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The Bible

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Isis, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. Isis

    Isis Member

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    I don't understand how some can base their arguments on a book, maybe some of you could shed some light that I may not have considered?

    Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a fully Christian family and attended church every Sunday for 12 years of my life (after which I chose to take another direction and live life for and from myself), I can understand the meaning behind the words, the direction that it is supposed to set our minds and actions towards, but it's still just a book, right?
    The fact that the word was 'sent by God' is very questionable and though it could be a test of faith, (to believe that god could touch the lives of some to creat such an epic) but it can also just be the proof of the misenturpritation created over centuries of 'story telling'.

    I see saying 'Becasue God said so' as a very weak argument in this modern day and age of facts and realism.
     
  2. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    I've always felt that because God is infinite, and God's wisdom is infinite, it is silly to believe that God would have so little to say to mankind, that It would give us a text that is so finite and so short that there has been able to be so much dispute about it over the centuries...there are so many people out there willing to be devout Christians... it seems like God would do something to gather them ALL up!
     
  3. jay1_z

    jay1_z Member

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    God wants us to believe in him by faith. That is why he doesn't part any more seas or send fire down from heaven on our command. Besides the fact that none of us are worthy of that, if He decided to show his true power to us everyday people would tend to trust and love his power and authority. He doesn't want that. He wants us to love and trust in him, not his power. It's easy to become friends with your neighbor if they have money and constantly buy you things but if they lose their money and can't buy you anything will you continue to be there friend? No! Not if your entire relationship was built on that money. If it started before the money then it's a different story. God wants us to start our relationship with loving him. The blessings and glory of God are perks that come after we learn to love him for who he is, not what he has done for us.
     
  4. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but using your neighbor analogy, look at it this way:

    The real "neighbor" writes in the Bible "There are no neighbors before me."

    Say there are 100 neighbors in one "neighborhood". (100 different views of Christianity and God all grouped under the term "Christianity")

    It is our job to chose which of the neighbors is the "REAL" neighbor.

    The people believing they follow this true neighbor use the Bible to help them discover which "neighbor" is the one spoken of in the Bible and follow it. They all live lives in which they repent for their sins, love God, etc etc etc. But they have some basic differences in how they think they should achieve these ends because the Bible is NOT clear--it is open to interpretation. So they each follow a different "neighbor" (again, translate this term as "version of Christianity"/"view of God") and all claim that they are following the one "true" neighbor and that all the other followers are wrong.

    Clearly, only one of these 100 neighbors is the same one from the Bible. That means that the followers of all the rest are following false Gods and false interpretations of Christianity. They will (under Christian belief) all go to Hell for following false Gods, even though they did everything the real God said, except in the name of a false God...
     
  5. Isis

    Isis Member

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    Okay, but if God is all powerful why does he allow us to create these false idols to woship?

    Jay1_z your post reminded me of a quote I heard, that a mans true nature is revealed in the way he treats someone of absolutly no good to him. So, in treating the neibour who does not give material gain with respect and honor you are rising above pety materialism and proving that gallentry is a function of our own outlook. (gaining instead from what they have not given us, instead of what they could have)

    I have to disagree with that becasue I think loving him for his power is idolizing him, one of the ten commandments is it not?
    I, personally, choose to stay away from Christianity because I find it loaded with inconsistancies and hypocracies and instead choose to worship an idea instead of a man (or deity).
    I believe that we are all in control of our minds and destiny and whoever created us for this purpose can't or won't intervine. But who created us is not of importance in the time we have on this rock. I figure, eventually enough we all will meet our creator, even if is just a figment of out imagination the minute or so after death that the brain still functions (that minute is theorized to last an eternity, therefore being an afterlife... an interesting topic if anyone has any ferther info on it). Since we will all die and go wherever it is predestined we should forget about it as we live and instead work to better ourselves by ourself and for ourself, not for a god we have no proof of. (that to me is corrpt, to stive for betterness becasue it was written for us to do instead of bettering ourselves to be the best we can be)
    I guess you could consider my views existentialistic, but again, I choose not to define them because through subscribing to one set of beliefs I discount others that deserve just as much consideration
    (make sence?)

    this was written in haste so if any clarification on my idea is needed feel free to question or critisize 8)
     
  6. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello all, and God bless. God allows us to make idols, because forced loved is not love at all. Next, if one is saying that the bible is not trustworthy ask me your question, I will do my best to help you find the answer. In addition, all my studies of the sciptures have only proven its truthfulness and consistency, not its inconsistency. Also, as for proof how much do you need? The fact that there are thousands of prophecies in the bible written at different times, different authors, and at different places, yet all have been fulfilled to their exactness and have been consistent is pretty convincing. For example, God had all specific prophecies, one idea of one is that this person will be born at this time at this place into this family to this empire. However, the prophecy was exactly fulfilled hundreds of years later to a family that was not known at the time, and the empire did not even exist when the prophecy was made, yet it was fulfilled. Many more examples are out there in the Bible, plus the Bible is not just supported by prophecy. Anyhow, if you want to investigate please seek or ask me, I may be able to help.

    God bless and love to all (Romans 10:9-10)
     
  7. dudley thoth

    dudley thoth Member

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    the Word of God is Jesus himself. the Bible, i would say, is a 'vehicle' for the Word, which transcends all. It's purpose is to open the hearts of all, adults as well as children, to the reality of Jesus so they may be set free from the awfullness of sin, and be united with God once again, as we were in the beginning before creation, as we know it, began.
    are the words of Paul (for instance) the infallible words of God? i don't think so. only in eternity when the church is totally united with God and our desires are again his desires will, we his people, speak 100% the word of God. bless you all!
     
  8. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    are the words of Paul (for instance) the infallible words of God? i don't think so. only in eternity when the church is totally united with God and our desires are again his desires will, we his people, speak 100% the word of God. bless you all![/quote]Hello dudley throth, and God bless. Want to say something, if you are going to use that argument then all scripture is void, because are the words of Isaiah infallible? The key is seeing that all scripture was in reality written by God's revelation, hence it is indeed infallible. As 2 Timothy 3:16-17(NIV) says, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

    God Bless and love (Romans 10:9-10)
     
  9. ONEWAY

    ONEWAY Member

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    Hello, Runt and God bless you. One thing to note to you many people today are saying 'my interpretation is just as good as yours.' However, this is not true, there is a way to study the word of God. One must, like any book, look at the context of what is being said or written. Without the context no book could ever be understood. In addition, many today and of days before, are doing this with the bible, however there VIEWS really do not matter, for the bible is not based on views but truth. Their is a proper way of understanding the bible and that is by the context and by the bible as a whole (For the bible is God's complete revelation to all mankind). The bible is very unopen to interpretation, and that is in part why many new religions have began, because individuals have taken God's word and INTERPRETED it wrongly, for the context reveals the foley.

    God Bless (Romans 10:9-10)
     
  10. dudley thoth

    dudley thoth Member

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    Hello dudley throth, and God bless. Want to say something, if you are going to use that argument then all scripture is void, because are the words of Isaiah infallible? The key is seeing that all scripture was in reality written by God's revelation, hence it is indeed infallible. As 2 Timothy 3:16-17(NIV) says, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

    God Bless and love (Romans 10:9-10) thank you for the critisism. this may seem a somewhat ridiculous counter-argument but people communicate with one another on a daily basis and often speak words of untruth,yet that doesn't mean that the truth is never spoken. the truth can even be spoken through untruth such is the power of God. evil, when it is truly faced can only frustrate itself. to Quote paul: "for we know that in ALL THINGS God works for the GOOD of those who love him"(romans 8:28 N.I.V, capitols-mine). "and how do you know this to be true?" you might ask. "through experience" is my answer! i'm sorry if i sound self-righteous, i don't mean to. thats what destroys the world, but it is through trusting God (something i myself am unable to do of MYSELF) and leaning according to his faithfulness, that we understand what the true word of God really is. blight acceptence of a book that is clearly erronious (in parts) is dangerous if we take all that such a belief entails to its extreme.
    Paul probably believed in the Hebrew scriptures 100%, as we might expect of anyone calling themselves a "hebrew of Hebrews". he believed in the O.T with knobs on! he doesn't actually say that though does he? " all scripture is God breathed." this i believe to be true. poetry often conveys truth that literal hardline black and white reasoning often destroys.yet that doesn't prevent its misuse. i'm waffling on now. please forgive me. and if i am wrong "Lord forgive me and lead me into the light" Amen.
     
  11. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    jay1_z,

    Or perhaps the instances when he did part water and send down fire were simply stories, and today we are living in reality. Just a thought.

    Numero uno: Have you ever thought of the fact that he created you to be exactly as you are? I.e., he created you imperfectly and 'sinful'. Now, it just doesn't seem right to me that he would thus create you, and then punish you for the 'imperfections' which he himself bestowed upon you.
    Secondly, is there anyone here who believes in god who trusts him for anything else besides his power and authority? I mean, think about it: What do you think god does for you? He protects you from satan, makes sure his 'plan' is going smoothly, accepts prayers, throws down a couple miracles and maybe a couple lightening bolts. What from that list does not involve power and authority? In fact, what is the alternative??
     
  12. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    ONEWAY:

    Can you enlighten me as to who the person is who decides what the 'correct' interpretation of the bible is? Do you think you have the correct interpretation? What is your source for that, because I can assure you that there are millions of people out there with millions of different interpretations, no matter how big or how small, and I can also guarentee you that they feel as adament about their interpretations as you do. The greatest documents of all time, bible, constitution, etc., all have one thing in common: they are highly ambiguous. Why is this? So that they can grow and change with the times.

    By implying that you hold the 'true' interpretation, you are daring to suggest that your knowledge and wisdom match that of god's. You may as well claim special insight to a brick wall for me, because I don't believe in god, but I used to be very religious and what I say holds true.
     
  13. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    One other thing:

    I started a new topic under 'religious discussions' entitled Is the Bible reliable?. Check it out.
     
  14. jonjohnrob11

    jonjohnrob11 Member

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    isis: it takes faith to believe that the authors of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. if u want the gift of faith, pray for it. i will for u.
    the Bible has almost every form of literature in it: story's, similes, analogies, parables, poetry, proverbs, songs, metaphors, allegories, etc. most of it is literal. i hope this helps ure faith. butch
     
  15. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Why some believe and others do not..
    Isaiah, "In the year that king Uzzi'ah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

    2 Above it stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

    3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

    4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

    5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

    6 ΒΆ Then flew one of the seraphim unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

    7 and he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

    8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

    9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

    10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

    12 and the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

    13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof."

    And such as those that hear the word several things can happen. 1) Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that is sown in ones heart.
    2) others when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and have no root in themselves so endure but for a time, afterward, when affliction or persecution arise immediately they are offended. 3) cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, lusts of other things, choke the word, becoming unfruitful. 4) and they which hear it, receive it, and bring forth fruit.

    Well I'm under the impression that no matter what happens there will always be people that simply CAN NOT be believers.
     
  16. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    true blood,

    Why is it that you think some people just cannot be believers?
     
  17. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Before I say anything else, let me make one thing clear: as far as I am concerned, we are all searchers for truth. We all seek knowledge and understanding in our own individual way. Therefore no one has the right to speak with 'final authority' on truth. Truth is open to all, but the way thereto is strictly an individual affair. We shouldn't take anything as true unless it feels right deep down inside. Why do I feel that some people can't be believers? Free-will. I feel that God wants his creation to serve him out of free-will, not by choice. Also in the bible many parables are used. The Parable of the Sower for instance. The sower soweth the word.
    And these are they by the wayside, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred

    From this parable alone you see several events that describe what can happen when the word of god is planted in man's heart. Not all will hear it, receive it, and and have become fruitful. Although the choice is available for all.

    I know there's more info about predestined christians preordained by God before the beginnings of time. Every true believer is supposedly "bought with a price"

    I probably should of stated that because of "Free will" some people cannot be believers. God wants everyone to believe in him, however he doesn't force it.
     
  18. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    jay1_z,

    Or perhaps the instances when he did part water and send down fire were simply stories, and today we are living in reality. Just a thought.

    Numero uno: Have you ever thought of the fact that he created you to be exactly as you are? I.e., he created you imperfectly and 'sinful'. Now, it just doesn't seem right to me that he would thus create you, and then punish you for the 'imperfections' which he himself bestowed upon you.
    Secondly, is there anyone here who believes in god who trusts him for anything else besides his power and authority? I mean, think about it: What do you think god does for you? He protects you from satan, makes sure his 'plan' is going smoothly, accepts prayers, throws down a couple miracles and maybe a couple lightening bolts. What from that list does not involve power and authority? In fact, what is the alternative??
     
  19. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    ONEWAY:

    Can you enlighten me as to who the person is who decides what the 'correct' interpretation of the bible is? Do you think you have the correct interpretation? What is your source for that, because I can assure you that there are millions of people out there with millions of different interpretations, no matter how big or how small, and I can also guarentee you that they feel as adament about their interpretations as you do. The greatest documents of all time, bible, constitution, etc., all have one thing in common: they are highly ambiguous. Why is this? So that they can grow and change with the times.

    By implying that you hold the 'true' interpretation, you are daring to suggest that your knowledge and wisdom match that of god's. You may as well claim special insight to a brick wall for me, because I don't believe in god, but I used to be very religious and what I say holds true.
     
  20. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    One other thing:

    I started a new topic under 'religious discussions' entitled Is the Bible reliable?. Check it out.
     
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