The creator did it.

[shunyadragon]

Bear with me and let's us keep it simple, when you look at your watch to tell the time, how is the watch measuring time? That's all I am asking you to do.

There are no bears in the discussion.

No that is not ALL you are asking me to do. You are asking me to provide you with crutches on basics of measuring time.

The watch is simply measuring time set based on the astronomy of our solar system. Time is simply based on measuring movement whether planets or photons .Where there is movement over a period of time it can be objectively measured. Your still not up to elementary school level of measuring time. The measuring of time for example the speed of light is based very accurate sound measurements of time in physics.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There are no bears in the discussion.

No that is not ALL you are asking me to do. You are asking me to provide you with crutches on basics of measuring time.

The watch is simply measuring time set based on the astronomy of our solar system. Time is simply based on measuring movement whether planets or photons .Where there is movement over a period of time it can be objectively measured. Your still not up to elementary school level of measuring time. The measuring of time for example the speed of light is based very accurate sound measurements of time in physics.

Planets moving in their regular orbits is merely the way the universe is, as I keep reminding you, this universe keeps on existing and does not cease existing, therefore the planets keep on going in their orbits. The observation of such regular movements allows man to synchronize their life around these cycles as years, days, etc. and we call it time. However there is no entity time, the movement of the planets is a physical fact, it is not time, the 'time' concept arises only in the mind of man to denote the phenomena of continuous changing of his environment of light and dark, cold and warm, etc, etc.

To recap, the movement of anything in the universe..planets, stars, pendulums, electrons, etc., is not 'time', humans create the concept that it is a measurement of time, which in fact is only a measure of natural cycles of cosmic nature.

 

[shunyadragon]

Planets moving in their regular orbits is merely the way the universe is, as I keep reminding you, this universe keeps on existing and does not cease existing, therefore the planets keep on going in their orbits. The observation of such regular movements allows man to synchronize their life around these cycles as years, days, etc. and we call it time.

True, except the universe does not necessarily keep on existing, but what you are describing is time we measure.

However there is no entity time, the movement of the planets is a physical fact, it is not time, the 'time' concept arises only in the mind of man to denote the phenomena of continuous changing of his environment of light and dark, cold and warm, etc, etc.

Time measures movement as a matter of fact. No the movement over time is time regardless of our even existing. and is a physical fact as is the speed of light will be photons moving over time is the speed of light regardless of whether we are present or not. Yes what you describe happens with movement and can be objectively measured as time.

To recap, the movement of anything in the universe..planets, stars, pendulums, electrons, etc., is not 'time', humans create the concept that it is a measurement of time, which in fact is only a measure of natural cycles of cosmic nature.

Here is where you get an F in any basic science including physics. What we humans measure is the natural movement and cycles in our universe we are objectively measure.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

True, except the universe does not necessarily keep on existing, but what you are describing is time we measure.

Time measures movement as a matter of fact. No the movement over time is time regardless of our even existing. and is a physical fact as is the speed of light will be photons moving over time is the speed of light regardless of whether we are present or not. Yes what you describe happens with movement and can be objectively measured as time.

Here is where you get an F in any basic science including physics. What we humans measure is the natural movement and cycles in our universe we are objectively measure.

You said..."Time measures movement as a matter of fact" This is where we come to a disagreement, 'time' can't measure anything because it is not an entity as such, it is only the conceptual label placed on the measurement of some regular periodic movement of entities of the universe, ie. planets, moon, etc. Iow, 'time' is what we call the regular movement of real things of the universe. So what I have been trying to convey to you since the get go is that the periods of real existing things moving in the universe are a proxy for what we humans call time.

I know what you are saying is what people accept without question, but if you can discern the essential technically correct position I am trying to convey, then we can reach an agreement. From a practical pov, what I am saying makes no difference to the way human civilization progresses, but for the individual who is interested in deeper understanding of existence, the understanding of the basic underlying timelessness of the universe is essential.

 

[shunyadragon]

You said..."Time measures movement as a matter of fact" This is where we come to a disagreement, . . .

. . . and it will be so until you get an education concerning time and physics.

'time' can't measure anything because it is not an entity as such, it is only the conceptual label placed on the measurement of some regular periodic movement of entities of the universe, ie. planets, moon, etc. Iow, 'time' is what we call the regular movement of real things of the universe. So what I have been trying to convey to you since the get go is that the periods of real existing things moving in the universe are a proxy for what we humans call time.

You have admitted the natural movement. measurement of time is not a proxy, because it simply exists when every there is movement and humans measure the movement.

Of course time does not measure anything. This a very very stupid statement. Time does not need anyone to measure it. Time is a natural part of the time/space whenever there is natural movement. Humans simply measure the natural movement in the macro time/space universe,

I

know what you are saying is what people accept without question, but if you can discern the essential technically correct position I am trying to convey, then we can reach an agreement. From a practical pov, what I am saying makes no difference to the way human civilization progresses, but for the individual who is interested in deeper understanding of existence, the understanding of the basic underlying timelessness of the universe is essential.

No you are not apparently aware of 'what people accept without question because scientists do not accept things without question. It is very, very, very unlikely we will reach an agreement, because of your voluntary ignorance concerning the reality time in a time/space existence and your lack of knowledge of Quantum Mechanics.

Again there are no bears in this discussion.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

. . . and it will be so until you get an education concerning time and physics.



You have admitted the natural movement. measurement of time is not a proxy, because it simply exists when every there is movement and humans measure the movement.

Of course time does not measure anything. This a very very stupid statement. Time does not need anyone to measure it. Time is a natural part of the time/space whenever there is natural movement. Humans simply measure the natural movement in the macro time/space universe,

I

No you are not apparently aware of 'what people accept without question because scientists do not accept things without question. It is very, very, very unlikely we will reach an agreement, because of your voluntary ignorance concerning the reality time in a time/space existence and your lack of knowledge of Quantum Mechanics.

Again there are no bears in this discussion.

So the scientists of their day devised a sun dial whereby a vertical section cast a shadow on a plate, and was calibrated to roughly measure the time of day in hours. So my question to you is...is the sun dial measuring time or is it merely a cleverly designed passive instrument created by humans that actually helps humans to manage their daily routine?

Everything in the universe has movement relative to some thing else, scientists of an earlier time have cleverly determined which of all the movements are periodic and regular, and use them as the starting and finishing points for establishing finite periods of the eternal persistence of existence relevant to the human race, eg. the year and the month, etc.. It is the human mind that is responsible for the establishing of the concept of time. I accept that this concept of time related to the passing of finite periods of the eternal existence is an essential part of human existence, but the actual measurements are due to human devised instruments referenced to universal nature.

Please explain what it is about time in relation to QM that you feel I lack understanding, I will be happy to see the point/s you are referring to.
.

 

[rational experiences]

Ask a male about their machine O God the planet Earth and its mass.

O the only time body that moves as a planet through space without light.

For the gases are just out of the body of stone, released, and own no relativity string in any science theory.

Burning hotter gases in natural history of space release from stone were obviously radiating hotter. So Sun radiation only attacked and removed natural evolution of the history of a gas in space.

You know that you think in 2 half bodies...cold clear night time gases and burning night time sky....2 conditions at once, that warped your mind.

Seeing consciousness is not God the stone, the body of a planet formed in the natural state cold out of space...it ended there.

Gases, spirit, the heavens owns the light, it does not move by itself....but owns holding to the planet and the planet itself, stone travels.

Now if space were infinite power, then God would never change, God would never be enabled to own a sink hole of any form...the mass would be supported and could not be removed.....yet it gets removed.

So when science uses mass to gain a lower form of energy after attacking the higher form of energy and make a space to transfer the reaction, they are inventor of science space inside of the Earth atmosphere.

For the heavenly gases to be given an extra or increased space...the cold gets removed out of it sitting in space and it expands. Space is introduced.

God the body of removal of its mass also makes a space.

Why God the planetary body...and cosmological known Satanic God O black holes, fall into that space, seeing you opened it yourselves.

What you always knew as science, as scientists, as males, as humans, as Satanists, in full knowledge.

When male groups in science own full knowledge of the attack on natural life and planetary mass yet say they are allowed to do it for self successful human conditions does that make you actually or in factual use to be informed correct, or are you in fact self described as the DESTROYER!

 

[shunyadragon]

So the scientists of their day devised a sun dial whereby a vertical section cast a shadow on a plate, and was calibrated to roughly measure the time of day in hours. So my question to you is...is the sun dial measuring time or is it merely a cleverly designed passive instrument created by humans that actually helps humans to manage their daily routine?

Huh?!?!?! Not meaningful to the discussion at hand.

Everything in the universe has movement relative to something else, scientists of an earlier time have cleverly determined which of all the movements are periodic and regular, and use them as the starting and finishing points for establishing finite periods of the eternal persistence of existence relevant to the human race, eg. the year and the month, etc.. It is the human mind that is responsible for the establishing of the concept of time. I accept that this concept of time related to the passing of finite periods of the eternal existence is an essential part of human existence, but the actual measurements are due to human devised instruments referenced to universal nature.

True in bold. So you acknowledge that time is not proxy, and a real quality of our physical existence that can be measured. The only problem with your statement is time itself does not have finite periods of external existence. It is objectively observed that time exists and we devise methods and units of time to measure it just as things in existence do not have names, but assign names to things, because science is descriptive of the nature of our existence.

Tine exists in nature and we describe and measure time whenever there is movement in nature.

Please explain what it is about time in relation to QM that you feel I lack understanding, I will be happy to see the point/s you are referring to.
.

Everything that we have discussed you have made false and misleading statements concerning Quantum Mechanics.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Huh?!?!?! Not meaningful to the discussion at hand.



True in bold. So you acknowledge that time is not proxy, and a real quality of our physical existence that can be measured. It is objectively observed that time exists and we divise methods to measure it,




Everything that we have discussed you have made false and misleading statements concerning Quantum Mechanics.

Hmm, i will go slowly for you, do you know what proxy means in the context of science, it means that you are not measuring what ever it is you are measuring directly, you are measuring something else and deriving a result indirectly. For example, using ice cores to estimate what the temperature was back in the past is a proxy method. So pendulums and quartz crystal oscillations are for example proxy methods of producing standard calibrated periods that humans call 'time'. When in fact all the universe is doing is continuing to exist, on and on and on...

Wait, where have I made false statements about QM? And you did not do as I requested and explain to me what you are referring to regarding QM and the concept of time. I must insist you do this in your reply, otherwise you are wasting my time.

 

[rational experiences]

Males on the God O stone planet Earth body, are only conscious due to the spirit radiating light gases.

Not for any other reason.

Yet O the stone, the machine that they constantly infer as the mechanics, is the moving body around a Sun in space.

And made a human thought about pondered quote as a bio life mind only a bio life with the chemical nature of that bio life.

You do not own any conscious self status about the quantum of space, and lie to self in radiation metal increased status.

For if God was your machine, upon which you base all your thoughts originally in the sciences, for God is the moving body O the stone Ark mass of your male belief.

Yet stone, does not own a history of when it was not stone. For as soon as you apply a quanta to stone not existing you are lying.

You lie based on radiation metals....as the quantum mechanics that you desire God the stone to become.

For you are an inventor of destruction and a self imposed male statement about your self, the Destroyer....as said by males to males as humans. Aware and conscious.

What you want to argue against about yourselves today in science.

Your claim is that God is just a small particle of radiation mass to allow God to become the equals removal of its mass to a lower mass named by your science self as electricity.

Yet God in the quantum of the cosmological themes that you use and infer to is a planet of stone mass moving through its space cycle.

As the sort of liar that has lied so much throughout his human history that he is beyond reasoning with.

Why you become the Destroyer of life on Earth.

Your claim to remove God mass taking it back by a reactive conversion to a minus space, already told you that minus in space is not space itself...the coldest body.

Your cold fusion themes are relative to what your claim coldest is.

Yet cold is an evolution historically, and it is not reactive, what you always had lied about.

Historically you know in science that original form changed into burning was colder than burning or else burning could not and never would own evolution.

And you know that mechanical advice your own selves....returned to the higher state he says....cold.

Yet the form of cold that burning owns is a statement of evolution. Not reactive.

If you were scientifically correct O God as a planet would not and never could own any forming of a sink hole. In your modern day experiments you gave God Earth sink holes, which already proved you all wrong.

Learning in science as a proof was that science was proven wrong. For all of the God statements say that God is a self contradiction of a destructive act caused to natural spiritual and higher existence.

Does not make the statements about God to be rational advice.....it is only spiritual advice and taken as advice by only those who want to be advised.

Egotism and non intelligence never sought to be advised.

For how can a male who lives consciously in the coldest form of a hot gas in the coldest body, space and emptiness make any other sort of claim about space?

You know the minus burning metallic radiation mush you have as leftovers of natural cold mass!

Since when is the Earth gas heavenly body left over burnt natural cold mass!!!!!!!

However the Sun metallic mass radiation attack gives your psyche fake/and artificial reasoning that is non actual to the reality of living and existing in natural life without metal machines and their evil reactive cause and effects.

To bring into and to the ground mass, through a cold gas mass that was supporting our life, radiation mass for human sciences...machines. And see natural life attacked and destroyed and then claim that you are sane thinkers and not irrational.

For you see it, you study it, you realize it, you know it, yet you accept those conditions based on one purpose only. The want and human male group motivation to do science for a life style. For not for honestly or reality or factual living life history and evolution conditions.

Biological sciences therefore made relevant quoted medical realized advice against occult Satanist liars...who believe in giving life hot radiated space living conditions.

By trying to apply a gas mass cold conversion with UFO metals as a spatial expansion reactive causation in our bio atmospheric life support condition.

By increasing space, or enlarging upon the presence of space as per stone mass radiation. God statements about a planet.

Why the medical scientists told you that God is not our heavenly spirit as the mass of stone....already proven to them in previous sink hole causes.

The presence of a particle is only because the fused mass it once belonged to was already historically attacked and converted. It is that amount of radiation mass that you gave God Earth in a particle theme...why you got sink holes.

For God the mass fusion is not any particle.

Your claim of black holes and mass of particles in the state space, is not God the O Earth mass with a natural atmospheric body.

You made a comparison of natural God O as a planet in its natural state against a black hole in the state of space. Where you say the particle exists.

God O in space as a mass and fusion was never that particle.

And if you used common human sense, if you said that you believed that O a mass of fusion began as a particle you would be trying to destroy O God fusion to become that particle, seeing it is not any particle in reality.

Why science owns coercive male reasoning who tries to gain male group support by his story telling themes.

 

[shunyadragon]

Hmm, i will go slowly for you, do you know what proxy means in the context of science, it means that you are not measuring what ever it is you are measuring directly, you are measuring something else and deriving a result indirectly. For example, using ice cores to estimate what the temperature was back in the past is a proxy method. So pendulums and quartz crystal oscillations are for example proxy methods of producing standard calibrated periods that humans call 'time'. When in fact all the universe is doing is continuing to exist, on and on and on...

Wait, where have I made false statements about QM? And you did not do as I requested and explain to me what you are referring to regarding QM and the concept of time. I must insist you do this in your reply, otherwise you are wasting my time.

I know what proxy means, and going slowly does not help your case. Going slowly is only taking more 'time' to explain your bogus view. The scientists determine the speed of light they directly measuring the speed of light and not by proxy.

 

[rational experiences]

Science in a human male life.

O God the planet, a body of stone, without his life existing nor the gases that burn as light for him to claim light exists. Yet on the other side of Earth, clear gases, not burning also exist.

A mind can say, without God the O stone planet existing as stone, then no existence involving bio life would even exist.....in relation to a story God O.

He looks at God the stone body just sitting in space. At and in the same moment he looks at Satan black holes in space...and makes some form of comparison.

What is he using to compare?

His thought.

Yet the 2 bodies totally diverse are thought about by a thought in the use of that thought existing.

You think because your natural bio life/conscious identification to think exists in the state of light existing as burning gases.

And what you claimed as a scientist in the cosmos is absolute b.s....to be utterly honest as a human being looking at you, looking at everything else.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I know what proxy means, and going slowly does not help your case. Going slowly is only taking more 'time' to explain your bogus view. The scientists determine the speed of light they directly measuring the speed of light and not by proxy.

So explain how the speed of light is calculated without using a proxy time input?

And you have forgot to get back to me about QM and the concept of time, please....

 

[shunyadragon]

So explain how the speed of light is calculated without using a proxy time input?

And you have forgot to get back to me about QM and the concept of time, please....

Again, again and again , , , I do not spoon fed those that refuse to learn the basic academics of physics and Quantum Mechanics.

I corrected some of your clueless statements in the past. It is your responsibility to educate yourself.

 

[gnostic]

To @ben d

We can objectively measure both space and time - either separately or together.

We can measure distance in space or distance travelled, or the size of an object (eg length, width, height - these measurements provide distance to match 3 dimensional coordinates) - which are spatial measurements.

These measurements are given in agreed upon units, eg international standards, like nanometre (nm), micrometre (μm), millimetre (mm), metre (m), kilometre (km), etc, or it imperial units used in the US, like inch, foot, yard, mile, etc.

Time is use as a temporal measurement, and they have their own units used in science and engineering. These units are based on particular one cycle or period, eg second, minute, hour, day, week, year, century, millennium, etc.

Since astronomy have to measure distance in greater distance, it make more sense, to use units that are equivalent to the basic units of kilometres or miles, eg Astronomical Unit (AU), light year (ly), parsec (pc).

You wouldn’t use any astronomical units in Quantum Mechanics, which are smaller than micrometre. In Quantum Physics, the Planck units are natural units to measure, not only space, but also time, energy, at Planck scale. Hence, Planck units, include the following magnitude of units:

Planck length

Planck time

Planck energy
​

These measurements of both spatial distance or temporal measurements are often use together, as well as extra other measurements, eg mass can be used together with spatial distance and time, to acquire various different measurements or magnitudes, such as force, energy.

When distance or length are used together, these give us measurements that are combined to specific measurements, such as change of rate (eg speed or velocity, acceleration).

Then there are other units that include to measure space and time, which have applications such as electromagnetism as used in tv and radio and used in acoustic or sound. They used measurements that are common to both, eg period, cycle, amplitude, wavelength, frequency (eg Hz).

All these measurements and magnitude of units are all man-made, but they are used to measure the real world, and as you know have multiple or countless applications.

Just because time isn’t an “entity”, Ben, it doesn’t mean time doesn’t exist or that it is meaningless.

Using time and distance or length or mass or frequency and so on, is how humans understand the world, be able make predictions based on statistics and probabilities, and to make some things useful out of it.

You are making big deal out of nothing. All you are doing is just making bleating sophistry sound.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Again, again and again , , , I do not spoon fed those that refuse to learn the basic academics of physics and Quantum Mechanics.

I corrected some of your clueless statements in the past. It is your responsibility to educate yourself.

Sure, you are free to do what you like, thank you for the exchange.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sure, you are free to do what you like, thank you for the exchange.

The Laws of Nature prevent me from doing what I want. Get an education in basic physics.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

To @ben d

We can objectively measure both space and time - either separately or together.

We can measure distance in space or distance travelled, or the size of an object (eg length, width, height - these measurements provide distance to match 3 dimensional coordinates) - which are spatial measurements.

These measurements are given in agreed upon units, eg international standards, like nanometre (nm), micrometre (μm), millimetre (mm), metre (m), kilometre (km), etc, or it imperial units used in the US, like inch, foot, yard, mile, etc.

Time is use as a temporal measurement, and they have their own units used in science and engineering. These units are based on particular one cycle or period, eg second, minute, hour, day, week, year, century, millennium, etc.

Since astronomy have to measure distance in greater distance, it make more sense, to use units that are equivalent to the basic units of kilometres or miles, eg Astronomical Unit (AU), light year (ly), parsec (pc).

You wouldn’t use any astronomical units in Quantum Mechanics, which are smaller than micrometre. In Quantum Physics, the Planck units are natural units to measure, not only space, but also time, energy, at Planck scale. Hence, Planck units, include the following magnitude of units:

Planck length

Planck time

Planck energy
​

These measurements of both spatial distance or temporal measurements are often use together, as well as extra other measurements, eg mass can be used together with spatial distance and time, to acquire various different measurements or magnitudes, such as force, energy.

When distance or length are used together, these give us measurements that are combined to specific measurements, such as change of rate (eg speed or velocity, acceleration).

Then there are other units that include to measure space and time, which have applications such as electromagnetism as used in tv and radio and used in acoustic or sound. They used measurements that are common to both, eg period, cycle, amplitude, wavelength, frequency (eg Hz).

All these measurements and magnitude of units are all man-made, but they are used to measure the real world, and as you know have multiple or countless applications.

Just because time isn’t an “entity”, Ben, it doesn’t mean time doesn’t exist or that it is meaningless.

Using time and distance or length or mass or frequency and so on, is how humans understand the world, be able make predictions based on statistics and probabilities, and to make some things useful out of it.

You are making big deal out of nothing. All you are doing is just making bleating sophistry sound.

Hi gnostic, long time since we have have talked. I agree that the concept of time and its application is not meaningless, it is a magnificent step forward in human development. My point is that time is in reality a measurement of the the persistence of existence, not an entity such as space for example. That it is used to create the concept of space-time is also valid in understanding the 3D space changes in 'time', ie. the changes in 3D space as the universe changes due to all the underlying forces of nature unfold. My description may not be clear as it is hard to put into words but I trust you see what I mean. I am not implying that science has it wrong, just that beyond the concept of time as is generally understood, the fact is the existing universe continues to exist and the concept of time quantifies this continuing existence in a way that allows man to greater understand the complexity of universe in a 3D plus 4th time dimensional universe.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The Laws of Nature prevent me from doing what I want. Get an education in basic physics.

You may be surprised...

 

[shunyadragon]

You may be surprised...

Boo!