outhouse
Atheistically
I never intended on being an atheist.
Reason and logic eventually won out, and now with education and knowledge, and having more experience with religious ideology. I could never have faith again.
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The Beauty of the Qur'an and the Binary Nature of Islam
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
- Start date
I never intended on being an atheist.
Reason and logic eventually won out, and now with education and knowledge, and having more experience with religious ideology. I could never have faith again.
gnostic
The Lost One
I always believe that it is more important to understand the books (not just the Qur'an', I mean any book) you read than just admire them for their poetry, beautiful they may or may not be, or they sound.
I mean, if a person can recite anything, and it sound so beautiful that it seeming roll off the tongue, like a song, but if you don't understand the words behind the reciting, then it is just "noise".
Maybe it is just me, I am not a musical or poetic person. What is more important to me are the contexts and not the beauty of poetry or verses.
My problem is that verses in religious texts, are not often clear or self-explanatory, so it would require more time spent in deciphering verses in finding what they mean; so it would require great of time interpreting passages.
Beside all that, I can only read English, so whatever beauty is within the Qur'an, is possibly or most likely during translation from Arabic to English. None of the English translations that I have access to, demonstrate its beauty.
But I find this strange. They say that the works of Homer - The Iliad and The Odyssey - were masterpieces of Greek literature. I can't read Greek, so I can't testify if the verses are great when read in Greek, beautifully poetic. But these these two works, written over a thousand years before the Qur'an, transmitted well in other languages, like Latin, Italian, French, German, English, etc.
My favourite translations to The Iliad and The Odyssey, come from Robert Fagles, which were translated and written in "verse" form, and I could see the beauty of epic poetry, despite them being English translations. If it is a beauty in Ancient Greek or modern Greek than it should be beauty in whatever languages they have been translated from.
Now I normally dislike King James Version (KJV) because some of words used are archaic, but I have to admire that it translated Beautitudes (Matthew 5:3-12) and David's The Lord is my Shepherd... (Psalm 23) are excellently done in KJV English.
Perhaps it is the translators to the Qur'an are not so good. I just don't see the beauty to the Qur'an, because as they are in English, the verses seemed haphazard or clumsy. Perhaps, they needed some poets to help with translation.
I mean, if a person can recite anything, and it sound so beautiful that it seeming roll off the tongue, like a song, but if you don't understand the words behind the reciting, then it is just "noise".
Maybe it is just me, I am not a musical or poetic person. What is more important to me are the contexts and not the beauty of poetry or verses.
My problem is that verses in religious texts, are not often clear or self-explanatory, so it would require more time spent in deciphering verses in finding what they mean; so it would require great of time interpreting passages.
Beside all that, I can only read English, so whatever beauty is within the Qur'an, is possibly or most likely during translation from Arabic to English. None of the English translations that I have access to, demonstrate its beauty.
But I find this strange. They say that the works of Homer - The Iliad and The Odyssey - were masterpieces of Greek literature. I can't read Greek, so I can't testify if the verses are great when read in Greek, beautifully poetic. But these these two works, written over a thousand years before the Qur'an, transmitted well in other languages, like Latin, Italian, French, German, English, etc.
My favourite translations to The Iliad and The Odyssey, come from Robert Fagles, which were translated and written in "verse" form, and I could see the beauty of epic poetry, despite them being English translations. If it is a beauty in Ancient Greek or modern Greek than it should be beauty in whatever languages they have been translated from.
Now I normally dislike King James Version (KJV) because some of words used are archaic, but I have to admire that it translated Beautitudes (Matthew 5:3-12) and David's The Lord is my Shepherd... (Psalm 23) are excellently done in KJV English.
Perhaps it is the translators to the Qur'an are not so good. I just don't see the beauty to the Qur'an, because as they are in English, the verses seemed haphazard or clumsy. Perhaps, they needed some poets to help with translation.
outhouse
Atheistically
I have heard a few NT passages in Aramaic, they roll out in unison. They did a recreation of Jesus the man and had a actor read off passages it was pretty cool in its native tongue.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Even some parts of Mein Kamp os beautifully written.
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Vulva is the sexual organ of women
This word is written in the Koran
But the word **** it means the process of citizenship and not to marry
Ankja and what women of your choice, two or three, or four and proprietary
وانكحوا ما طاب لكم من النساء مثنى وثلاث ورباع وما ملكت ايمانكم
Pay attention here to the marriage of slaves and be here without a marriage contract
Van speak Arabic
I think you know the meaning of the word good ****
And I hope that does not hide the truth
Even people taken advantage of this and get rid of the Islamic Education
And either the Torah
I think it's a special theme, because Judaism is not a religion of terrorismBut you did not tell me what is the beauty of the state of Abu Wahab
And Surat Almaoon
I guess that a Muslim to read the Koran like a parrot
Did not know the meaning of words
Learn to pronounce and say it and Erthelha without an open mind
This is a problem of Islam and Muslims
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
I fully agree.
@Debater Slayer, only you know your own world view but I’m asking myself whether you have realized the irony that now you possibly belong to the “disbelievers” yourself.
@Debater Slayer, only you know your own world view but I’m asking myself whether you have realized the irony that now you possibly belong to the “disbelievers” yourself.
I indeed belong to the "disbelievers" now. It's not irony so much as it is tribalism and an "us vs. them" mentality. It's not unique to Muslim fundamentalists though; I think fanatics of just about every belief system are prone to adopting this type of tribalism. Even some atheists display it.
I actually find it amusing that your'e ranting at me as if I were a Muslim or as if I considered the Qur'an to be some paragon of truth and beauty. I have already pointed out that I just think some parts of it are beautiful, not all or even most.
The knee-jerk reaction tells quite a bit, though. You can go on if you wish.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Sorry for something that does not relate to the words of your post but the signs given beneath it, and I like them:
I want to copy it and replace the writing with the words "Love for all hatred for none" to appear in all my posts. Please
Thanks and regards
Last edited:
gnostic
The Lost One
Like I said before, I can't read or understand Arabic, but you are certainly right about it when translated into English.
I've wondered if it is any better in Greek, French, Italian or German?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
If translated correctly, Quran is amazing in every language, it is marvelous in meaning more than spell it creates on those who listen to the Recitation in Arabic. It is for this that mostly its translation in any language and the text in Arabic are given side by side. Please learn to recite it in Arabic and its translation together to make best use of both.
Regards
gnostic
The Lost One
If I want to learn to read or understand any language, I would rather start with ancient Greek, Latin, Egyptian hieroglyphs, Sumerian/Akkadian/Babylonian and Ugaritic cuneiforms, old Norse and runes, and Chinese and Japanese scripts.
Hebrew, Arabic and Persian scripts would be included among the writings I would like to read, but not before learning all these other languages that I am interested in...in exactly that order.
outhouse
Atheistically
Your like me in ways. We both like the real origins of the plagiarized mythology, Sumerian/Akkadian/Babylonian and Ugaritic cuneiforms are my favorite.
What you call "plagarized" I call the expression of the same eternal truth in different ways in different languages for different times. If the truth is not eternal then it's not the truth. That is also the scientific principle of uniformitarianism which states that the laws of the universe are the same for all time and space.
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Excuse me
I ask you an honest word
And you speak Arabic
What do those words mean
Marriage and vulva
I'm not a Muslim but I am the oldest of Islam to the people as it is without frills and no pious
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Sorry word النكاح والفرج
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
I searched the web for translations of the Koran and I found this French translator
Hza to the Quranic verse
Trousers are you an accurate translation in effect
This is the problem that the Koran has been translated literally, it will be a wonder of the Worlds
For example, as we translate the word **** we are Ntrj word Faraj as is
I think it's going to be the word of God magnificent ????
Koran in the French language in which this verse is translated: Al-Baqarah verse 187 lawful to you the night of fasting, your wives are obscene to dress you as you wear them, so was the translator: Trousers are trousers you and you to them. . . And how they can translate these delicate metaphors to explain and extend the lead one word long phrases.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
It is true.
Regards
gnostic
The Lost One
Except that there are no eternal truth.
If there were truth that's exist eternally, then all these truths from different religions should be exactly the same...but they are not the same.
Different ways don't always lead to the same end results.
Different times cause us how to rethink what we have done or known in the past.
Different languages and different cultures lead to diversity, which again, don't always lead to the same end results.