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Featured The cross and crucifixion

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by We Never Know, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    History of the cross and crucifixion.

    In antiquity crucifixion was considered one of the most brutal and shameful modes of death. Probably originating with the Assyrians and Babylonians, it was used systematically by the Persians in the 6th century BC. Alexander the Great brought it from there to the eastern Mediterranean countries in the 4th century BC, and the Phoenicians introduced it to Rome in the 3rd century BC. It was virtually never used in pre-Hellenic Greece. The Romans perfected crucifixion for 500 years until it was abolished by Constantine I in the 4th century AD. Crucifixion in Roman times was applied mostly to slaves, disgraced soldiers, Christians and foreigners--only very rarely to Roman citizens.

    Whether you believe jesus existed or not, why do you think people strongly associate the cross to/with jesus and really no one else?
     
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  2. Vouthon

    Vouthon Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
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    It owes, simply, to the fact that he was history's most famous victim of this form of execution and thus has become synonymous with it through the adoption of the cross as the symbol of Christianity, the world's largest religion.
     
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  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I would say it in the other way around.
    :);)

    Given that hundreds of thousands of people were crucified before Christ was even born, why do we Christians consider it such an exclusive penalty (as if Jesus only underwent it)?

    Because before Christianity people used to think it it was a normal thing. That it was even rightful to execute people with crucifixion.

    So therefore, we wonder what kind of men used to live before Christianity. Men who tolerated something so monstrous and inhumane.

    It is the evidence that mankind has evolved thanks to Christianity.
     
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  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Crucifixion in rome was reserved mostly for traitors and terrorists.

    The Spartacus thing, crucifixion was not because it was slaves (slaves were valuable) but because they betrayed the roman system. Most times, if a slave was guilty of some crime they would be used to entertain the citizens in the arena.

    Rome accepted all religions and expected peope to accept the religions accepted by rome. Christianity opposed Roman religion and also contested the deity of the emperor. Also seen as treacherous to rome.

    Why i believe jesus was crucified was because, like many christians he was guilty of betraying rome, hence the traitors death.

    As to why its associated with him, i guess its a rallying cry to make him a martyr.
     
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  5. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    the thing is evidence suggests than Jesus did not get hung on a cross . not saying no one was killed that way ,in fact many have . its a slow torchers way to die, could take days for some one to die , mostly from dehydration .
    Jesus and the other two did not have days to hang there . they were to die in hours not days. which is why the legs would be broken to make them die even quicker .
     
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  6. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    The worst offenders often seemed to get the hung, drawn, and quartered routine, so perhaps Jesus wasn't seen as that important at the time, and perhaps thankful for being that given that such would probably be more difficult to arrange as a symbol. :oops:
     
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  7. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Actually, crucifixion was originally associated with the pagan goddess Eostre who crucified some bunnies for stealing her freshly made Eggs Benedict. She then felt guilty at her overreaction and made the bunnies magically rise from the dead a few days later. The pagans used this story to symbolise the vernal equinox and the rebirth of nature in spring.

    The Christians stole the crucifixion, resurrection, eggs and bunnies as some kind of devious marketing ploy to sell their new religion to the yokels and then ushered in the Dark Ages where they destroyed all knowledge so people forgot, innit? :smirk:
     
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  8. Rival

    Rival Inodj har-ek Horu
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    You missed the part about the evil fox tyrant suddenly turning into a puppy who loved the bunnies.
     
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  9. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Question; In the Gospel of John Jesus' ministry lasted not 1 but 3 years. That would mean 3 Passovers. Assuming Jesus was the same trouble making prophet each time he went to Jerusalem for Passover, drawing outrage from both religious and political establishment, what was different the final year that led to his crucifixion?
     
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  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Seriously?

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    Jesus' disciple that hung beside jesus' wanted to be hung upside down. Is that unusual for Rome to do that? (Did they?)
     
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  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein On the funeral pyre of existence
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    Tell that to the Druids. Oh, wait.
     
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  12. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Read the rest of my post. It worked both ways, those druids who accepted rome did well.
     
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  13. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein On the funeral pyre of existence
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    Which ones? They were wiped out, afaik.
     
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  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Those that capitulated to roman rule.

    In Britania see Cogidubnus and the Regni and Cunobeline and the Trinovantes and Catuvellauni tribes.

    These were not wiped out but absorbed into rome
     
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  15. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Oh yeah. Peter, wasn’t it?
    The story goes he saw himself as unworthy of dying the same way Jesus did. And requested he be crucified upside down. Which is a bit odd now that I think of it. Surely there were other death methods at the time. Ehh, maybe it wasn’t that bad. The upside Cross is his symbol, right?
    Although some contend the Romans did that to him on purpose in order to humiliate him and his beliefs. So you know
     
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  16. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Nope! it was because Jesus had antagonised the Jewish authorities and they wanted him dead, if it had been anyone else they would have stoned him to death as they did with the innocent Stephen, but because Jesus had become so popular with the public, they used the Romans as their weapon to destroy their antagonist.

    Pontus Pilate wanted to release him, but the Jewish authorities shouted back, “If you set him free, that means that you are not the Emperor's friend! Anyone who claims to be a king is a rebel against the Emperor!” See John 19: 12.

    They then stirred up the crowd so much, Pilate was afraid that a riot was about to break out, See Matthew 27: 22-25; “What, then, shall I do with Jesus called the Messiah?” Pilate asked them. “Crucify him!” they all answered. But Pilate asked, “What crime has he committed?”

    Then they started shouting at the top of their voices: “Crucify him!” When Pilate saw that it was no use to go on, but that a riot might break out, he took some water, washed his hands in front of the crowd, and said, “I am not responsible for the death of this man! This is your doing!”

    The whole crowd answered, “Let the responsibility for his death fall on us and our children!”

    Although Jesus cried out; "Forgive them father for they know not what they do." Our heavenly Father, who demands Justice, a few years later, in 70 A.D., fulfilled their request, by means of the same weapon that they used to kill Jesus.
     
    #16 The Anointed, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  17. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    *Christians burn people at the stake for steadfastly refusing to toe the official line* -
    "OMG their evil religion poisons everything and is a stain on humanity! Imagine killing people simply because they repeatedly refused to toe the official line! "

    *Romans burn people at the stake for steadfastly refusing to toe the official line* -
    "I mean they pretty much deserved it, didn't they? All they had to do to avoid a hideous death was simply toe the official line. Can't get more tolerant than that!"

    :D
     
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  18. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    When you speak of the Romans who burnt people at the stake, I presume you are referring to The Roman church of Emperor Constantine and not the Romans of the early first century A.D, whose favorite form of execution was to let the offender Hang on a stake until they died, as was the fate of Jesus, who the Jewish authorities used as their weapon to kill their oppressor, 'The man Jesus,' as revealed in post #16.
     
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  19. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Diocletian, Galerius, etc. on the Manichaeans for example:

    We should be afraid that they might attempt, as is their wont, to corrupt men of more innocent natures, the modest and tranquil Roman race, and the whole of our empire with the deplorable customs and sinister laws of the Persians as if by the poisons from their own malevolence.

    We command that their authors and heads be subjected to the harshest punishment; that is, to be consumed by the burning flames along with their condemnable writings. Furthermore we direct that their adherents receive capital punishment, so long as they are troublesome, and we decree that their wealth be appropriated to our treasury. If any officeholder or individual of any standing or persons of great repute convert to this hitherto unheard-of, foul, and entirely disgraceful sect, or to the religion of the Persians, you must make sure to transfer their property to our treasury and send them to the Phaenensian or Proconnesian mines.


    On this day in 302 Diocletian issued his edict on Manicheanism - Mint Imperials

    Or

    Diocletianic Persecution - Wikipedia
     
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  20. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    If Christianity did not have the extremely good fortune of being chosen by Constantine to be the official religion of the Roman empire (out of four candidates) we'd never have heard of Jesus or the cross and would likely be worshiping Mithra today.
     
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