The Big Pharma Monster

[Nakosis]

​

So I hear Biden is going up against Big Pharma regarding drug pricing for Medicare and the prediction is he going to lose. 1500 lobbyists against one man. Trump also tried to take on Big Pharma and lost.

Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, a trade organization that spent roughly $8.6 million on lobbying in the first quarter of 2021, sued to block the policy proposals to import lower-priced prescription drugs. Canada has also hinted that they will oppose large-scale exports.

The Pharmaceuticals and Health Products Industry spent about $92 million on lobbying in the first quarter of the year, more than any other industry.
Big Pharma still largest lobbying spender as Biden signs crackdown executive order, House seeks to pass bill lowering drug prices

I suspect a lot of our healthcare issues start with drug cost.
How can we fix this?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

​

So I hear Biden is going up against Big Pharma regarding drug pricing for Medicare and the prediction is he going to lose. 1500 lobbyists against one man. Trump also tried to take on Big Pharma and lost.

Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, a trade organization that spent roughly $8.6 million on lobbying in the first quarter of 2021, sued to block the policy proposals to import lower-priced prescription drugs. Canada has also hinted that they will oppose large-scale exports.

The Pharmaceuticals and Health Products Industry spent about $92 million on lobbying in the first quarter of the year, more than any other industry.
Big Pharma still largest lobbying spender as Biden signs crackdown executive order, House seeks to pass bill lowering drug prices

I suspect a lot of our healthcare issues start with drug cost.
How can we fix this?

You have already answered it yourself: We have the best government that money can buy. So I conclude that you are a communist, traitor and you continue the list.

Seriously I doubt you can. There are to many factor against you turn into a somewhat standard welfare state.

 

[Nakosis]

You have already answered it yourself: We have the best government that money can buy. So I conclude that you are a communist, traitor and you continue the list.

Seriously I doubt you can. There are to many factor against you turn into a somewhat standard welfare state.

Ok, but I don't see other non-communist countries faced with this. How does your country handle it?
If our politicians had the will, but sure, greed seems the better driver in US politics.

 

[exchemist]

​

So I hear Biden is going up against Big Pharma regarding drug pricing for Medicare and the prediction is he going to lose. 1500 lobbyists against one man. Trump also tried to take on Big Pharma and lost.

Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, a trade organization that spent roughly $8.6 million on lobbying in the first quarter of 2021, sued to block the policy proposals to import lower-priced prescription drugs. Canada has also hinted that they will oppose large-scale exports.

The Pharmaceuticals and Health Products Industry spent about $92 million on lobbying in the first quarter of the year, more than any other industry.
Big Pharma still largest lobbying spender as Biden signs crackdown executive order, House seeks to pass bill lowering drug prices

I suspect a lot of our healthcare issues start with drug cost.
How can we fix this?

You could start a national drug procurement organisation. That's what we have in the British NHS. Because it buys centrally, under big contracts, it can get better terms than a fragmented private system. Mind you, purely selfishly for us Brits, I hope the US doesn't do this, because at present the prices Pharma earns in the US help them to bid lower for supply to us in the UK.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ok, but I don't see other non-communist countries faced with this. How does your country handle it?
If our politicians had the will, but sure, greed seems the better driver in US politics.

The short answer. We believe differently, both the public, the politicians and even the capitalists.

 

[Stevicus]

I suspect a lot of our healthcare issues start with drug cost.
How can we fix this?

Price controls are the obvious and sensible solution. That's why our politicians never think of these things.

 

[Kooky]

Ok, but I don't see other non-communist countries faced with this. How does your country handle it?
If our politicians had the will, but sure, greed seems the better driver in US politics.

Single payer healthcare providers can negotiate from a position of strength since they are more or less the only game in town in their respective markets. Many countries also have laws that allow for generic drugs to be sold instead of high-priced brands, which also tends to drive down prices.

 

[exchemist]

Price controls are the obvious and sensible solution. That's why our politicians never think of these things.

Price controls have a very inglorious history.

For drugs I can't see how it would work, because government has no idea what constitutes a "fair" price for any given drug. Where is it in its lifecycle? Have development costs been amortised? What synergies are there between this drug and another, in terms of development, or manufacture? In what locations is it made or could it be made and how does that affect the cost? What effect do raw material costs have? And so on.

I really think the best option is to leave all that to the market and instead seek to rebalance the relative power of buyer and seller.

 

[Nakosis]

Price controls are the obvious and sensible solution. That's why our politicians never think of these things.

The normal problem with price controls is that if producers feel they can no longer make the desire profit, they will turn their attention to other avenues of profit there-by reducing the availability of the product, in this case drugs.
IOW, the only reason we have the availability of the drug is because of the profits.

You can cap the price but you can't force the manufactures to produce the product. This from my understanding is the usually fear against price controls.

Patents also limit the competition. Once the drug has been developed, even if another company could produce it cheaper, it'd be illegal for them to do so.

 

[sun rise]

I suspect a lot of our healthcare issues start with drug cost.
How can we fix this?

I'd avoid reinventing wheels. I would look at how other nations handle drug costs and either pick one or take features from a few. I suspect that every other system from the EU, Canada and the UK are better than ours, so it should be easy to pick one if we had the will to do it.

 

[Kooky]

The normal problem with price controls is that if producers feel they can no longer make the desire profit, they will turn their attention to other avenues of profit there-by reducing the availability of the product, in this case drugs.

This only works where there is little or no competition that would fill in their spot in the market - which should tell us something about the nature of the pharmaceutical industry.

 

[exchemist]

I'd avoid reinventing wheels. I would look at how other nations handle drug costs and either pick one or take features from a few. I suspect that every other system from the EU, Canada and the UK are better than ours, so it should be easy to pick one if we had the will to do it.

The issue will be how to bolt a national procurement initiative onto a system of healthcare that is run by the private sector. But it should be possible, if it charges, say, a no profit fee to cover its admin costs. Health providers could opt in and get cheaper drugs. But you would need a critical mass to start it off, to make sure it did indeed have the market power to drive a better bargain.

 

[Nakosis]

Single payer healthcare providers can negotiate from a position of strength since they are more or less the only game in town in their respective markets. Many countries also have laws that allow for generic drugs to be sold instead of high-priced brands, which also tends to drive down prices.

Our single payer would be the government which seems to be in the hands of the lobbyists. The cost of single payer, such as it is, is a major obstacle. Sure the POTUS has fought to open the market to generic drugs but the lawmakers seem unwilling to support them.

Just takes enough "lobbying" to keep the required number of votes from happening.

 

[Nakosis]

I'd avoid reinventing wheels. I would look at how other nations handle drug costs and either pick one or take features from a few. I suspect that every other system from the EU, Canada and the UK are better than ours, so it should be easy to pick one if we had the will to do it.

I think we've done that. The US seems to have special needs.

 

[Nakosis]

The short answer. We believe differently, both the public, the politicians and even the capitalists.

Fair enough. Are your politicians professional elitists?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd avoid reinventing wheels. I would look at how other nations handle drug costs and either pick one or take features from a few. I suspect that every other system from the EU, Canada and the UK are better than ours, so it should be easy to pick one if we had the will to do it.

That's basically what Romney did when he made his healthcare system by taking elements of the Dutch healthcare system.

 

[sun rise]

I think we've done that. The US seems to have special needs.

I don't see the US as having special needs. We have special problems with lobbying but our basic needs are the same.

 

[Stevicus]

Price controls have a very inglorious history.

For drugs I can't see how it would work, because government has no idea what constitutes a "fair" price for any given drug. Where is it in its lifecycle? Have development costs been amortised? What synergies are there between this drug and another, in terms of development, or manufacture? In what locations is it made or could it be made and how does that affect the cost? What effect do raw material costs have? And so on.

I really think the best option is to leave all that to the market and instead seek to rebalance the relative power of buyer and seller.

It generally depends on how it's set up. Price controls were quite successful during World War II.

I'm not a fan of market economics anyway, but when it comes to healthcare, I don't think it's feasible or humane to operate that way.

Fact is, if we really, truly operated according to free market economics in healthcare, there wouldn't be any "war on drugs" or any such thing as a "controlled substance." There would be no such thing as prescription requirements or pharmacies, since all drugs should be over the counter in a truly free market situation. But since that's not the case, you can't really operate according to market economics in this realm.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Fair enough. Are your politicians professional elitists?

Well, yes, But if that is too simple as a factor alone. We are into something that is hard to quantify, because it is subjective qualities.

Since I am Danish, I will stick to that.
Okay, where to start.
Well, around the beginning of the 1900's we made a compromise. The capitalists controlled the money and production and what I should do for my pay as a worker. The workers were allowed to form unions and go on strike and the capitalists could use lockouts. If it came to a hard spot, the government was allow to make a compromise by turning it into law.
That is one example. Now here is how absurd it is to some. A restaurant some years ago tried to use no union workers and wouldn't negotiate with the unions. So here is the kicker. The unions asked other members of other unions to boykott to the restaurant, so for example the restaurant couldn't get deliveries, because the workers bringing the deliveries could refuse.

Well, you will ask - what does that have to do with your thread? It is about mindset. How you view the parts as humans in a process and how you resolve differences?!!
A welfare state is a compromise between different parts and the role of the government is to look out for all. And I mean all.

So here is the Danish tradition. For regular laws one side or the other has majority, but for the big structural changes they are almost always compromises between the 2 sides.
It is in the mind.

 

[Secret Chief]

I'd avoid reinventing wheels. I would look at how other nations handle drug costs and either pick one or take features from a few. I suspect that every other system from the EU, Canada and the UK are better than ours, so it should be easy to pick one if we had the will to do it.

Isn't government intervention a defining feature of Communist Dictatorship?