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The Authority of the Church

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Mr Spinkles, Dec 8, 2004.

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  1. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    For the record:

    I am NOT a protestant.

    I am NOT a Catholic.

    I am NOT a reformer.

    I am simply a Christian.

    Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

    As for cleaning "my own house", I have no problems with that, and I try to do it on a daily basis. Being fairly "Pete-centric" is a given and my brothers can see me better than I can. When you intimate that I "answer to no one", you obviously have no clue what I believe in. But yes, as a tool for discussion it really has no place, which is why I never addressed it.

    BTW, I find that your separation of "tradition and scripture" completely ignores God's power. You see this as merely a human effort, while I see a superhuman force at work. Scripture is referred to as "graphe" or that which is written. No where do the authors of the New Testament restrict that meaning and exclude the letters and Gospels that were written. I only see inclusion of the apostle's teachings here and not other wise. I DO however, see the exclusion of any ADDITIONAL teachings (Galatians and Revelations) as well as evidence that there were several apostate churches who had LEFT the Apostle's teachings. Was the Catholic sect one of these? You must decide for yourself. But they obviously do not hold only to the teachings of the apostles.

    You have repeatedly made the case that Catholics also wrote what we have come to call the New Testament. I have yet to hear a retraction of that statement in spite of no compelling evidence (Christian or Catholic) to support it. I do appreciate that you are far less strident in your assertion here.

    You have also pointed out that the bishop who canonized the scriptures referred to the catholic Church, and not the Catholic church. Not even he referred to the church by any other name than the "church" and yet you maintain the "superiority" of your sect for doing this or that.

    Matthew 6:1 "Be careful not to do your `acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

    You asked earlier how we could "identify" the men to listen to. I tried to answer, but technology got in the way! The answer is WAY simple. Look at their fruit.

    Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' 24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash." 28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

    Galations 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.


    So inspect the fruit. If you like what you see, then great. Just remember your salvation may just depend on it.
     
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  2. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    well put netdoc

    *applaud*(there's no applauding smilie?)
     
  3. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    I mean most of those acting on G-d's authority have performed either miracles or are prophets. Are you a prophet of G-d?

    I expect that if we are talking about the Jesus of the Gospels he would be able to perform the sort of miracles that are attributed to his return.
     
  4. jvi

    jvi Member

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    Miracles. Waking the spiritually blind. Raising the "spiritually dead". Helping the blind to "see". Curing the "spiritual leper".
     
  5. jvi

    jvi Member

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    Oops.Messed up the quote thing.This part was mine.

    'Prophets tell of future events. I can tell you Bush is leading America to rule under the antichrist Noahide Laws of the Schneerson Lubavitch movement which is modern day Esau/Edom Pharisee Law. Red Esau Shield Rothschild money is in control of it all. They rejected Christ back then and they reject Christ today. If people don't wise up they will be living in an antichrist ruled America."

    By antichrist I mean they reject Jesus Christ as the Saviour.
     
  6. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    but if you don't believe, you can't reject.is your judgement black and white, or may a gray area be left to the supeior judge?
     
  7. jvi

    jvi Member

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    There is no inbetween. People are either prochrist or antichrist. Not believing would be antichrist correct. God is truth. Truth is the superior judge.
     
  8. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    and what is to be made of those whom have never heard of him?
     
  9. jvi

    jvi Member

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    They just end up living in a world controlled by those who have. I personally don't know what happens after physical death.
     
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  10. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Ahem, it that arrogance of thinking that the world is in your control that is the reason control is being lost. Secularism and Islam are growing faster than Christianity can bred.

    Bob
     
  11. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    how do tribes of people in africa for example whom have never heard of jesus and live independantly from our version of the world, live in a world controlled by us?

    another example would be the pre-1492 native americans.were they pro-christ or anti-christ?
     
  12. jvi

    jvi Member

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    I wasn't saying Christianity controls the world. I was saying the world is controlled by those who have heard of Christ. Some groups reject Christ and others don't. If the world accepted Jesus as truth we would have a state of Heaven on Earth
     
  13. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    And if people accepted the supremacy of the IPU the same would happen.
     
  14. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    accepting 'jesus' as truth is not hand and hand with peaceful behavior.
     
  15. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    I'm going to have to agree with HelpMe on this one.. I do not accept Jesus as my savior and I am a peacefull person. I know several Christians who are not peacefull. It is a sad ploy to blame the 'unbelievers' of the world on the 'evil' state of world affiars. The 'its all THIER fault things are bad' is the same excuse used by the Nazis, KKK and thier ilk. We all make this world 'heaven' or 'hell' and pointing fingers is the quickest way to make it 'hell'.

    wa:do
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    Right. It's the rich Jewish conpiracy that is responsible for all of our woes.

    This is precisely the same antisemitic garbage used to justify the Holocaust.
     
  17. jvi

    jvi Member

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    If those people lived in an environment of truth and loved one another then they were prochrist because Christ is the spirit of truth which is God. The Bible just shows the creation of false religion and how it controls mankind. It tells us to stay away from false religion. God's religion is basically love one another and love truth which is God.

    The main thing to think about is, where is mankind as a group headed? will it be led by people who have the spirit of truth in them?

    If you study the Bible and Jesus you will be able to see who the lying controllers are.
     
  18. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Deut I agree... I missed that completely, but what a load of arrogant religious DUNG. No one controls this world but SATAN. No sect, religion or philosophy can accept that responsibility.

    Why bring up the "Rothchilds"? Is this indeed an anti-semitic post? I surely hope not.
     
  19. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Please don't evade this question. Is this an anti-semitic post?

    Do you hold Jews responsible for the world today?

    I have never heard of the Rothchilds... who are they?
     
  20. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    i don't think the bush family is jewish.yet they remain the most visible hurdle inbetween the world's population and a peaceful civilization.
     
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