The crucified saviors of the world

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Jayhawker-I am a mechanic at a military base, divorced, father of two little girls who I have all the time, possessing only a basic High School education with some community college in a vocational skill. I don't have the time or money to pursue things like some people.

You have time and money to play on the internet.

You wrote: ...

I'm reading a book called The Sixteen Crucified Savior of the World by Kersey Graves. He claims ... Has anyone else read this book?

It took me less than a minute and zero money to google Kersey Graves, something that apparently never occurred to you. Call it what you will: what you're doing is not research.

My regards to your children.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

I refuse to follow any religion because it tells me to have blind faith and until one provides some historical proof that their godmen really walk the Earth I'll continue doing my "research"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I refuse to follow any religion because it tells me to have blind faith and until one provides some historical proof that their godmen really walk the Earth I'll continue doing my "research"

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

On what basis are you making this claim? There is little in common between the torah/NT & Hindu scripture.

I respect both Krishna and Jesus, but I see little similarity between them.

I guess that was just more cyberlore that I bought into by people that were trying to discredit Christianity

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

You have time and money to play on the internet


My regards to your children.

My phone has internet and only cost $50 dollars a month. My kids will be raised to make up their own mind. I was raised Southern Baptist and hated it. All you hear in those churches are Hellfire and Brimstone sermons. Plus my oldest daughter is of mixed race and 50 years ago those churches said that was a sin. So I won't have my daughters in that type of environment.

 

[Tristesse]

Here is a link. It just shows some of the gods similar to Jesus. It would be too much to type on my little phone.
Investigating the Similarities between Jesus and Pagan Figures

I'm sure you didn't mean to post that link, if you did, you might want to skim through it. Because it's not in favor of of the view you've presented. Besides, if the sole perpose of starting this thread was to show that christianity is not reliable or most likely not true, there are way better things to bring up, rather than this.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

For what it's worth, I applaud your spirit of inquiry and find Jaywalker's attitude towards you in this thread incomprehensible.

Keep on truckin'.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

I'm sure you didn't mean to post that link, if you did, you might want to skim through it. Because it's not in favor of of the view you've presented. Besides, if the sole perpose of starting this thread was to show that christianity is not reliable or most likely not true, there are way better things to bring up, rather than this.

Yes that was a mistake. They are so many sites on the subject I thought that was the correct one.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

For what it's worth, I applaud your spirit of inquiry and find Jaywalker's attitude towards you in this thread incomprehensible.

Keep on truckin'.

I love the wisdom found in all religious material. I've been reading some stuff on the Talmud and the Kabbalah. I plan to start on Hinduism next. Judaism and Hinduism interested me a lot since they are both older than Christianity. I even downloaded the Koran (it was free too lol).

 

[waitasec]

this summer break i had my son, who is now graduating to 3rd grade, work from this series called brainquest work book...just to keep him in step. well in the reading and comprehension section of the book there was a story called baucis and philemon, greek mythology...i never heard of this story, or maybe i did but certainly do not remember it. so what the heck, why not have him read the story and answer some comprehension questions, right?

for those of you who do not know the story, here's a cliffs note version:
baucis and philemon were an old couple..who were also very poor.
zeus testing the piety of the people disguised himself as a beggar. he was shunned by everyone except from this couple who gave him all they had.
zeus rewarded them by transforming their home into a palace and transformed their empty cupboards with an abundance of food...and when they died they transformed into 2 embracing trees one that was a linden tree and the other oak which grew from one trunk...

when i read it i immediately went to google and found out who wrote this story and when...


this story was created by a roman poet known as ovid.
in a narrative poem called metamorphoses written in 15 books completed in 8 ce. this particular one is found in book 8
Metamorphoses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ok so what is my point....?

i'll use the good samaritan story, told by jesus as a comparison...in the gospel of luke who wrote from a roman greco POV of jesus, no less
both show piety is a virtue...and something that will be rewarded (“what must I do to inherit eternal life?&#8221. what jesus taught, in this parable, was not a novel idea by any means....

i highly believe that greek/roman mythology played an important role in the society where this new christian religion was emerging and i really do believe that greek/roman mythology influenced the christian theology...

 

[waitasec]

For what it's worth, I applaud your spirit of inquiry and find Jaywalker's attitude towards you in this thread incomprehensible.

Keep on truckin'.

i agree!!!

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

Most people have faith in someone else's faith. They believe they know because they have beliefs that have been given to them. While this is entirely satisfactory in some aspects of life, for example if someone tells you what they know about Aruba from their readings, it is unlikely that you will have a need or desire to check their facts, you are satisfied with their account. However, It is highly unsatisfactory when it comes to the truly important aspects of life: the ultimate nature of oneself, the Cosmos, and the Divine.
In rejecting the answers of the Believers, the Agnostic withholds belief, and knows that he does not know. Someone who mistakes belief for knowledge, as most do in this world, will wrestle with the question of existence in the manner of belief: seeking stronger belief and assuaging doubts. It does not occur to Believers that they do not know, it only occurs to them that they do not believe. Thus an Agnostic has made a great deal of progress towards becoming a Gnostic, and has developed the attitude a Gnostic must have. For while a Gnostic knows from experience (has gnosis of), there is so much that a Gnostic does not know (has no gnosis of), and in these matters must maintain the attitude of an Agnostic. We can turn to scripture, tradition, and others for guidance in those aspects for which we personally have no Gnosis, but we cannot have Gnosis of someone else's Gnosis.
To know that one does not know is the starting point of the path of Gnosis.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Thus an Agnostic has made a great deal of progress towards becoming a Gnostic, and has developed the attitude a Gnostic must have

Beautiful. And true.

Truly, doubt led me to a knowledge beyond either belief or unbelief.

 

[waitasec]

frubes to you both!!!

 

[Shermana]

I'm reading a book called The Sixteen Crucified Savior of the World by Kersey Graves. He claims there are multiple messiahs all sharing similar stories to Jesus's. Some are almost identical. Same birthday, same resurrection day, even immaculate conception......etc. Since they pre-date Christianity this suggest that religions have borrowed from each other since the beginning. The first seems to be the secretive Mithraic religion.

Has anyone else read this book?

I would love to see the source documents for these crucified savior stories that aren't just from some anti-Christian writer, that'd be great. But I understand that getting proof for beliefs can be just as hard against any other faiths as it is with "Christians" so I won't be holding my breath.

Basically what we have is the "Zeitgeist" style sensationalism, lots of claims, without any attempt to back those claims. You'd think anti-Christians would be more concerned about sourcing their beliefs but hey, that's how it goes.

 

[Shermana]

Every doctrine in the Old Testament and New Testament can be found in Hindu holy books so it would seem even Judaism has an Eastern origin.

Really? Would you like to retract that now before I ask you to list 20 things with a source to Hinduism that are totally unique to Judaism like a prohibition on men sleeping with their women during their cycles? Feel free to show where Hinduism requires the growth of side locks (Peyot)..

 

[Shuddhasattva]

like a prohibition on men sleeping with their women during their cycles?

That's prohibited in Hinduism too, by and large, although actually mandated by some tantric rituals practiced by antinomian sects where the menstrual substance, far from being seen as polluted, is seen as a spiritual essence of the divine feminine.

Feel free to show where Hinduism requires the growth of side locks (Peyot)

You mean kinda like this...?

Yes, that is not a turban on his head.


Yes, I know it's on the same as payot and done for different reasons. I'm certainly not arguing that Judaism and Hinduism are anywhere near similar.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

Really? Would you like to retract that now before I ask you to list 20 things with a source to Hinduism that are totally unique to Judaism like a prohibition on men sleeping with their women during their cycles? Feel free to show where Hinduism requires the growth of side locks (Peyot)..

I would like to withdraw my statement when I said every doctrine was the same. I do think that Christianity borrowed from many religions and that is why I'm looking into the matter.

 

[Shermana]

That's prohibited in Hinduism too, by and large, although actually mandated by some tantric rituals practiced by antinomian sects where the menstrual substance, far from being seen as polluted, is seen as a spiritual essence of the divine feminine.

I would absolutely love to see where Hinduism forbids relations with a woman during her cycle, this would be excellent to show that it's not some "crazy" idea totally unique to us but something other people got the same right idea about. However, I am not convinced that every idea of Judaism has a relation to Hinduism if this is so, for there are still plenty of things I'm sure you won't find similarities to.

You mean kinda like this...?

I think I see more beard than I do sidelocks. I'm a fan of bearding, don't get me wrong, I wish mine was that flowing but I don't think those are Peyot unless they are hiding them.

Yes, I know it's on the same as payot and done for different reasons. I'm certainly not arguing that Judaism and Hinduism are anywhere near similar.

Well if it's not the same, then there's a clear difference. That was my point, that they're not similar.

 

[Shermana]

I would like to withdraw my statement when I said every doctrine was the same. I do think that Christianity borrowed from many religions and that is why I'm looking into the matter.

Later Orthodox Christianity definitely absorbed many pagan functions and ideas especially by the Egyptian Syncretists, but the Nazarenes and Ebionites (i.e. closest thing to original Jerusalem "Church") didn't really borrow anything, they stayed the same as their respective sect-style Torah obedience. Christianity if anything wasn't supposed to be a new religion per se but an expansion of Judaism, only later during the gentile schisms around the end of the century did it radically mongrelize.