The crucified saviors of the world

[Quagmire]

Sorry I didn't read it Quagmire. I thought it was the site I was looking for.
@Me Myself....I was going by what Graves said. Apparently he isn't a very good source LOL

No probs, NeedingGnosisNow. I think if you look into this whole topic a little further you'll find that most of the alleged similarities come down to what amounts to cyber-lore.

 

[Astravalon]

I`ve been thinking for a while that Jesus simply had some Krishna inluence

Like when he says that with enough faith you can move mountains: Krishna moved a mountain as a kid to protect his town if I am not mistaken.

:yes: That too -- the mountain. Thank you for reminding me!

Whenever I see artwork depicting Krishna holding up Mount Govardhan, I think of that verse about moving mountains.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

What about Rev. Robert Taylor? Valid or insane?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_(Radical)

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

I ran across a book while searching for Bart Erhman called Misrepresenting Jesus: Debunking Bart Erhman's Misqouting Jesus. Seems everyone has a critic.

 

[fallingblood]

Awhile back, I had watched an old Bollywood movie from 1979 on YouTube about Krishna ("Gopaal Krishna"), and noticed some things in the film's version of the Krishna story which reminded me of incidents connected to Jesus/Yahweh:

There are some similarities to be certain. However, most are either extremely vague and fit nearly all, or simply are based on misinformation.

● A King wanting to destroy a messiah-child who has been prophesied to destroy the King

This one can be certain to not have been historical for Jesus. There are not other accounts of the event in historical writings, and it is only recorded once in the Gospels. And the reason is quite easy. Such a description is basic mythology. So it isn't too surprising it was placed on Jesus as well.

● Prison locks popping open and prison guards falling asleep to permit prisoner’s escape

This never happened with Jesus.

● Parting of waters to permit crossing

Never happened with Jesus.

● The King ordering all newborn babies killed in order to ensure the messiah child hidden among them doesn’t live.

Same as first one.

● Krishna tells Radha (His female companion), "Oh Radha, I am in you and you are in Me." Just like Jesus saying "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you." (John 14:20) and "Remain in me, and I will remain in you. " (John 15:4)

Actually it is a little difference. One is talking to a certain individual, while the other is talking to a larger perspective. Both same idea though. And one can find various similarities in sayings with Jesus and Eastern teachings (Buddha being a great example).

But then again, we can find many similar teachings within many different religions.

● Krishna casts out various demons (more territorial than personal, such as one that was poisoning the river as a multi-headed cobra-like serpent and another that took the form of a bull and attacked the cowherders.

This again is somewhat standard in ancient times. We see many religious teachers casting out demons, and it makes sense looking at the time period and beliefs. We still see this today, where people think demons are everywhere.

● The incident involving the above-mentioned serpent, Kaliya, is similar to one referred to in Psalm 74:13-14, where Yahweh is said to have "broken the heads of the monster in the waters", and "crushed the heads of Leviathan".

But that is God, and not Jesus. Also, the Psalms isn't meant to be taken as an actual event.

● Krishna loves and shepherds His cows like Jesus does His sheep.

And religious teachers usually do love and shepherd their followers.

I thought the similarities were kinda cool.

Some of the similarities are cool. I especially find the various sayings between various religious leaders is very interesting. But one does have to use caution.

 

[fallingblood]

I ran across a book while searching for Bart Erhman called Misrepresenting Jesus: Debunking Bart Erhman's Misqouting Jesus. Seems everyone has a critic.

He does have his critics, and most scholars have the same type of critiques thrown at them because of people fear they are attacking religion just to get rid of it. So it is more out of fear than anything else.

But Ehrman usually stays within what is agreed up in modern scholarship. He does have some of his own ideas, and he does support those very well.

As for Robert Taylor, I would probably say he isn't too accurate because he is so out dated.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

I think it was Robert Taylor that said Christianity stole from the Essenes. That's why I brought him up.

 

[Astravalon]

This never happened with Jesus.

Prisons opening and prison guards falling asleep to permit prisoner’s escape was a Yahweh (God)-associated one. Remember, I mentioned that these reminded me of incidents associated with Yahweh as well as Jesus. The prison thing can be found in Acts.

Never happened with Jesus.

The Parting of waters to permit crossing was said to have been done by Yahweh (God) -- the Red Sea.

Actually it is a little difference. One is talking to a certain individual, while the other is talking to a larger perspective. Both same idea though.

Definitely differences, which is why I mentioned that they reminded me of each other, not that they were exact matches of each other.

And one can find various similarities in sayings with Jesus and Eastern teachings (Buddha being a great example). But then again, we can find many similar teachings within many different religions.

Exactly, which I think is the basic point of the OP.

But that is God, and not Jesus. Also, the Psalms isn't meant to be taken as an actual event.

Again, I mentioned that they reminded me of things associated with God (Yahweh) in my previous post.

I'm also not arguing whether or not the events were actual, just that they reminded me of each other

And religious teachers usually do love and shepherd their followers.

Exactly!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thanks Iridescence. Wish I could find a more reliable source than Graves though for my research. Does anyone know of any?

No you don't. To call what you're doing "research" is absurd.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

To say it isn't research is absurd.

Definition of research:1 : careful or diligent search
2 : studious inquiry or examination; especially : investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts, revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new or revised theories or laws
3 : the collecting of information about a particular subject

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

Also
re :1.*a prefix, occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, used with the meaning “again” or “again and again” to indicate repetition

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

To call what you're doing "research" is absurd.

Are you angry with me or this topic? Do you wish for me to stop my "research" for some reason? I appreciate any helpful suggestions

 

[fallingblood]

Prisons opening and prison guards falling asleep to permit prisoner’s escape was a Yahweh (God)-associated one. Remember, I mentioned that these reminded me of incidents associated with Yahweh as well as Jesus. The prison thing can be found in Acts.

Point taken. I missed where you mentioned Yahweh.

 

[fallingblood]

I think it was Robert Taylor that said Christianity stole from the Essenes. That's why I brought him up.

If memory serves me correctly, it was around the time of Taylor (if he is the one I'm thinking about), that there were various claims about the Essenes. The problem was that we knew very very little about this group. Since then, we have found a lot more writings in which we can learn about the Essenes, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Now, Christianity did borrow from other ideas. And it definitely was at some points influenced by Greek ideas.

A good work on this subject is L. Michael White's book "From Jesus to Christianity." You can also check out: From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS It has a plethora of good information about the development (at least the early development) of Christianity, and I believe you can actually watch the program online as well.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

Thanks fallingblood

 

[waitasec]

No you don't. To call what you're doing "research" is absurd.

come on...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Are you angry with me or this topic?

Gross, willful gullibility irritates the hell out of me.

I appreciate any helpful suggestions

Learn discernment and resist confirmation bias.

 

[waitasec]

from what i see NeedingGnosisNow can discern confirmed biases...
chill out jay....this thread could have god down hill real fast had NeedingGnosisNow wasn't opened to those that questioned the validity of the book he was reading

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

@Jayhawker-I am a mechanic at a military base, divorced, father of two little girls who I have all the time, possessing only a basic High School education with some community college in a vocational skill. I don't have the time or money to pursue things like some people. I downloaded Graves book because it was free and sounded interesting. I came on here to get the opinions of people that were more knowledgable on the subject.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Every doctrine in the Old Testament and New Testament can be found in Hindu holy books so it would seem even Judaism has an Eastern origin. Chrishna is one of the messiahs that are almost identical to Jesus. Because that religion is older doesn't it seem like there is a lot of borrowing that happened?

On what basis are you making this claim? There is little in common between the torah/NT & Hindu scripture.

I respect both Krishna and Jesus, but I see little similarity between them.