The Cause for Poverty

[BSM1]

If you think that corporation can set their prices based on costs plus taxes, you should revisit your economics 101.

If you think they don't, maybe you should. BTW, you didn't answer the question.

 

[BSM1]

Sure, if I can. And if I work for a living, I'm focused on my take-home pay which is another way of saying that I want a larger salary if I'm taxed more if I can get it.

There are two questions. The first is fairness. Does the tax system treat all parties the same. The second is what the tax system should be. I was focusing on the first point and you on the second.

In a rational universe, we could have a rational discussion of these two points compared to the current state of affairs. And that discussion would not just be cost-based but also benefit-based. What government should be doing and how should it be paid for are serious questions deserving serious discussion which of course does not exist.

"If you can..."? If you don't you'll go broke...or eat a bunch of ramen noodles.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not nothing from nothing, but she seems fairly well dressed with what appears to be some expensive kicks to be wallowing in poverty. How about giving us a picture of poverty in some third world dictatorship just for comparison.

Years ago, I was sitting at the bus stop when I went to school. The lady beside me was talking-me going to school, her to work. She was dressed real nice so I assume she had a good job. So, she asked me what I did and I asked her. I think she's a manager if I remember. You live around here, she asked me. I live close. What about you? "I live in the tent park in the woods" she tells me. We kept talking, she got on the bus (which was heavily expensive), and went to work.

 

[BSM1]

Years ago, I was sitting at the bus stop when I went to school. The lady beside me was talking-me going to school, her to work. She was dressed real nice so I assume she had a good job. So, she asked me what I did and I asked her. I think she's a manager if I remember. You live around here, she asked me. I live close. What about you? "I live in the tent park in the woods" she tells me. We kept talking, she got on the bus (which was heavily expensive), and went to work.

No offense, but are we edging to a point here?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No offense, but are we edging to a point here?

Was responding to this "Not nothing from nothing, but she seems fairly well dressed with what appears to be some expensive kicks to be wallowing in poverty"

People fairly well dressed doesn't mean anything. Some people don't give to the poor cause of how they look. Sad, really.

 

[BSM1]

Was responding to this "Not nothing from nothing, but she seems fairly well dressed with what appears to be some expensive kicks to be wallowing in poverty"

People fairly well dressed doesn't mean anything. Some people don't give to the poor cause of how they look. Sad, really.

Seriously? Do you expect people to give their hard earned dollars to folks that may be dressed better than themselves?

 

[Thief]

Carnegie....the steel guy of the previous century
held position that brought the money to him
by ownership of the steel mill

everyone under him suffered

but in public he was considered generous
and spent the last of his days giving money away

it was coming to him faster than he could give it away

but his generosity seemed to gel late in life

 

[Thief]

big oil got to be too big

the gov had to step in and break it up into ten smaller companies

 

[Thief]

what I'm saying is......

money can be used to gain more money
all in the name of ownership

that brought the Great Depression of the previous century

the solution was that tax I mentioned earlier

but that might not work twice
especially when the gold standard disappeared decades ago

and even the coins we now use are becoming scarce

 

[BSM1]

big oil got to be too big

the gov had to step in and break it up into ten smaller companies

Not only this, but in the 20's the Rockefellar owned more money than the Fed Gov't. The Gov't made a deal with the Rocks and that's why you see so many buildings and foundation in their names. The entire Rockefellar family is still set til at least the Second Coming.

BTW, can you imagine the look on John D's partner's face a couple of years after he sold his half of Standard Oil to John because he didn't believe in the future of oil...

 

[Thief]

and that story......of dumping an oil byproduct
into the river

and the guy in charge wanted to know.....what's up?
and the workers said.....it's the stuff that is not oil
it's volatile and dangerous
all we can do is dump it

turned out to be gasoline

 

[Thief]

back to topic....
distribution of money is the key

but if you give to people on the low end of life's struggle
they stop struggling and buy cigarettes
watch tv
and not much else

so part of the problem is human nature
many people are content......the next paycheck is enough
and as long as the modern conveniences keep coming
there is no problem

so what?....if the pants have holes in them
that's top dollar fashion in some circles

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Seriously? Do you expect people to give their hard earned dollars to folks that may be dressed better than themselves?

You've never lived among the poverty before?

I don't know about there, but it's far beyond stereotypes of "you wear nice clothes, you must be rich."

 

[Thief]

I grew up in the housing projects of a mid-sized city

been poor
didn't like it

I left

and I kept making choices that led to better choices

however....choices can be elusive
and sometimes not even there

hence the rut of poverty that many cannot escape

 

[BSM1]

You've never lived among the poverty before?

I don't know about there, but it's far beyond stereotypes of "you wear nice clothes, you must be rich."

Friend, I did some growing up in Southern Appalachia long before there was such a thing as 'welfare' and 'food stamps'. I have had dandelion greens as the only meal in days (they're terrible, BTW) when the government commodities ran out or were simply nonexistent. I've walked to school with holes in my shoes during the winter, and scratched the ground in the spring to plant what meager vegetables we could get our hands on. Please don't play the 'poor' card with, you probably won't win. Today poverty is relative; and mostly a state of mind. Looking back, I never considered myself 'poor', only 'broke'.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Friend, I did some growing up in Southern Appalachia long before there was such a thing as 'welfare' and 'food stamps'. I have had dandelion greens as the only meal in days (they're terrible, BTW) when the government commodities ran out or were simply nonexistent. I've walked to school with holes in my shoes during the winter, and scratched the ground in the spring to plant what meager vegetables we could get our hands on. Please don't play the 'poor' card with, you probably won't win. Today poverty is relative; and mostly a state of mind. Looking back, I never considered myself 'poor', only 'broke'.

I read. Why wouldn't you give money to people who dress better than themselves?

How can one determine if one is in poverty solely based on their clothes?

Some people have clothes and a job but can't just pick up and get a hole. Here. There's a lot of loop holes involved. The system keeps people poor.

A lot of people don't get help because of pride. I don't get help cause I'm stuck in the loop hole. But even on RF people think I'm abusing the system.

You considered yourself broke. Maybe you had resources and was able to not be broke. It's not like that for all people.

How can we generalize based on what one wears?

 

[Tambourine]

IOW, we don't actually want everyone to pay their fair share.

You seem very hung up on everyone paying the exact same price for something regardless of their personal financial situation, and seem to consider that the pinnacle of "fairness". Why is that?

That would be bad idea. Capitalism has increased the standard of living for everyone. Capitalism has created a need for a workforce. A need to employee people. What we need is more capitalism. Capitalism creates jobs. Creates opportunity for people to earn a living.

Folks want to immigrate to capitalist countries. Why? because of job opportunities, because of the standard of living in capitalist countries.

Since the start of capitalism the average income has risen.

GDP per capita is a terrible indicator of actual quality of life. It doesn't even measure the creation of wealth.

Also, why do you believe that public benefits, welfare and a functioning public healthcare system, the rule of law and basic human rights, all exist due to "capitalism"?

 

[syo]

Did you not support capitalism when you purchased whatever device you're using to post with?

Did I have an alternative?

 

[syo]

Capitalism has increased the standard of living for everyone

The homeless can't quote you back. And I think they are many.

 

[BSM1]

Did I have an alternative?

Thank the stars, no...