That bad girl, Lilith

[Splarnst]

You are one of those guys that picks everything apart then claim you said this to post number blah blah. Your mind is set that you are right. Everyone else is wrong. Gotcha. No thanks. That is not debate. That is talking to yon wall. I'll pass.

And you're one of those people who insists that 2+2=5 is merely a different but equally valid opinion and who doesn't care about the facts or logic. See how easy it is to jump to conclusions and throw around baseless accusations?

The weird thing is that I don't even know why we're talking. Your original reply seemed completely unrelated to what it quoted.

 

[Maureen]

Word. You must have the last one, right? Have at it.

 

[gnostic]

The only reference to Lilith is a demon in Isaiah 34:14:

Wildcats shall meet the hyenas,
Goat-demons shall greet each other;
There too the lilith shall repose
And find herself a resting place.

There is nothing to link the lilith in Isaiah 34:14 to her being Adam's wife or to her being in the Garden or none of Isaiah 34:14 relates to any part of Genesis.

Lilith does however appeared in Jewish folklore, like in The Book of Legends (or Sefer Ha-Aggadah). Also known simply as the Haggada, is interpretation and expansion of the Torah and other parts of the Tanakh. A translation can be found in the Sacred Texts website, under the title - Legends of the Jews, translated by Louis Ginzberg 1909. See Volume 1, chapter 2, under the heading - WOMAN.

Bad Lilith. Refused to stay two steps behind her man. Refused to be on the bottom. Wanted to be equal to Adam. Or so I heard.

Nothing in this legend of Lilith say any anything about have sex on the bottom; this is found in Kkabbalah legend, between the 8th and 10th century CE, The Alphabet of ben Sira. She just wanted equality, because she was made from the same material as Adam.

She certainly is pre-biblical. Whether she was ever in the Bible explicitly and was removed or whether her role as Adam's wife was a later romantic invention is incredibly difficult to discern.

As in Jewish literature with Adam, then "yes", she is a late invention. And though Isaiah mention a demon called lilith, this is not the same demon in the legend of Adam.

But the she-demon lilith does predate any biblical literature. In fact, she was in one old Sumerian poem of Gilgamesh (called Bilgames or Gilgames in Sumerian legend) called Bilgames and the Netherworld. A translation can be found in 1999 Penguin Classics title - The Epic of Gilgamesh, translated by Andrew George.

According to this poem, some demons, including the lilithu, had infested the beautiful halub tree (possibly a willow tree) in Uruk, which the goddess Inana wanted to create her throne from. This caused great distress to the goddess, so Gilgamesh drove away the demons for the goddess. So yes, the demon lilith/lilithu is pre-Biblical.

 

[Splarnst]

Word. You must have the last one, right? Have at it.

Isn't that what you just tried to do?

 

[fallingblood]

Word. You must have the last one, right? Have at it.

Yet you still responded to him, thus trying to get the last word.

The main problem with the discussion you opened is that it is based on poor research. It was, for the most part, dismissed as it just didn't have support, and it relied on a misunderstanding.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Bad Lilith. Refused to stay two steps behind her man. Refused to be on the bottom. Wanted to be equal to Adam. Or so I heard.

The bible doesn't say much about her. It must have been deleted during the transcribe process by the men who thought woman should know her place. Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. Which is one of the many reasons why I take the Bible with a grain of salt.

Has anyone ever played the game where there is a line of people and the first person says The Sky Is Blue but by the time it gets to the end of the line, the words are not The Sky Is Blue but instead is John Boinked Jill At The Top Of The Hill or some such wacko sentence.

The bible has been transcribed by too many men (I stress the word men), who had others in higher power that had agendas, so they took some passages out to suit their own during those particular times and did as they were told. Some passages never made it into what is now known as The Word Of God. And some complete gospels have been left out as well. After all, it would not suit to have the Gospels of Mary. She did not belong in the parlor with the men while they had their brandy, nor was she to bother her pretty little head over men talk. She was regulated to the other parlor, with her crochet or knitting needles with the other women folk.

So, back to Lilith. Eve was not first woman. Lilith was. And the bible is very silent about her, isn't it? I guess she wanted to be in the parlor with the brandy and "men talk".

I thought this discussion was about the way women is portrayed in the Word of God and that men did it unfairly. Why havent you said a word about the many heroic and looked up to women I listed?

 

[Maureen]

I thought this discussion was about the way women is portrayed in the Word of God and that men did it unfairly. Why havent you said a word about the many heroic and looked up to women I listed?

That about sums it up.

I thank gnostic who gave the interesting info regarding lilith. Jacob also "got" what I was referring to.

I came here to seek comraderie and discussion, not to be berated for "poor research" on a topic I thought might garner interest. My bad.

I'm pretty sure this is not the board for me.

I wish you all well.

 

[Shermana]

The Alphabet of Ben Sirach is considered to be a parody, so the refusing to be on the bottom may be a joke.

The fact remains that the word for "Night Spirit" is "Lilith", if anything this verse is a proof text of the existence of disembodied souls wandering out.

 

[gnostic]

The Alphabet of Ben Sirach is considered to be a parody, so the refusing to be on the bottom may be a joke.

The fact remains that the word for "Night Spirit" is "Lilith", if anything this verse is a proof text of the existence of disembodied souls wandering out.

Well I don't take it seriously. For me, it is all myths, regardless if they are parody or not. I was just presenting the known sources about Lilith, and The Alphabet of Ben Sirach was just one of those sources.

What is clear, it is late invention about Adam. And what is also known is that the demon lilithu is far older than any Biblical materials, but unrelated to the Hebrew version.

 

[JacobEzra.]

That about sums it up.

I thank gnostic who gave the interesting info regarding lilith. Jacob also "got" what I was referring to.

I came here to seek comraderie and discussion, not to be berated for "poor research" on a topic I thought might garner interest. My bad.

I'm pretty sure this is not the board for me.

I wish you all well.

What sums it up? You making a claim, and then ignoring the facts that you are wrong?