Prestor John
Well-Known Member
What do you believe it is?
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The Book of Mormon vs. The King James Version of the Bible
- Thread starter Watchmen
- Start date
The evidence is plain as day but you refuse to see it because of your own faith based blinders. Just reread his post. The evidence is there.
Satans_Serrated_Edge
Deicidal
There is no such thing as a 'spiritual experience'. That just...doesn't mean anything.
The closest translation would be 'emotional experience'. Once someone is emotionally convinced of something, reason goes out the window. Once reason goes out the window there is nothing left to discuss, but discuss it you do!
Round and round, round and round.
The closest translation would be 'emotional experience'. Once someone is emotionally convinced of something, reason goes out the window. Once reason goes out the window there is nothing left to discuss, but discuss it you do!
Round and round, round and round.
No one, Prestor John included, has been able to explain this. I think we all know why.
Prestor John
Well-Known Member
I have had spiritual experiences. Your spiritual ineptitude does not disprove those experiences.
You're a spiritual virgin. Just because you haven't had a spiritual experience doesn't mean they don't exist.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Just as there is some commonality in the Gospels suggesting a common very early source. It is reasonable to suppose that this would also apply in some measure to the book of Mormon.
The book of Mormon is itself a translation, why would it not be translated using the common religious style of the day.
The book of Mormon is itself a translation, why would it not be translated using the common religious style of the day.
I don't think you understand.
We have the Bible.
Along comes Joseph Smith who gives us the Book of Mormon. The most "correct" book on earth, unadulterated by those pesky Christians after the "Great Apostacy." The Book of Mormon includes the sermon on the mount as given by Christ to the Nephites. It is word for word the same as what was in King James Version of the Bible.
Years later, Joseph works on an "inspired" version/translation of the Bible. This time, his "inspired" version of the Sermon on the Mount is nothing like what is found in the Bible or Book of Mormon.
If the Book of Mormon is the most correct book, why does its Sermon on the Mount not match Joseph's inspired version? Why does it match the KJV that Joseph readily had access to and used?
When I have time, I'll type out the different versions so you can see it isn't a matter of "using common religious style of the day." Rather, it's a complete reimagining and alteration.
Prestor John
Well-Known Member
Ok, but since you refuse to tell me what you believe the Inspired Version is, I'm going in blind.
The reason that the Inspired Version of those verses was not used is because that would not have been what Jesus had said to the Nephites.
Jesus gave the same information tot he Nephites that He had given to the Jews.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Where similar stories appear in the Bible they never match each other in detail.
Any one translating a new found work,
would use prior knowledge to help in that process.
As I understand it, his own inspired version is not used, and the KJV is in official use today.
That doesn't make any sense.
Bible = What Jesus told the Jews.
BoM = What Jesus told the Nephites.
Inspired Version = What Jesus told the Jews as inspired/corrected by Joseph Smith.
If the inspired version is a correction, and if Jesus gave the same Sermon on the Mount to the Jews and the Nephites, why doesn't the Book of Mormon have the inspired corrected version?
Again, I need to post the verses so you understand.
It's not a matter of "similar stories" it's the same story. The Sermon on the Mount. Joseph's inspired version, which IS in the version of the Bible Mormons used in an index of sorts are routinely cited, was based on his own reading of th Bible and not on any actual "translation." He was correcting the Bible. Why would the Book of Mormon, the most "correct" book, match the incorrect Bible rather than Joseph's inspired version made years later?
Prestor John
Well-Known Member
No he wasn't. He was providing inspired commentary.
No one said that the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew was "incorrect."
The sermon that the Lord gave in Matthew is the same sermon He gave to the Nephites. That is why it is the same.
No wonder you ran away from my question!
Wrong.
The inspired version is Joseph's attempt to correct the Bible. It's not some kind of Cliff Notes.
Prestor John
Well-Known Member
How could I possibly quote Joseph saying that? They didn't have Cliff Notes back then.
From Joseph Smith - Mathew.
"An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23:39 and chapter 24."
Again, it claims to be a "translation," not some study or help guide.
And from D&C 45, the Lord commanded Joseph to "translate," not provide a study guide or help.
60 And now, behold, I say unto you, it shall not be given unto you to know any further concerning this chapter, until the New Testament be translated, and in it all these things shall be made known;
61 Wherefore I give unto you that ye may now translate it, that ye may be prepared for the things to come.
And from the LDS Bible Dictionary (confirming that it was a translation intended to restore what had been lost from the Bible):
Joseph Smith Translation (JST)
A revision or translation of the King James Version of the Bible begun by the Prophet Joseph Smith in June 1830. He was divinely commissioned to make the translation and regarded it as “a branch of his calling” as a prophet. Although the major portion of the work was completed by July 1833, he continued to make modifications while preparing a manuscript for the press until his death in 1844, and it is possible that some additional modifications would have been made had he lived to publish the entire work. Some parts of the translation were published during his lifetime.
The translation process was a learning experience for the Prophet, and several sections of the Doctrine and Covenants (and also other revelations that are not published in the Doctrine and Covenants) were received in direct consequence of the work (D&C 76–77; 91). Also, specific instruction pertaining to the translation is given in D&C 37:1; 45:60–61; 76:15–18; 90:13; 94:10; 104:58; 124:89. The book of Moses and the 24th chapter of Matthew (JS—M), contained in the Pearl of Great Price, are actual excerpts from the JST. Many excerpts from the JST are also given in the appendix and footnotes in the edition of the KJV that accompanies this dictionary. The JST to some extent assists in restoring the plain and precious things that have been lost from the Bible (see 1 Ne. 13–14).
Although not the official Bible of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the JST offers many interesting insights and is an invaluable aid to biblical interpretation and understanding. It is a most fruitful source of useful information for the student of the scriptures. It is likewise a witness for the divine calling and ministry of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
He wouldn't have used that language, your just trying to protect him.
And here are the verses in question, including some commentary from the "CES Letter."
The Book of Mormon includes mistranslated biblical passages that were later changed in Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible. These Book of Mormon verses should match the inspired JST version instead of the incorrect KJV version that Joseph later fixed. A typical example of the differences between the BOM, the KJV, and the JST:
3 Nephi 13:25-27
25: ...Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment.
26: Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27: Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Matthew 6:25-27 (from the King James Version Bible – not the JST)
25: Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26: Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27: Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
The above Sermon on the Mount passages are identical, which is understandable as Christ may have said the same thing to both groups of people in the Old world as well as the New world. Let’s look at the JST version of the above identical passages:
Joseph Smith Translation of the same passages in the LDS Bible for Matthew 6:25-27:
25: And, again, I say unto you, Go ye into the world, and care not for the world: for the world will hate you, and will persecute you, and will turn you out of their synagogues.
26: Nevertheless, ye shall go forth from house to house, teaching the people; and I will go before you.
27: And your heavenly Father will provide for you, whatsoever things ye need for food, what ye shall eat; and for raiment, what ye shall wear or put on.
Christ’s Sermon on the Mount in the Bible and the Book of Mormon are identical. Joseph Smith corrected the Bible. In doing so, he also corrected the same identical Sermon on the Mount passage in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is “the most correct book” and was translated a mere decade before the JST. The Book of Mormon was not corrupted over time and did not need correcting. How is it that the Book of Mormon has the incorrect Sermon on the Mount passage and does not match the correct JST version in the first place?
The Book of Mormon includes mistranslated biblical passages that were later changed in Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible. These Book of Mormon verses should match the inspired JST version instead of the incorrect KJV version that Joseph later fixed. A typical example of the differences between the BOM, the KJV, and the JST:
3 Nephi 13:25-27
25: ...Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment.
26: Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27: Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Matthew 6:25-27 (from the King James Version Bible – not the JST)
25: Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26: Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27: Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
The above Sermon on the Mount passages are identical, which is understandable as Christ may have said the same thing to both groups of people in the Old world as well as the New world. Let’s look at the JST version of the above identical passages:
Joseph Smith Translation of the same passages in the LDS Bible for Matthew 6:25-27:
25: And, again, I say unto you, Go ye into the world, and care not for the world: for the world will hate you, and will persecute you, and will turn you out of their synagogues.
26: Nevertheless, ye shall go forth from house to house, teaching the people; and I will go before you.
27: And your heavenly Father will provide for you, whatsoever things ye need for food, what ye shall eat; and for raiment, what ye shall wear or put on.
Christ’s Sermon on the Mount in the Bible and the Book of Mormon are identical. Joseph Smith corrected the Bible. In doing so, he also corrected the same identical Sermon on the Mount passage in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is “the most correct book” and was translated a mere decade before the JST. The Book of Mormon was not corrupted over time and did not need correcting. How is it that the Book of Mormon has the incorrect Sermon on the Mount passage and does not match the correct JST version in the first place?