Studies and intelligence

[Kerr]

Hi all.

I have a problem. I study astronomy at a university and I can't keep up. Last term I only finished one course, to mention one example. And I have repeatedly had issues with not keeping up. And it makes me feel like maybe I'm not that smart. There is just this thing... it's weird. I got Asberger. And when I got the diagnosis I was literally told by the one who did the test that she has never tested anyone with as high IQ as me before. Ever. But I can't get that together with my problems with my studies. Like... I just can't keep up. And I get constantly confused over obvious things. And I have a tendency to fail final exams, like the one tomorrow that I haven't read up on for some reason (to be fair that reason is school related as well, so it's not like I've been lazy).

The thing is, I got these disorders. Asberger and also ADHD. And a bunch of other issues I don't want to bore anyone with (anxiety for instance). These can have a rather huge impact on my ability to study. For example, I can't organize my time very good. So I guess what I'm trying to do is ask... how much difference does intelligence do? If you have problems with keeping up, is that a sign that you can't do it, or is it more complex then that? Is it possible my issues stem from the disorders rather then anything else?

And for the record, I also have managed to do well on exams. Like this one course I got like 3 points of 15 needed to pass on the final exam. But on the reexam I got 20 points instead.

Sorry if this is a weird question, it just sits in my head and I simply felt like I had to ask.

Take care,
Kerr.

 

[Jumi]

How much time do you spend studying?

 

[Kerr]

How much time do you spend studying?

Depends on the timespan. A few months ago... not much. The last time, a lot more time. At times it's most of the day to the degree where I forget to eat and drink. But it has mainly been lab raports that had to be written, hence why I haven't studied for the exam tomorrow (it's easier to retake an exam then redo a lab).

EDIT:

The thing that changes was that the doubled my ADHD medication, and suddenly my focus was as hard to control as a hyperactive dog rather then a raging bull .

 

[Quintessence]

Three suggestions:

1) Your university should have a number of resources to assist students with academic success, such as tutoring, supplemental instruction, academic coaching, and more. Find out what your university offers and take advantage of these resources. They are often free or low cost.

2) Your university will have an office that specifically assists students with disabilities. If you have a medically documented disability, you can request special accommodation. They may also have some other resources that can help you out. Student disability services are typically free.

3) Your university will also have student wellness offices, both for physical health and mental health. Visit them, see what they can do to help you out. You usually pay some sort of health fee to attend the university, which means many basic services will be free.

 

[Kerr]

Three suggestions:

1) Your university should have a number of resources to assist students with academic success, such as tutoring, supplemental instruction, academic coaching, and more. Find out what your university offers and take advantage of these resources. They are often free or low cost.

2) Your university will have an office that specifically assists students with disabilities. If you have a medically documented disability, you can request special accommodation. They may also have some other resources that can help you out. Student disability services are typically free.

3) Your university will also have student wellness offices, both for physical health and mental health. Visit them, see what they can do to help you out. You usually pay some sort of health fee to attend the university, which means many basic services will be free.

I have contact with all the services I know of. Like I always take the exams alone, because I get distracted too easily otherwise. And I have a mentor who helps me organize. Asking mainly to figure out if my problems is just due to my disabilities. That's what I tell myself, but my self confidence is just very low. On the other hand I can hardly speak to other people anymore because I have so much social problems, so maybe it just boils down to that I'm a mess at this point in my life. And before anyone suggests that I should take a break, I'm too stubborn to do that .

 

[Laika]

I tend to view IQ scores as a measure of abstract intelligence rather than more practical application of intellignece to get results, (I think my IQ comes out as around 120, so only just above average- make of that what you will).

I don't think you should think of this as an intelligence problem but that it has more to do with your a self-confidence; I imagine that as you have ADHD and Aspergers, the way you study is going to be different from how other people do it. Different does not mean wrong as long as you put work in. be open and flexible in how you approach it and find out what works for you. try to make it as effective and rewarding as possible. try not to think of it as an obsticle, but more as an oppurtunity to experiment with new ideas and ways of working.

Psychologically speaking, Exams are hateful as your being robbed of a certain degree of control such as not knowing what questions you will be asked; it can therefore bring out our self-confidence issues when we least need it. Anxiety is normal, but can sometime be counter-productive especially if we really want to get it over with as soon as possible. So your not simply being tested about what you know, but also your ability to handle pressure as well. Exams aren't really a test of intelligence, but of our ability to recall information and, in terms of essay writing, organise it. It's about making the information stick and finding the best way to remember it;

i) you enjoy it and make it fun
ii) it has practical applications, you use it regularly and therefore repeat it
iii) you discuss the ideas with other people as that tests not only your recall, but your ability to explain an idea to another person.
iv) making connections or assocations between ideas

Personality can also be a factor in how we study; as who we are as people affects how we think and feel, and how therefore we derive "significance" to the information we recieve and are learning about. Exams are a way to standarise the measure of behaviour, so they have a tendency to discriminate against people who are very creative and "eccenttric" and who "think outside the box". So, yeah, you probably won't get the highest marks in your class but you can still get very good grades. that is nothing to be ashamed of as long as you know that you couldn't have done any better. the only person your are competing against is yourself; mistakes happen and you can learn and recover from them. Sometimes the people who are most successful in real world situations aren't necessarily the best at sitting exams. The inverse is also true.

I did Social Sciences, so this may not exactly transfer over to Astronomy but I think it will help. I preferred spontaneity and improvising, whilst also having a vague long-term plan in mind. I tried to be 'efficient' and revised enough chapters, mainly the ones I liked most plus a few extra just in case. I did pass, but not with flying colours.
always get a good nights sleep before an exam, so you don't rush. you should walk into an exam feeling relaxed as that will help you recall the information. best of luck.

p.s. A freind of mine doing Politics graduated with a First. He has ADHD and was Dsylexic. we lost touch but from what I gather out of the nine people in my flat at university he is without question the most successful person of the lot of us. personally, I'd say his energy and enthusisam were an advantage.

 

[idea]

I am a teacher, and have had a few students whose medications make it very hard for them learn. The advice I can give you is to get to know your teacher, let them know what is going on - go to their office hours etc. so you are not just an unidentifiable face in the crowd to them. They will have options for you, such as letting you take tests in a testing center with unlimited time if that helps alleviate stress. Ask for extra credit projects, and above all, don't overload yourself when you sign up for classes. If you can only handle one or two classes a semester, then that is all you should sign up for. Use the summer sessions, and mini-mester options rather than signing up for more than you can handle. Research who teaches the class before you sign up for it - talk to other students to see who would be best for you to take classes from. Also, you might consider changing majors to something you enjoy rather than something that stresses you out.

 

[Kerr]

I am a teacher, and have had a few students whose medications make it very hard for them learn. The advice I can give you is to get to know your teacher, let them know what is going on - go to their office hours etc. so you are not just an unidentifiable face in the crowd to them. They will have options for you, such as letting you take tests in a testing center with unlimited time if that helps alleviate stress. Ask for extra credit projects, and above all, don't overload yourself when you sign up for classes. If you can only handle one or two classes a semester, then that is all you should sign up for. Use the summer sessions, and mini-mester options rather than signing up for more than you can handle. Research who teaches the class before you sign up for it - talk to other students to see who would be best for you to take classes from. Also, you might consider changing majors to something you enjoy rather than something that stresses you out.

In my case my medication is actually neccesary for my learning, since without them I can't focus. Are you btw thinking of American universities? If so, I was perhaps a bit vague. I study in Sweden, not America. Sorry if I was vague.

And I actually want to study this, even if it's stressful. Might just take more time for me to finish everything, but I'm too stubborn to give up .

 

[Kerr]

I tend to view IQ scores as a measure of abstract intelligence rather than more practical application of intellignece to get results, (I think my IQ comes out as around 120, so only just above average- make of that what you will).

I never bothered asking what my IQ was, tbh xD. And I hope I didn't sound arrogant or something before, it was just what I was told. Doubt it was anywhere near genius levels, just higher then average.

I don't think you should think of this as an intelligence problem but that it has more to do with your a self-confidence; I imagine that as you have ADHD and Aspergers, the way you study is going to be different from how other people do it. Different does not mean wrong as long as you put work in. be open and flexible in how you approach it and find out what works for you. try to make it as effective and rewarding as possible. try not to think of it as an obsticle, but more as an oppurtunity to experiment with new ideas and ways of working.

Yeah, I tend to learn differently. Tend to obsess over details, among other things. Like this one time we had this lab, and we where supposed to draw out points in a grid from some measurement data. I think I got one or two points and then noticed everyone else was done or almost done. Why? Because I just had to figure out the exact proportions of everything. Or as close to the exact proportions as possible. Everyone else was more like "it should be about here, maybe... close enough". Anothing example is that I really don't like approximations, due to being obsessed with details. So, in a lab when they told us to use an approximation, I actually took the time to investigate what would happen if you didn't do that approximation. Turned out the results where a little better, ut not by much. Still, that was completely useless and won't help my grade in any way, but I did it anyway. And I would again xD.

Psychologically speaking, Exams are hateful as your being robbed of a certain degree of control such as not knowing what questions you will be asked; it can therefore bring out our self-confidence issues when we least need it. Anxiety is normal, but can sometime be counter-productive especially if we really want to get it over with as soon as possible. So your not simply being tested about what you know, but also your ability to handle pressure as well. Exams aren't really a test of intelligence, but of our ability to recall information and, in terms of essay writing, organise it.

Not sure if that's the case for our exams. It's basically a lot of physics problems, which means we might need to memorize equations and such, but we also need to be able to figure out how to apply them to a problem. So it's not just memorizing stuff. To be honest, I kind of enjoy it. Even if I haven't read enough to pass and even if it's stressful I enjoy just sitting down and having a bunch of problems to figure out for a couple of hours.

It's about making the information stick and finding the best way to remember it;

i) you enjoy it and make it fun
ii) it has practical applications, you use it regularly and therefore repeat it
iii) you discuss the ideas with other people as that tests not only your recall, but your ability to explain an idea to another person.
iv) making connections or assocations between ideas

Personality can also be a factor in how we study; as who we are as people affects how we think and feel, and how therefore we derive "significance" to the information we recieve and are learning about. Exams are a way to standarise the measure of behaviour, so they have a tendency to discriminate against people who are very creative and "eccenttric" and who "think outside the box". So, yeah, you probably won't get the highest marks in your class but you can still get very good grades. that is nothing to be ashamed of as long as you know that you couldn't have done any better. the only person your are competing against is yourself; mistakes happen and you can learn and recover from them. Sometimes the people who are most successful in real world situations aren't necessarily the best at sitting exams. The inverse is also true.

I did Social Sciences, so this may not exactly transfer over to Astronomy but I think it will help. I preferred spontaneity and improvising, whilst also having a vague long-term plan in mind. I tried to be 'efficient' and revised enough chapters, mainly the ones I liked most plus a few extra just in case. I did pass, but not with flying colours.
always get a good nights sleep before an exam, so you don't rush. you should walk into an exam feeling relaxed as that will help you recall the information. best of luck.

Thanks. Will consider your points . I actually have a long term plan. It involves failing horribly tomorrow. That sounds negative, but it's not, because then I get the summer to read up. And I'm planning on writing a book on the subject. For myself, that is. Just to put everything in my own words. See if that helps. Not sure if I will manage to improve my grades, so far I'm not impressed with myself. Then again, I haven't been able to focus that well. I don't know. What I do know is that last time I had the summer to prepare it actually went well.

p.s. A freind of mine doing Politics graduated with a First. He has ADHD and was Dsylexic. we lost touch but from what I gather out of the nine people in my flat at university he is without question the most successful person of the lot of us. personally, I'd say his energy and enthusisam were an advantage.

I actually think ADHD can be a huge advantage and not just a disadvantage. Remember reading about that somewhere. Basically, in the right conditions someone with ADHD works extremely well. It's just that the way things tend to work in a society ISN'T that way. Think the author proposed to not just try and adjust the person, but also the environment around the person. Because if it's right the problems of ADHD can turn into an advantage. Guess that like everything in life, it's a double edged sword.

 

[Laika]

Yeah, I tend to learn differently. Tend to obsess over details, among other things. Like this one time we had this lab, and we where supposed to draw out points in a grid from some measurement data. I think I got one or two points and then noticed everyone else was done or almost done. Why? Because I just had to figure out the exact proportions of everything. Or as close to the exact proportions as possible. Everyone else was more like "it should be about here, maybe... close enough". Anothing example is that I really don't like approximations, due to being obsessed with details. So, in a lab when they told us to use an approximation, I actually took the time to investigate what would happen if you didn't do that approximation. Turned out the results where a little better, ut not by much. Still, that was completely useless and won't help my grade in any way, but I did it anyway. And I would again xD.

As I recall, Issac Newton was like that. depending on the setting, being obsessive can be a plus and wanting to know the deatil can get you further.

To be honest, I kind of enjoy it. Even if I haven't read enough to pass and even if it's stressful I enjoy just sitting down and having a bunch of problems to figure out for a couple of hours.

I think you deserve to pass an exam simply for the ability to enjoy it.

I actually have a long term plan. It involves failing horribly tomorrow.

Sounds good. I like your honesty

I write stuff out on paper to try to figure out all the connections and that help me remember abstract ideas and organising them in a logical way. I rely on imagination and visualising the concepts so by connecting the 'dots' and figuring out what those things would look like, I can remember it better. My room is a mess and my waste paper bin is ussaully overflowing from these scribbles, but it's what works.

I actually think ADHD can be a huge advantage and not just a disadvantage. Remember reading about that somewhere. Basically, in the right conditions someone with ADHD works extremely well. It's just that the way things tend to work in a society ISN'T that way. Think the author proposed to not just try and adjust the person, but also the environment around the person. Because if it's right the problems of ADHD can turn into an advantage. Guess that like everything in life, it's a double edged sword.

that is probably the best advice anyone could give you. best of luck.

 

[Kerr]

As I recall, Issac Newton was like that. depending on the setting, being obsessive can be a plus and wanting to know the deatil can get you further.



I think you deserve to pass an exam simply for the ability to enjoy it.

Nah, I wan't to earn it.

Just hope the exam yesterday wont be like the last one. I explicitly didn't want to pass then, because if I would I would pass only just and I want a better margine then that. Wouldn't have been able to get that far if the teacher hadn't come buy and gave me a "cheat paper". There is this book called Physics Handbook we are allowed to have on the exams that contains formulas and such things. The teacher came by with some copies of stuff from that, which meant I could reason myself to a lot of things I forgot how to solve. So I answered so many points I would get at most 1 point under passing the test. Only missed half a point... but I also got 1.5 bonus points from elsewhere, so I passed. That was a bit annoying xD.

Sounds good. I like your honesty

I write stuff out on paper to try to figure out all the connections and that help me remember abstract ideas and organising them in a logical way. I rely on imagination and visualising the concepts so by connecting the 'dots' and figuring out what those things would look like, I can remember it better. My room is a mess and my waste paper bin is ussaully overflowing from these scribbles, but it's what works.

I am convinced the path to success is a path of constant failures. How else would you learn ? Sometimes I even do things the hard way just to see why the easy way is better. Only problem is, it's bad for your self esteem, lol.

I tend to learn best by doing. Like instead of watching someone derive something, I derive it myself to see what happens. Or rewriting things in my own words.

that is probably the best advice anyone could give you. best of luck.

It wasn't an advice, it was a paper by some random guy who worked with this kind of things I stumbled upon on the Internet. If I remember correctly, the "problem" with someone who has ADHD is that they have too few dopamine receptors (or the receptors where less sensitive for dopamine or something). Dopamine happens to be what tells the brain that something is interesting and worth paying attention to. This essentially means that while the world thinks the problem is that the person with ADHD cannot focus, the brain of the person with ADHD thinks the problem is that the world just isn't that interesting. But... if you put someone with ADHD in a environment with the right kind of stimuli, the problem is reduced and can even become the persons advantage because the brain suddenly becomes more interesting. That's likely what you saw in that friend of yours that had so much enthusiasm and energy. He had the right stimuli.

I actually think this is a problem with society in general. It expects people to be... passive might be the wrong word, but it's the best one I can come up with. Like in most schools I have been to they expect you to sit in rows, listen to the teachers and absorb information. Sometimes for several hours (in least at my university where some lessons can be almost 3 hours long not counting the breaks). I'm not sure that's the best way to teach. I mean, even with my meds I loose focus towards the end, and I doubt I'm the only one. Suspect even people without my problems have issues when it comes to that. It's just not stimulating. Don't know what the alternative would be, though. I study astronomy, and in it we study physics and a lot of subjects like that. They are very theory intense, not just in information but also mathematically. There are so many mathematical concepts you need to understand, lol. Anyway, point being, I have no idea how to improve on the problem. I just think this is a suboptimal way to learn.