The Buddha Explains Universal Mind

[YmirGF]

Well it seems we are honoured to have two self claimed enlightened beings on this thread, so it would be nice to see if each acknowledges the other as enlightened.

May I introduce you Prophet to YmirGF :clap

I find his thinking about as impressive as yours, friend Ben. Speaking for myself, I can no longer say that I actually believe in Enlightenment, per se. To me, it's part of Buddha's little joke.

 

[Prophet]

Friend Straw Dog,


You are so near...
There is no SELF which is separate one is always a part of the whole only problem is one does not know and when he knows understands he says: "Oh! this; **** how have missed it so far.." So for that individual mind which has transcended itself to universal mind, is what It is all about. Nothing changes! except that CONSCIOUSNESS.

Regards universal enlightenment; you should understand that through the evolutionary process one is always on the PATH or WAY to enlightenment and some revolutionize the process to reach that state in their present lifetime itself. And each enlightenment raises human consciousness as one of its part unites/merges with the sources and evolution continues.

Love & rgds

I am in accordance with you.

To see universal enlightenment rule our world during my lifetime is my dream.

The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
The infant will play near the hole of the cobra,
and the young child put his hand into the viper’s nest.
They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9

 

[zenzero]

Friend Prophet,

To see universal enlightenment rule our world during my lifetime is my dream.

Sorry, that is not what the case besides prophets do not dream their minds are no-minds.
The process of enlightenment is any is going hand in hand with evolution/revolution itself.

It is always HERE-NOW!

Love & rgds

 

[Tathagata]

There's no way Buddha or Buddhism knows about "Ultimate Reality"

Nice try and kudos for trying to challenge Buddhism, but what you say is false. I will address your argument below.

because Buddhist philosophy rests on a completely false view of reality stemming from extreme brain manipulation to eliminate the normal functioning of the brain's sense of self center. All Buddhist ideology stems from brain manipulation to avoid psychic pain by closing down the brain's sense of self center and shunting electrical activity to the frontal lobes, especially the right frontal lobes where pleasure centers can be excited that are associated with the oceanic egoless consciousness that accompanies the shut down of the brain's sense of self center. This is why it is so many Buddha statues show him in reclining or sitting positions because it is a lot more difficult to walk when your brain's sense of self center is not operating correctly. And this is the fatal flaw of Buddhism which renders the whole philosophy based on illusion caused by brain manipulation, i.e. the whole "Void" idea merely projects the actual void created in the Buddhist brain where the sense of self center should be operating but is effectively tranquilized. What then is the real difference between Buddhist brain manipulation to avoid psychic pain, "suffering", and avoiding psychic pain by using drugs to manipulate brain functioning?

In short, there is no "Enlightenment" in Buddhism as it is based on a single brain state projected out to the whole world. It takes a whole brain to deal effectively with reality which to me explains why countries where Buddhist philosophy dominates society they remain backward in social evolution, e.g. Bhutan, Tibet, still caught in feudal society.
Smoke a joint if you want to avoid psychic pain is my advice. That way you may not be bamboozled by Buddhist philosophy that looks good on paper but actually harms holistic consciousness necessary to deal with complex reality.

Your characterization of Buddhist psychology and ontology is off. I will show you quotes directly from the Buddha explaining how he attained knowledge of Ultimate Reality and the state of consciousness used to attain it.

the Buddha: "This Truth-essence which is discoverable in the enlightenment of all who are enlightened, is realizable as the regulative and sustaining principle of Reality, which forever abides. The Transcendental Intelligence attained intuitively by the Tathagatas by their self-realization of Noble Wisdom, is a realization of their own self-nature, -- in this sense the Tathagatas are permanent. The eternal-unthinkable of the Tathagatas is the "suchness" of noble Wisdom realized within themselves. It is both eternal and beyond thought. It conforms to the idea of a cause and yet is beyond existence and non-existence. Because it is the exalted state of Noble-Wisdom, it has its own character. Because it is the cause of highest Reality, it is its own causation. Its eternality is not derived from reasonings based on external notions of being and non-being, nor of eternality nor non-eternality. Being classed under the same head as space, cessation, Nirvana, it is eternal. Because it has nothing to do with existence and nonexistence, it is no Creator; because it has nothing to do with creation, nor with being and non-being, but is only revealed in the exalted state of noble Wisdom, it is truly eternal."
[Lankavatara Sutra]


the Buddha: "Transcendental Intelligence rises when the intellectual-mind reaches its limit and, if things are to be realized in their true and essence nature, its processes of mentation, which are based on particularized ideas, discriminations and judgements, must be transcended by an appeal to some higher faculty of cognition."
[Lankavatara Sutra]


.

 

[Prophet]

Friend Prophet,


Sorry, that is not what the case besides prophets do not dream their minds are no-minds.
The process of enlightenment is any is going hand in hand with evolution/revolution itself.

It is always HERE-NOW!

Love & rgds

Well, sir, I don't know what to say except that I do dream, and its a dream I see as the next evolution of life on our planet, when all beings have put selfishness and ego behind them and, as a result, never experience the severing of Awareness.

Someone who wrote at least a few verses of the Bible in Isaiah saw the same dream. Jesus called the same dream the Kingdom of God, prophesying of a day when kingdoms of men no longer take up arms against each other. John Lennon wrote about this dream in his song "Imagine". Enlightened beings share the dream of God.

I remember seeing in a Beatles documentary that Lennon got all his bandmates together after he'd gone on an acid bender to announce that he was Jesus Christ. While I think his announcement was very funny, I understand what he had seen to make him think that. Acid lights up the subconscious. Being able to think in perfect Awareness for the first time since first experience of evil will have a profound affect on anyone even somewhat artificially induced.

While his bandmates were unconvinced, the lyrics to that song are evidence enough to me that Lennon caught, at very least, a glimpse of enlightenment.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I find his thinking about as impressive as yours, friend Ben. Speaking for myself, I can no longer say that I actually believe in Enlightenment, per se. To me, it's part of Buddha's little joke.

Well that's good my friend Paul, for now that the belief in Enlightenment has been dropped, realization of Enlightenment becomes possible...

Belief in Enlightenment or belief that Enlightenment doesn't exist is just another example of the infinite number of complementary opposite mental constructs generated by the mortal mind associated with its self referenced perception of reality...whereas the Universal Mind is One and undifferentiated, and hence can not be comprehended with such a dualistic approach. When the human mind ceases its self referenced perspective of reality, it becomes possible for a harmonious union whereby there is union with the Universal Mind, However, this effortless union will not endure for long at first and it's sort of a long evolution of unfoldment until realization/union becomes permanent.
:namaste

 

[waterbear]

Nice try and kudos for trying to challenge Buddhism, but what you say is false. I will address your argument below.



Your characterization of Buddhist psychology and ontology is off. I will show you quotes directly from the Buddha explaining how he attained knowledge of Ultimate Reality and the state of consciousness used to attain it.

the Buddha: "This Truth-essence which is discoverable in the enlightenment of all who are enlightened, is realizable as the regulative and sustaining principle of Reality, which forever abides. The Transcendental Intelligence attained intuitively by the Tathagatas by their self-realization of Noble Wisdom, is a realization of their own self-nature, -- in this sense the Tathagatas are permanent. The eternal-unthinkable of the Tathagatas is the "suchness" of noble Wisdom realized within themselves. It is both eternal and beyond thought. It conforms to the idea of a cause and yet is beyond existence and non-existence. Because it is the exalted state of Noble-Wisdom, it has its own character. Because it is the cause of highest Reality, it is its own causation. Its eternality is not derived from reasonings based on external notions of being and non-being, nor of eternality nor non-eternality. Being classed under the same head as space, cessation, Nirvana, it is eternal. Because it has nothing to do with existence and nonexistence, it is no Creator; because it has nothing to do with creation, nor with being and non-being, but is only revealed in the exalted state of noble Wisdom, it is truly eternal."
[Lankavatara Sutra]


the Buddha: "Transcendental Intelligence rises when the intellectual-mind reaches its limit and, if things are to be realized in their true and essence nature, its processes of mentation, which are based on particularized ideas, discriminations and judgements, must be transcended by an appeal to some higher faculty of cognition."
[Lankavatara Sutra]


.

So you're trying to foist that pile of meaningless twaddle off as "Enlightenment"? It's just a bunch of words and says nothing concrete which is in keeping with a brain which is deliberately lacking full brain consciousness, a big hole in the head where the sense of self center should be operating. This hole in the head is what gives the ILLUSION of egolessness and the ILLUSION of a world without purpose or meaning other than than natural cycles. Sorry, but it takes an ego to buck the natural way which is why human beings have excelled in creativity bringing them out of primitive animal existence. I know you who adore Buddhism will find this fatal flaw news about Buddha and Buddhism being based essentially on brain manipulation having little to do with outside reality quite troubling and want to ignore or defame the messenger, but stlll, brain science studying Buddhist monk brains during meditation cannot be disproven, the direct correlation between monks reporting their progress towards "enlightenment" and their ability to stop electrical activity in their brain's sense of self centers. Drugs also manipulate the brain and can also be used to avoid psychic pain of existence. But to create a whole philosophy on a single brain state is not the wisest idea in the world. Buddha didn't find God for starters and that's because he turned off his brain's ability to recognize God or spiritual reality overriding everything in Creation.

These are the End Times for Buddhism as well as for all other false religions and philosophies that have kept humanity from progressing towards full human consciousness potential, without which civilization and human beings cannot advance towards becoming truly humane beings whose love for one another always involves risk of suffering. The psychologically dramatic Christian icon of complete surrender of Self to God and Humanity will always be the strongest mentality for overcoming egotistical life. Buddha was only part way there because he got mesmerized by getting high via meditative techniques and mental gymnastics instead of drugs.

 

[idav]

So you're trying to foist that pile of meaningless twaddle off as "Enlightenment"? It's just a bunch of words and says nothing concrete which is in keeping with a brain which is deliberately lacking full brain consciousness, a big hole in the head where the sense of self center should be operating. This hole in the head is what gives the ILLUSION of egolessness and the ILLUSION of a world without purpose or meaning other than than natural cycles. Sorry, but it takes an ego to buck the natural way which is why human beings have excelled in creativity bringing them out of primitive animal existence. I know you who adore Buddhism will find this fatal flaw news about Buddha and Buddhism being based essentially on brain manipulation having little to do with outside reality quite troubling and want to ignore or defame the messenger, but stlll, brain science studying Buddhist monk brains during meditation cannot be disproven, the direct correlation between monks reporting their progress towards "enlightenment" and their ability to stop electrical activity in their brain's sense of self centers. Drugs also manipulate the brain and can also be used to avoid psychic pain of existence. But to create a whole philosophy on a single brain state is not the wisest idea in the world. Buddha didn't find God for starters and that's because he turned off his brain's ability to recognize God or spiritual reality overriding everything in Creation.

These are the End Times for Buddhism as well as for all other false religions and philosophies that have kept humanity from progressing towards full human consciousness potential, without which civilization and human beings cannot advance towards becoming truly humane beings whose love for one another always involves risk of suffering. The psychologically dramatic Christian icon of complete surrender of Self to God and Humanity will always be the strongest mentality for overcoming egotistical life. Buddha was only part way there because he got mesmerized by getting high via meditative techniques and mental gymnastics instead of drugs.

The studies on the monks brains show the brains actually getting larger and working much more efficiently. You can stop electrical activity, reroute it and many times the mind becomes very active in electrical activity. Your baseless claims don't stand up to reality.

 

[YmirGF]

Well that's good my friend Paul, for now that the belief in Enlightenment has been dropped, realization of Enlightenment becomes possible...

*breaks off listening to the sound of one hand clapping*
I'm sorry, Master Ben. What were you saying?

Belief in Enlightenment or belief that Enlightenment doesn't exist is just another example of the infinite number of complementary opposite mental constructs generated by the mortal mind associated with its self referenced perception of reality...whereas the Universal Mind is One and undifferentiated, and hence can not be comprehended with such a dualistic approach.

And you know this how, exactly, Master Ben?

When the human mind ceases its self referenced perspective of reality, it becomes possible for a harmonious union whereby there is union with the Universal Mind, However, this effortless union will not endure for long at first and it's sort of a long evolution of unfoldment until realization/union becomes permanent.

You make it sound so perfectly Borg-like, Master Ben. "Resistance is futile. Your life, as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service, us."


:bow: :bow: :bow: :help: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Buddha was only part way there because he got mesmerized by getting high via meditative techniques and mental gymnastics instead of drugs.

When One spends time on RF, one sees many silly statements, but alas, yours takes the cake this week. Well done.

 

[Tathagata]

So you're trying to foist that pile of meaningless twaddle off as "Enlightenment"?

Simply saying something is meaningless words saying nothing is a copout and intellectually dishonest attempt at winning an argument.

If you want to show that something is wrong, you have to analyze it, understand it, then refute the specifics. Youve done none of that. You fail completely. Learn proper argumentation and discourse please.

It's just a bunch of words and says nothing concrete

Again, false. Do you not understand words written in plain English? A dictionary has no problem deciphering these verses, perhaps you need a dictionary to give you a reminder as to what all these words mean.

which is in keeping with a brain which is deliberately lacking full brain consciousness, a big hole in the head where the sense of self center

You dont understand the nature of self, thats what the Buddha is here for correcting the proper understanding of self. Please, go research David Hume's bundle theory. Hume proves the Buddhas theory of self is true.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Hume&mobileaction=view_normal_site#The_self
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundle_theory

should be operating. This hole in the head is what gives the ILLUSION of egolessness and the ILLUSION of a world without purpose or meaning other than than natural cycles. Sorry, but it takes an ego to buck the natural way which is why human beings have excelled in creativity bringing them out of primitive animal existence. I know you who adore Buddhism will find this fatal flaw news about Buddha and Buddhism being based essentially on brain manipulation having little to do with outside reality quite troubling and want to ignore or defame the messenger,

Where did I ignore or defame you? I am directly attacking your arguments. Though, due to your evasive dishonest dismissal of Buddhist scripture with no attempy to understand.

but stlll, brain science studying Buddhist monk brains during meditation cannot be disproven, the direct correlation between monks reporting their progress towards "enlightenment" and their ability to stop electrical activity in their brain's sense of self centers.

Psychological experts and neuroscientists have both confirmed that meditation increases intelligence and function of cognitive abilities. Neuroscientist Sam Harris has extensively gone into Buddhist meditation and his neuroscientific perspective is conclusive. Meditation is beneficial intellectually.

Drugs also manipulate the brain and can also be used to avoid psychic pain of existence. But to create a whole philosophy on a single brain state is not the wisest idea in the world. Buddha didn't find God for starters and that's because he turned off his brain's ability to recognize God or spiritual reality overriding everything in Creation.

These are the End Times for Buddhism as well as for all other false religions and philosophies that have kept humanity from progressing towards full human consciousness potential, without which civilization and human beings cannot advance towards becoming truly humane beings whose love for one another always involves risk of suffering. The psychologically dramatic Christian icon of complete surrender of Self to God and Humanity will always be the strongest mentality for overcoming egotistical life. Buddha was only part way there because he got mesmerized by getting high via meditative techniques and mental gymnastics instead of drugs.

Read what he said: "This Truth-essence which is discoverable in the enlightenment of all who are enlightened, is realizable as the regulative and sustaining principle of Reality, which forever abides. The Transcendental Intelligence attained intuitively by the Tathagatas by their self-realization of Noble Wisdom, is a realization of their own self-nature." -- the Buddha

None of what you say is true. The Buddha didnt say anything about a hole in your brain or shutting of braim activity, he mentions transcendental intelligence, breaching the limits of intellectual mind and appealing to a higher faculty of cognition. What dont you understand.


.

 

[Prophet]

Belief in Enlightenment or belief that Enlightenment doesn't exist is fairly irrelevant in discovering this Enlightenment. However, a common connotation with the nature of belief is attachment. Adding this connotation makes belief a very significant barrier to Enlightenment.

If one bases belief on reason alone, Enlightenment follows. However a tiny bit of attachment to any belief will be a massive obstacle. Attachment to belief absolutely requires suspension of reason. Whether this belief is right or wrong is irrelevant. Attachment even to a correct belief will cause a being to carelessly skim and disregard the arguments of opponents, and, even more heinously, will cause a being to fail to closely examine and fully understand this belief of which they are so sure.

This is why when some people say "I believe in God" they are correct while when others say the same thing, they are wrong. It is the intended meaning that counts.

 

[waterbear]

The studies on the monks brains show the brains actually getting larger and working much more efficiently. You can stop electrical activity, reroute it and many times the mind becomes very active in electrical activity. Your baseless claims don't stand up to reality.

Well, speak for yourself because my logic tells me it can never be wise to idolize a single brain state as the "highest" one when it takes a whole brain to deal effectively with reality. Yes, shunting electrical activity to the frontal lobes will increase cognition which is good but when the increased cognition is coupled to the hole-in-the-head egoless state caused by the disfunctioning of the brain's sense of self center, the increased cognition only wraps itself around false ideas, e.g. the idea that "attachment" is a bad thing while attachment is actually the binding force behind our evolutionary progression to more advanced states of compassion and caring for other human beings. The Buddhist goal of decreasing attachment to things is a direct product of the physical electrical detaching of the brain's sense of self center in meditating Buddhists brains so again, the wise person will question whether or not a whole philosophy of life should be given honor when it stems from a brain that is basically disabled in one major cognition control area to enhance another. Robbing Peter to pay Paul and I think in the end it makes Buddhism more reactionary than progressive. And I cite those countries where Buddhist ideology dominates society causing them to remain backwards. Creativity will naturally suffer from an egoless brain state as it takes an ego to buck the natural way of things. Buddhist art idolizes pastoral scenes from Nature while Western art blooms with novelty and surprises--coming of course from minds not at all blissful and detached but often tortured with ego problems, the natural by-product of human social evolutionary progression but one only the foolish would ever want to do away with in order to seek "Enlightenment".

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

both arguments and meditation remains eternal.
One simply follows that come naturally.
One thing is certain that where the mind ends no-mind/universal mind starts.

Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And you know this how, exactly, Master Ben?

It's from the Gods YmirGF, you obviously aren't having electrical thunderstorms in your frontal lobes like me, particularly the right side, otherwise you would know also...

Btw, that's an interesting comment from the Waterbear, re the frontal lobes as the ancient Egyptians believed that when the third eye (the eye of Horus) opened, symbolized by a serpent emerging from the right side frontal lobe, the Gods could see into this lower material world. Now the ancient Indians also believed that when the third eye opened, it was due to the Kundalini serpent, which arose from the lowest Chakra (Coccyx/Sacral) and eventually radiated from the top of the head via the thousand petaled lotus (7th Cakra) to bring about Enlightenment.

And also, preceding Enlightenment is the union of Shiva and Shakti (sixth chakra) which is a very trying prerequisite state involving extraordinary sexual pleasure associated with the union of the internal male and female (Pingala and Ida Nadis) pranic flows, and which must be transcended before the Kundalini energy radiates from the top of the head in an aura of light (Called Halo in the West).

And don't mess with the Waterbear as they are the toughest animals on the planet - and now scientists have discovered that they can even survive in space.

 

[Prophet]

Many professed followers of Jesus believe they have understood and applied Jesus' teachings to their lives. Yet, it is a simple exercise to demonstrate how little of it they have understood or applied.

It seems to me that many professed followers of Siddhartha Gautama have made similar mistakes.

 

[apophenia]

And don't mess with the Waterbear as they are the toughest animals on the planet - and now scientists have discovered that they can even survive in space.

Fantastic ! Thanks for that. Much more interesting than 'scientific credibility' vs 'my hippy mom and dad' or whatever. LOL

 

[waterbear]

After receiving yet another warning that happens whenever I post factual information that debunks cherished mythologies and in this case cherished philosophy I have to be on guard if I dare post anything relating to my personal beliefs which seem to evoke the spirit of the Inquisition that was actually begun for the persecution of Gnostic Christians in Languedoc, France.

Anyway, a picture of one of my fellow tardigrades was posted so why can't I post images of my avatar too? Here I am fully suited:

Here's my super suit folded away before I change into it and start posting the world's toughest Christian belief system on RF.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Personal understanding:

UNIVERSAL MIND or NO-MIND is that state when the mind is transcended.
Mind by itself denotes SPACE and has no limits to IT but thoughts occupy that space and the oneness/unity/void/space is no more maintained or free but temporarily occupied.

The other point is that when someone's says: I believe in so and so. Firstly that *I* stands for the MIND which as explained above is temporary and *belief* is just a *thought* a vibration of the mind and stilling all thoughts is pre-requisite to be in oneness and so all beliefs too have to fall prior to that oneness with the universal mind.

Love & rgds

 

[Straw Dog]

Friends,

Personal understanding:

UNIVERSAL MIND or NO-MIND is that state when the mind is transcended.
Mind by itself denotes SPACE and has no limits to IT but thoughts occupy that space and the oneness/unity/void/space is no more maintained or free but temporarily occupied.

The other point is that when someone's says: I believe in so and so. Firstly that *I* stands for the MIND which as explained above is temporary and *belief* is just a *thought* a vibration of the mind and stilling all thoughts is pre-requisite to be in oneness and so all beliefs too have to fall prior to that oneness with the universal mind.

Love & rgds

I don't know, zenzero.

I definitely sense an identification with the elements of Zen Buddhism that cross-over with philosophical Taoism, but whenever I venture more into Buddhist teachings I find myself becoming more uncomfortable. I agree that it's most useful to lose one's sense of self to a certain degree, but cannot quite concede that one's sense of self is not a part of the totality of being in and of itself. It's not that the sense of self doesn't exist, but that it needs to find its proper place in the flow of things.

I find the seeking of enlightenment to be exhausting. It causes too much uptight thinking and idealism when I contemplate the Buddhist teachings, and I start to lose my natural self. I retreat back to philosophical Taoism, or rather the lifestyle indicated by it, because it's what feels most natural. I don't know if the teaching of universal mind is wrong, or if I'm just not ready for it. Either way, it doesn't feel quite natural to me. I just wanted to share my own experiences.

Take it easy,

Straw Dog

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Belief in Enlightenment or belief that Enlightenment doesn't exist is fairly irrelevant in discovering this Enlightenment. However, a common connotation with the nature of belief is attachment. Adding this connotation makes belief a very significant barrier to Enlightenment.

If one bases belief on reason alone, Enlightenment follows. However a tiny bit of attachment to any belief will be a massive obstacle. Attachment to belief absolutely requires suspension of reason. Whether this belief is right or wrong is irrelevant. Attachment even to a correct belief will cause a being to carelessly skim and disregard the arguments of opponents, and, even more heinously, will cause a being to fail to closely examine and fully understand this belief of which they are so sure.

This is why when some people say "I believe in God" they are correct while when others say the same thing, they are wrong. It is the intended meaning that counts.

You are part way there but it needs to be taken one step further. Reason definitely has its place, but it is not present in enlightenment, so it too must be transcended AT the appropriate time,... all of the brain mind's conceptual thinking processes must cease.

Now reason shouldn't be done away with until the prerequisite understanding has been realized, and then and only then will the mind effortlessly surrender to that peace that passeth understanding. Here is how the Buddha explains it...

While the Tathagata, in his teaching, constantly makes use of reasoning, conceptualizations, and ideas about them, disciples should keep in mind the unreality of all such conceptions and ideas. (Meaning the REAL is on the other side of them..ben d)

They should recall that the Tathagata, in making use of them in explaining the Dharma always uses them in the semblance of a raft that is of use only to cross a river. As the raft is of no further use after the river is crossed, it should be discarded. So these arbitrary conceptions of things and about things should be wholly given up as one attains enlightenment. -Buddha ...

But the path to pathless permanent Enlightenment is an arduous journey and only the disciple will understand how and when it is appropriate to utilize conceptualizations and reasoning, etc., and when not, by learning through trial and error. However, in time the mind will quite easily slip into the state of stillness (Dhyana), and even then further to one day of permanent Enlightenment....and moves beyond humanty,.. a Tathagata,... Nirvana.

:namaste