The Christian Missionary and the Inuit Man

[columbus]

My point is you like attacking Christian fundamentalist thinking because it's easy to criticize. But I find the majority of intelligent Christians have intelligent thoughts on these issues.

Intelligent and sophisticated Christians are the problem. They'll tell me about their deep thoughts and why they reject traditional theology. At the same time their Christian brothers and sisters are fighting marriage equality, climate science etc.

Reminds me of something that happened back in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. A pastor from 1st Presbyterian Church came to a meeting I was attending offering to help us demonstrate against the war. When we pointed out that she had access to a big pulpit every week she said "Oh, I can't say that on Sunday. People will just stop coming to church.". Ironically, her sophisticated Christianity made Jesus' Message something the flock needed to be sheltered against. Jesus is just a little too radical for modern Christians, sophisticated or not.

Tom

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I have read your posts though....and that's what I'm basing my comments on.

Whenever you have trouble comprehending my words, you are welcome to ask me what I'm meaning by them.

But your crude attacks are saying more about you than about me, so it seems.

 

[George-ananda]

Whenever you have trouble comprehending my words,

I had no trouble comprehending your words.

 

[Father Heathen]

Heh, so the missionaries end up damning far more than they save, since they would've been saved anyway via ignorance.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I had no trouble comprehending your words.

Yeah, it's like your paranormal sightings. They aren't really there, but you see them anyway.

Same with my words. You see in them what is not there.

 

[viole]

Can you give an example of what you're talking about? It certainly isn't a misrepresentation to claim that many Christians believe one must hear and reject the Word in order to risk hell. I've known many Christians who argued that those who never heard the gospel will not be judged.

Ergo, it is preferable not to hear the gospel.

I suggest to call it badspel.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Not telling someone about God is like knowing the answer to the most important question, But refusing to tell anyone else. To me, It's just cruel.

It depends.

Would there be no celestial consequences if the inuit laughs in the face of the missionary after hearing the story?

If there are, then the loving Father is similar to the Dear Leader of N.Korea.

Ciao

- viole

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Ergo, it is preferable not to hear the gospel.

That does seem a necessary conclusion for anyone who believes that ignorance exempts one from hellfire. I'd be curious to hear someone argue why the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

 

[Thana]

It depends.

Would there be no celestial consequences if the inuit laughs in the face of the missionary?

If there are, then the loving Father is similar to the Dear Leader of N.Korea.

Ciao

- viole

Skepticism is not a crime.
No, There'd be no consequence for that.

 

[nazz]

Intelligent and sophisticated Christians are the problem. They'll tell me about their deep thoughts and why they reject traditional theology. At the same time their Christian brothers and sisters are fighting marriage equality, climate science etc.

Reminds me of something that happened back in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. A pastor from 1st Presbyterian Church came to a meeting I was attending offering to help us demonstrate against the war. When we pointed out that she had access to a big pulpit every week she said "Oh, I can't say that on Sunday. People will just stop coming to church.". Ironically, her sophisticated Christianity made Jesus' Message something the flock needed to be sheltered against. Jesus is just a little too radical for modern Christians, sophisticated or not.

Tom

So true. If you read "The Myth of a Christian Nation" by Gregory Boyd he talks about how he lost half his congregation when he preached his sermons on that subject.

 

[Desert Snake]

Skepticism is not a crime.
No, There'd be no consequence for that.

Why preach at all then, whats the point.
That's what is odd, the references to say, Xians not going to hell, but hey! all of a sudden jews aren't going to hell either, but other groups are?! makes no sense.

 

[Thana]

Why preach at all then, whats the point.
That's what is odd, the references to say, Xians not going to hell, but hey! all of a sudden jews aren't going to hell either, but other groups are?! makes no sense.

To a Christian, God is everything. All things, But most especially, He's hope, Happiness, strength, love etc. And they want to share that, That's why some Christians preach. They want people to have what they have, To know what they know.

To be honest, I don't know why Christians say 'You're going to hell and you're going to hell'.

We're judged on our hearts, And only God knows our hearts. Why some Christians think they have God's authority I'll never know. The bible is pretty clear about this -

Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned

 

[Desert Snake]

To a Christian, God is everything. All things, But most especially, He's hope, Happiness, strength, love etc. And they want to share that, That's why some Christians preach. They want people to have what they have, To know what they know.

To be honest, I don't know why Christians say 'You're going to hell and you're going to hell'.

We're judged on our hearts, And only God knows our hearts. Why some Christians think they have God's authority I'll never know. The bible is pretty clear about this -

Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned

Well, look, it never comes off that way, have you read my biblical subject threads? would you convert to those peoples religion after they get done saying that only special groups can dictate morality and are chosen arbitrarily for special treatment seriously...
And this as after the same Xians are told directly they're wrong, jesus isn't the messiah, they still sa those people saying that are somehow above the condemnation others face you've got to be joking....If I had no idea about any other sort of Xianity there is no way I would convert to that religion.
No, there are major issues with Xianity in general, time to admit it otherwise there is none, zero credibility left.

 

[Thana]

Well, look, it never comes off that way, have you read my biblical subject threads? would you convert to those peoples religion after they get done saying that only special groups can dictate morality and are chosen arbitrarily for special treatment seriously...
And this as after the same Xians are told directly they're wrong, jesus isn't the messiah, they still sa those people saying that are somehow above the condemnation others face you've got to be joking....If I had no idea about any other sort of Xianity there is no way I would convert to that religion.
No, there are major issues with Xianity in general, time to admit it otherwise there is none, zero credibility left.

First off, Why do you keep saying Xianity? It comes off very.. Hipster-y.

Secondly, I'm a little confused about your point so forgive me if I don't give a satisfactory response.

Christians aren't Christianity. They aren't God. They're just people.
Expecting perfection or even a slight betterment from them is ridiculous and I agree that they don't have dibs on morality.

I think Gandhi sums it up well -
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

 

[Desert Snake]

First off, Why do you keep saying Xianity? It comes off very.. Hipster-y.

No, 'X' means Christos in this context, like Xmas(Christmas).

Secondly, I'm a little confused about your point so forgive me if I don't give a satisfactory response.

Christians aren't Christianity. They aren't God. They're just people.
Expecting perfection or even a slight betterment from them is ridiculous and I agree that they don't have dibs on morality.

Not really my point. And not expecting perfection...that's downplaying what I just wrote about.
Those are pathetic excuses sorry. hey, anyways you can just keep thinking everything is fine with Xianity but anyone who is analytical is going to see the problems instantly.
Also, you never addressed the simplest question, about hell, so all of this is moot conversation because that's used conveniently in arguments.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The topic of people burning in hell is the single most important false teaching that there is. Teaching that an infinite omniscient loving all-powerful being torments mortals for eternity is enough to cause almost any honest and compassionate person to open up to reconsider their source of information. A compassionate and honest person must always have some way to explain around this teaching or to ignore it -- some little filter to keep thoughts about it from leaking through. Otherwise it opens a door to reconsideration of all doctrine. Rejection of this one teaching is responsible for the existence of most modern Liberal Christians, most Universalists and most of the cults, too. (I think.)

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

The topic of people burning in hell is the single most important false teaching that there is. Teaching that an infinite omniscient loving all-powerful being torments mortals for eternity is enough to cause almost any honest and compassionate person to open up to reconsider their source of information.

I agree, but People of the Book might accuse you of judging God.

 

[Thana]

The topic of people burning in hell is the single most important false teaching that there is. Teaching that an infinite omniscient loving all-powerful being torments mortals for eternity is enough to cause almost any honest and compassionate person to open up to reconsider their source of information.

I guess I'm not honest and compassionate then? Or am I one of the 'almost any' that you added so as to remain only barely generalizing but not completely so.

*sigh*

I believe in an ultimate Justice. I don't think that makes me the opposite of honest and compassionate. Nor do I think that applies to God.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I guess I'm not honest and compassionate then? Or am I one of the 'almost any' that you added so as to remain only barely generalizing but not completely so.

*sigh*

I believe in an ultimate Justice. I don't think that makes me the opposite of honest and compassionate. Nor do I think that applies to God.

Don't fish for insults. Ask any Liberal Christian or any Universalist or anyone who converted away from mainstream Christianity what the factors were that made them consider doing so. One of the factors if not The factor will be that they were taught that God burned people eternally in hellfire, a merciful and compassionate God burning people in a fiery painful fire. Its basic modern USA Christianity as taught by Jonathan Edwards and many, many many preachers all over this country. From here it spread all over the world, although it didn't begin here.

 

[Thana]

Don't fish for insults. Ask any Liberal Christian or any Universalist or anyone who converted away from mainstream Christianity what the factors were that made them consider doing so. One of the factors if not The factor will be that they were taught that God burned people eternally in hellfire, a merciful and compassionate God burning people in a fiery painful fire. Its basic modern USA Christianity as taught by Jonathan Edwards and many, many many preachers all over this country. From here it spread all over the world, although it didn't begin here.

Fishing? You're the one who said it. I just didn't feel like letting it pass.

I don't really understand this picking and choosing of parts of the bible you like or don't. I understand different interpretations, Even cultural differences, But simply denying scripture? That I don't understand. And the bible isn't exactly vague about hell.