Surprising Sex Stats: Probably Three In Four Pregnancies End In Abortion. Other Stats . . . .

[lewisnotmiller]

Nope. Miscarriages are a minority of abortions in the 1st world.

Based on what?
Anecdotally, the three women closest to me (wife, mother and sister) have all had at least one miscarriage, and no abortions. Of the three, none would be characterised as 'sexually irresponsible' unless by the absolute strictest of religious criteria.

Stepping back from personal experience;
New Research Shows Most Human Pregnancies End in Miscarriage

The stat didn't separate miscarriages from induced abortions. Normative use of abortion isn't about miscarriages. More so she babbled about shame and such which places the meaning into induced abortions.

But that's my very point. If 3 in 4 pregnancies end in either abortion or miscarriage, stating that 3 out of 4 pregnancies were irresponsible lumps everyone in together. Abortions due to rape or medical necessity, those of convenience, miscarriages...

The way the video in the OP is worded and structured strikes me as unhelpful, and possibly intentionally dramatic or misleading.

But you stating that 3 out of 4 pregnancies is irresponsible means you're not merely being misleading, but are using erroneous maths. Unless you see miscarriages as irresponsible, but I'm assuming not.

I get it was a throwaway line, but still felt the need to call it out.

 

[Shad]

Based on what?

Comparing CDC stats of abortion, still births and mortality stats. The percentages are very close. Abortion rates are dropping due to improvement in birth control and planning. Soon miscarriages will be the majority.

Anecdotally, the three women closest to me (wife, mother and sister) have all had at least one miscarriage, and no abortions. Of the three, none would be characterised as 'sexually irresponsible' unless by the absolute strictest of religious criteria.

That is within the context I am explaining.

Stepping back from personal experience;
New Research Shows Most Human Pregnancies End in Miscarriage

As the study says there are variable such as location and economic class, etc. In the 1st world we have better systems from medical to support to even laws. In the 3rd like many in Africa many nations only make medical reasons legal whereas in the US and many nations in the West there is no medical requirements. So an induced abortion by the parent in one nation is classified as murder not abortion thus distorting stats.

But that's my very point. If 3 in 4 pregnancies end in either abortion or miscarriage, stating that 3 out of 4 pregnancies were irresponsible lumps everyone in together. Abortions due to rape or medical necessity, those of convenience, miscarriages...

There is still a quarter left which I believe covers those that could claim no fault or action as not all miscarriages are unrelated to personal action. Granted we drastic differ regarding responsibility of individual involved or at least in the case of many that are pro-choice. For example those that have had annon-medical induced abortion for financial reasons are irresponsible in my view. They fail to take into account their situation. I do not accept using birth control as a responsible response while the financial situation is the same.

But you stating that 3 out of 4 pregnancies is irresponsible means you're not merely being misleading, but are using erroneous maths. Unless you see miscarriages as irresponsible, but I'm assuming not.

No there is still a quarter as per the above. I could be wrong but those are the numbers I am seeing.

I get it was a throwaway line, but still felt the need to call it out.

It wasn't. It is my view based on stats I see in the video and reporting.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

My 3/4 was more of tongue in cheek.

By not thinking 5 minutes into the future or looking at one's bank account. Simply put if you are not prepared to take care of the child you should not be having sex.

Of course things are much more complicated than that. A person could have responsible sex--fully prepared to take care of a child or use adequate protection--but something unexpected happens like the other partner is not responsible and leaves or doesn't lube up the condom and it break or someone suddenly loses a job or a myriad other things that make having a child very difficult.

Responsibly aborting the child could be a facet of having responsible sex.

In other words, a person could have responsible sex but an irresponsible pregnancy. Or vice versa.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Nope. Miscarriages are a minority of abortions in the 1st world.

From what I gather, many miscarriages aren't even recognizable from a period, so many women never even know they are pregnant.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Comparing CDC stats of abortion, still births and mortality stats. The percentages are very close. Abortion rates are dropping due to improvement in birth control and planning. Soon miscarriages will be the majority.

I see nothing that indicates miscarriages are a minority of abortions in the first world in any meaningful way (miscarriage is extremely hard to measure...my wife has had one, perhaps two, she's not even sure).
Still, even if I allowed for 2/3 of abortions being induced, it still means fully a third of them are miscarriages. I don't like the terminology used in the OP, but using the '3/4 of pregnancies end in abortion' stat still means a whole lot of them are miscarriages. Accidents. Nothing to do with how responsible or otherwise the sex was.

That is within the context I am explaining.

Sorry, don't quite follow your meaning here.

As the study says there are variable such as location and economic class, etc. In the 1st world we have better systems from medical to support to even laws. In the 3rd like many in Africa many nations only make medical reasons legal whereas in the US and many nations in the West there is no medical requirements. So an induced abortion by the parent in one nation is classified as murder not abortion thus distorting stats.

Honestly, I have no interest in arguing the toss with you on induced abortions. I'm meet suggesting that your line about 3/4 of pregnancies being irresponsible is based on you including all abortions from the OPs definition...which means miscarriages.

a
There is still a quarter left which I believe covers those that could claim no fault or action as not all miscarriages are unrelated to personal action. Granted we drastic differ regarding responsibility of individual involved or at least in the case of many that are pro-choice. For example those that have had annon-medical induced abortion for financial reasons are irresponsible in my view. They fail to take into account their situation. I do not accept using birth control as a responsible response while the financial situation is the same.

For the sake of this thread, I'm not arguing that abortions are responsible. But the OP indicates 1/4 of pregnancies are viable, 3/4 are not. Of the 3/4, there are induced abortions, natural abortions (miscarriages) and stillbirths.

Doesn't equate to 3/4 of births being irresponsible, even if I allow for every abortion being irresponsible (not my view, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume that is the case)

And yes, as you said, some miscarriages have causative factors related to behaviour (eg. Drug use). But miscarriages are very common often for no clear reason at all.

 

[Shad]

I see nothing that indicates miscarriages are a minority of abortions in the first world in any meaningful way (miscarriage is extremely hard to measure...my wife has had one, perhaps two, she's not even sure).
Still, even if I allowed for 2/3 of abortions being induced, it still means fully a third of them are miscarriages. I don't like the terminology used in the OP, but using the '3/4 of pregnancies end in abortion' stat still means a whole lot of them are miscarriages. Accidents. Nothing to do with how responsible or otherwise the sex was.

It is hard to measure as reporting and requirements to report vary from place to place.

Sorry, don't quite follow your meaning here.

The answer to that question required me to explain the context more which I was doing in other answers I provided

Honestly, I have no interest in arguing the toss with you on induced abortions. I'm meet suggesting that your line about 3/4 of pregnancies being irresponsible is based on you including all abortions from the OPs definition...which means miscarriages.

You do you.

For the sake of this thread, I'm not arguing that abortions are responsible. But the OP indicates 1/4 of pregnancies are viable, 3/4 are not. Of the 3/4, there are induced abortions, natural abortions (miscarriages) and stillbirths.

I disagree as viable nor coming to term was part of the point at all but ending of a pregnancy. Induced abortions for non-medical reasons mean viability is not a factor thus the general statement does not say what you think it does.

Doesn't equate to 3/4 of births being irresponsible, even if I allow for every abortion being irresponsible (not my view, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume that is the case)

Abortions not births.

And yes, as you said, some miscarriages have causative factors related to behaviour (eg. Drug use). But miscarriages are very common often for no clear reason at all.

Our inability to find a reason does not mean there is no reason. More so investigations are not pressed unless required by law. So someone could have a miscarriage but we do not bother to find out why or report it.

 

[Shad]

Of course things are much more complicated than that. A person could have responsible sex--fully prepared to take care of a child or use adequate protection--but something unexpected happens like the other partner is not responsible

Gatekeeper.

and leaves or doesn't lube up the condom and it break or someone suddenly loses a job or a myriad other things that make having a child very difficult.

Ergo they accepted the risk whether they realized it or not. Condoms do not provide any guarantee nor warranty.

Again that still goes back to the parents if they work in an unstable job type.

Responsibly aborting the child could be a facet of having responsible sex.

Nope. All you are doing is overlooking any responsibility on the parents before sex then call abortion responsible. That doesn't fly with me.

In other words, a person could have responsible sex but an irresponsible pregnancy. Or vice versa.

Still goes back to being irresponsible as all your points can be planned for. People don't then make excuses.

 

[Shad]

From what I gather, many miscarriages aren't even recognizable from a period, so many women never even know they are pregnant.

Sure. However that make reporting hard as they do not know. So the unknown miscarriages are just a made up number based on small sampling then extrapolated.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Gatekeeper.

Keymaster?!

Ergo they accepted the risk whether they realized it or not. Condoms do not provide any guarantee nor warranty.

Again that still goes back to the parents if they work in an unstable job type.

Nope. All you are doing is overlooking any responsibility on the parents before sex then call abortion responsible. That doesn't fly with me.

Still goes back to being irresponsible as all your points can be planned for. People don't then make excuses.

Sure. I am willing to leave this as two different viewpoints on sex and abortion. I personally feel that sex without procreative desires can be responsible, abd sometimes abortion is also a responsible choice.

Afterall, sex is an inherent human desire that humans have a right to engage in with consent. This can be done responsibly, with the understanding that mistakes happen and difficult decisions may have to be made.

 

[Shad]

Keymaster?!

Well played.

Sure. I am willing to leave this as two different viewpoints on sex and abortion. I personally feel that sex without procreative desires can be responsible, abd sometimes abortion is also a responsible choice.

I take issues many have for the reasons why . I accept medical reasons. I just hold people to a higher standard of responsibility than most.

Afterall, sex is an inherent human desire that humans have a right to engage in with consent. This can be done responsibly, with the understanding that mistakes happen and difficult decisions may have to be made.

Sure. Again I just disagree that some of the non-medical reasons are justified. I see a lot as merely self-serving mulligans.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Sure. However that make reporting hard as they do not know. So the unknown miscarriages are just a made up number based on small sampling then extrapolated.

Miscarriages are one of the biggest problems with pregnancy. I would suspect any extrapolation from a sampling would be under with actual prevalence.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Well played.

Tis the season!

 

[Shad]

Miscarriages are one of the biggest problems with pregnancy. I would suspect any extrapolation from a sampling would be under with actual prevalence.

Sure. However that also means the cause numbers increases. So we still do not have the numbers of which causes can be linked with personal action thus responsibility and which are due to say problems at a genetic level that is unknown to the parents.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Sure. However that also means the cause numbers increases. So we still do not have the numbers of which causes can be linked with personal action thus responsibility and which are due to say problems at a genetic level that is unknown to the parents.

There appears to be some help in prevention of miscarriage by taking personal responsibility for your health, but this doesn't appear to be a guarantee: Is There a Way to Prevent Pregnancy Loss (Before 20 Weeks of Pregnancy)?

For the record, I do tend to agree with you about personal responsibility, when it comes to pregnancy and sex, I just tend to see things as more complex than simply stating abortions and miscarriages are likely from being personally irresponsible.

 

[Shad]

There appears to be some help in prevention of miscarriage by taking personal responsibility for your health, but this doesn't appear to be a guarantee: Is There a Way to Prevent Pregnancy Loss (Before 20 Weeks of Pregnancy)?

I think for many the greater problem is access followed by taking action provided the national health system is accessible and affordable. Health plans and preemptive care in general is lacking.

For the record, I do tend to agree with you about personal responsibility, when it comes to pregnancy and sex, I just tend to see things as more complex than simply stating abortions and miscarriages are likely from being personally irresponsible.

Sure.