_one_foot Well-Known Member

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    Did this rebellion take place after the story of Job? 'Cause he and G-d seem to be getting along alright there, if I recall correctly.

    Out of curiosity, where is it mentioned that it's Satan who's in the Garden?
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. revelation 12 ;9
    (Genesis 3:1) Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: "Is it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?"​

    (2 Corinthians 11:3) But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, YOUR minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ..................
    The Scriptures indicate that the creature known as Satan did not always have that name. Rather, this descriptive name was given to him because of his taking a course of opposition and resistance to God.
    Jesus Christ said of him: "That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him." (Joh 8:44; 1Jo 3:8) when he began his opposition and resistance he became satan, many people say that this verse is saying that he was created that way,but it is refering to his rebellion not to how he was created.............he was a manslayer because he brought death to Adam and Eve

     
  7. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    hmmmm i coulda sworn it was babylon....i'll double check you could be right...
     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    i dont think they were getting on alright, satan was taunting Jehovah by saying that the good man Job only loved him because of all the good things God gave him
    Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me. proverbs 27;11 the one who is taunting Jehovah is satan, but Jehovahs heart rejoices when men do not curse God when bad things happen to them .
     
  9. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    I'm certain it refers to Nebuchadnezzar. He was the king of Babylon.
    He was doing that in the service of God. I'm pretty sure it was his task to do these things...to test them. I've seen in numerous documentaries and read in numerous places that Satan worked for God. Could somebody point me to some scripture that says 1/3 of the angels fell? I'd like to read it for myself.
     
  10. ashai

    ashai Active Member

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    Ushta

    I guess I will have to look it up! Darn my memory she is a going:biglaugh:
     
  11. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    The scripture certainly refers to the King of Babylon, but he is being compared to Lucifer, who is the fallen of angel better known as Satan or the Devil.
     
  12. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the name satan itself means
    Adversary
    this descriptive name was given to him because of his taking a course of opposition and resistance to God. notice in Job , Job 1 6-7 Jehovah questions Satan as to where he has been and what he has been up to .
    Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.( yes even the resister of Jehovah was there, no wonder Jehovah questioned him)​
    Then Jehovah said to Satan: "Where do you come from?" At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: "From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it. it seems to me that if he was doing the work that the other spirit creatures were doing (being faithful to God) there would have been no reason to question him , but he had been off doing his own thing.....regarding the third of the angels
    And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child."—Revelation 12:3, 4. is this the verse you mean about the third , even though it does not say angels here in this verse , stars are sometimes reffered to as angels. as in JOB 38;7


    When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,​


    And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?
     
  13. standing_on_one_foot

    standing_on_one_foot Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. I thought that traditionally he's given the name "the opposer" because he's opposing humans, not G-d (G-d's prosecuting attorney?). If Satan's as important an angel as you say he is, I wouldn't be surprised that G-d talks to him. And G-d is the one who brings Job up in the first place in the conversation, and gives Satan permission to test him. It's the permission bit in particular that gets me there.

    So there's no direct mention that Satan and the serpent in the Garden are one and the same? That's mostly what I was wondering.
     
  14. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes he is an opposer of humans , but he is opposing God also, and anyone who wants to do Gods will ,will be in the line of fire, as Job was , and Adam and Eve were, but they did not keep interity to God, there is a bigger issue going on, it is the issue of universal sovreignty , who has the right to rule satan or God . Jehovah God is allowing satan to rule for a time, but the issue will be resolved in the end ,it will be proved in the end that Jehovah is the universal sovereign
    This issue was raised when rebellion broke out in Eden. when satan said
    Is it really so that God said you must not eat from every tree of the garden?
    Then Satan directly charged Jehovah with lying, saying that neither Eve’s life nor Adam’s life was dependent on obedience to God. that issue is still on going
    He challenged God’s way of ruling.
    The question was raised: Which is better for humans, Jehovah’s way of ruling or rulership independent of him?
    Satan’s attack on Jehovah’s right to rule did not stop with what took place in Eden. He called into question loyalty to Jehovah on the part of others. This became a closely related secondary issue. His challenge reached out to include both the offspring of Adam and Eve and all the spirit sons of God, even Jehovah’s dearly loved firstborn Son.

     
  15. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    But this is revelations. Isn't revelations a prophecy? That would mean this has not yet happened.
    If you have evidence of this, please share.
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    many of the things in the book of revelation have already happened , we have been living in the Lords day since 1914 . we are living in the time of the end right now, its all happening , ...thrilling times indeed....
    And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant Daniel 12;4 many of the prophecies in the book of Daniel and the book of revelation are very much connected, the Lords day started in 1914 and things are now very much along inline with bible prophecies
    (Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. but maybe that is for another thread..... so getting back to satan ,he now has great anger because he knows he has a short period of time left
    on this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you , having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time. ....revelation 12;12
    (Romans 16:20) For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.
     
  17. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    The evidence is in the scripture itself, which can easily be cross referenced to other scriptures which teach the same thing without giving the name Lucifer.
     
  18. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    Lucifer isn't even a name until the 5th century...

    Lucifer is a Latin word made up of two words, lux (light; genitive lucis) and ferre (to bear, to bring), meaning light-bearer. Lucifer appears in Greek mythology as heosphoros, the "Dawn-bringer"; it is used by poets to represent the Morning Star at moments when "Venus" would introduce distracting imagery of the goddess. "Lucifer" does not appear in most modern translations of the Christian Bible. The name is considered to have been a mistranslation that gave rise to an erroneous and non-Biblical 5th century tradition in order to explain it. "Lucifer" is Jerome's direct translation in his Vulgate (4th century) of the Septuagint's Greek translation, as heosphoros, "morning star" or "Day Star," literally "bringer of the Dawn", of a phrase in Isaiah 14:12, where it is used to refer to the Babylonian king by one of his popular honorific titles
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

    as the refernce shows it was a title similar to Louis XIV's "Sun King" nick-name.
     
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  19. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    I am certain that Lucifer or the "Lord of the Morning Star" referred to the Babylonian king too, in Isaiah.

    It is most likely that the fall of the morning star, actually refer to him become the wild-man, which was told in the Book of Daniel - from the highest (emperor) to the lowest (madman).

    As to the other angels falling with Satan, there are not a single reference to this event in the Hebrew Scripture or to the Christian Old Testament. It is found in the Haggada, Chapter 2, in the section titled "Fall of Satan", but the Haggada is not very reliable, and it was written at the time when Zoroastrianism have embedded itself in Judaism and later with Christianity.

    Actually the Haggada only refers to a "host of angels", but gives no figure like "a third of heaven".
     
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  20. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Luciferians know pretty well that it's a story that's been told before. If the evidence is in the scripture, then provide it. From all that I've read, it is simply a mistranslation...

    Very nice!

    Thank you very much! I was pretty sure it wasn't in a standard bible (or at least the one I have). People have always mentioned it, but you are the first to actually point to it, which should really be no surprise since you're username is gnostic. Thank you, again.
     
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