String Theory Co-Founder: Sub-Atomic Particles Are Evidence the Universe Was Created

[Etritonakin]

As with all these 'God created...' arguments, I will ask the standard question.

Who created this god??

The God of the bible is described as being the one by whom all things consist -and it says he formed the worlds and that which appears to us from that which does not appear -making what we see from that which we do not see. The book of Job and others indicate a construction process -though by fiat -direct interface.

This is consistent with what is said about rules being applied to that which existed previously to create our universe -and even what we call the Big Bang is a process of applying those rules to that which existed previously to form the elements, etc., which once did not exist.

He calls himself "I AM", "I AM THAT AM", etc., which can be read "I am that which is".

He also says "now I will lift up myself -now I will be exalted" -and did so by creating things under him, as it were. He would be the mind of all things -and all things his body and environment -over which he has all power.

Taking many verses together does indicate that God made all things of himself -of that which is -which is him.

It is also said that of the increase of the government of God and Christ there will be no end -which -working backward -leaves the question of the least complex state of God -of all things.

We see now that both "evolution" and "creativity" exist and happen. They are essentially parts of the same.

When considering the origin -or least complex state -of all things, we can begin with the fact that something did happen -and also that what exists now is a rearrangement of that which has "always" existed. It is impossible that there was once absolutely nothing -and the least complex state of that which is must have been complex enough to become all of what is.

That which now is includes many creative personalities with bodies within an environment -so that which was could very well have been one overall creative personality/body/environment.

I'm not saying this is the case, but ......In evolutionary terms... What if the first thing which necessarily "evolved" was "God"? I do not mean that he would have evolved from the elements, but that he could have been the self-evolution and self-creation of the most elemental and basic things or interactions -becoming more aware and self-aware as there was more complexity of which to be aware.

It is said that we were made in the image and likeness of God. Does that mean that God was once essentially a baby -more simple than even our own beginning? We begin very complex -and we are aware and self-aware even before we fully realize what that means and make more of ourselves and our environment. Was God the most simple set of self-same rules/interactions which self-created and self-evolved by compounding and becoming more complex?

I don't know -but it seems logical -and it actually does not go against any scripture I have read.

No matter what happened, there was a least complex state of everything -or at least a least complex state possible. As I see it, that which now exists requires that a self-aware creative intelligence existed prior to it and is responsible for it -due to its nature.

If God is all things, God has also changed his overall state by will -and his will has essentially become more complex -but what is the origin or original state of his will?
He is able to say "I AM" now -and it means something different with each change -so what did that originally mean? If God was originally alone -had not yet applied rules to create separate personalities -then he would have first said "I AM" to himself.

At what point is "I AM" irreducible. What is the most simple state of that statement?

(I am trying to find a particular scripture which seemed to indicate that "the Word" who became Christ was essentially the first self-replication of God. Christ is also called "the firstborn of many brethren". It is written that "in the beginning" was the Word -and the Word was with God, and the Word was God -but "in the beginning" can apply to the beginning of any certain thing -not necessarily the very beginning of all things. Whether or not that is true, it is said that we are essentially self-replications of God.)

 

[Altfish]

The God of the bible is described as being the one by who all things consist -and it says he formed the worlds and that which appears to us from that which does not appear -making what we see from that which we do not see. The book of Job and others indicate a construction process -though by fiat -direct interface.

This is consistent with what is said about rules being applied to that which existed previously to create our universe -and even what we call the Big Bang is a process of applying those rules to that which existed previously to form the elements, etc., which once did not exist.

He calls himself "I AM", "I AM THAT AM", etc., which can be read "I am that which is".

He also says "now I will lift up myself -now I will be exalted" -and did so by creating things under him, as it were. He would be the mind of all things -and all things his body and environment -over which he has all power.

Taking many verses together does indicate that God made all things of himself -of that which is -which is him.

It is also said that of the increase of the government of God and Christ there will be no end -which -working backward -leaves the question of the least complex state of God -of all things.

We see now that both "evolution" and "creativity" exist and happen. They are essentially parts of the same.

When considering the origin -or least complex state -of all things, we can begin with the fact that something did happen -and also that what exists now is a rearrangement of that which has "always" existed. It is impossible that there was once absolutely nothing -and the least complex state of that which is must have been complex enough to become all of what is.

That which now is includes many creative personalities with bodies within an environment -so that which was could very well have been one overall creative personality/body/environment.

I'm not saying this is the case, but ......In evolutionary terms... What if the first thing which necessarily "evolved" was "God"? I do not mean that he would have evolved from the elements, but that he could have been the self-evolution and self-creation of the most elemental and basic things or interactions -becoming more aware and self-aware as there was more complexity of which to be aware.

It is said that we were made in the image and likeness of God. Does that mean that God was once essentially a baby -more simple than even our own beginning? We begin very complex -and we are aware and self-aware even before we fully realize what that means and make more of ourselves and our environment. Was God the most simple set of self-same rules/interactions which self-created and self-evolved by compounding and becoming more complex?

I don't know -but it seems logical -and it actually does not go against any scripture I have read.

No matter what happened, there was a least complex state of everything -or at least a least complex state possible. As I see it, that which now exists requires that a self-aware creative intelligence existed prior to it and is responsible for it -due to its nature.

If God is all things, God has also changed his overall state by will -and his will has essentially become more complex -but what is the origin or original state of his will?
He is able to say "I AM" now -and it means something different with each change -so what did that originally mean? If God was originally alone -had not yet applied rules to create separate personalities -then he would have first said "I AM" to himself.

But who created god????

 

[Ouroboros]

As with all these 'God created...' arguments, I will ask the standard question.

Who created this god??

To expand on your question, asking another question, but somewhat intricate:

If our existence (and rather complicated existence it is) is dependent on a designed and well organized world to live in, then from where did the perfect laws and the designed world in which God exists come from?

 

[idav]

But who created god????

Not to speak for the poster but I thought the answer was god evolved itself, from what I got from it.

 

[idav]

To expand on your question, asking another question, but somewhat intricate:

If our existence (and rather complicated existence it is) is dependent on a designed and well organized world to live in, then from where did the perfect laws and the designed world in which God exists come from?

Perfection and organization need not come from perfection and organization.

 

[Altfish]

To expand on your question, asking another question, but somewhat intricate:

If our existence (and rather complicated existence it is) is dependent on a designed and well organized world to live in, then from where did the perfect laws and the designed world in which God exists come from?

Firstly, there is no god.
Secondly life has evolved to suit the "a designed and well organised world......with perfect laws...etc"; if the laws, etc of this earth were different then the life on this planet would be totally different to what we currently have.
You assert that we have a well organised world...really! Tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, droughts, famines, etc. need I go on. Not very perfect, is it? Less that 25% is suitable for human habitation. Pretty bad design?

 

[Altfish]

Not to speak for the poster but I thought the answer was god evolved itself, from what I got from it.

Evolved from what?
I think evolution is a great answer to the diversity of life on earth, but gods evolved that way too!
Abiogenesis makes imminent sense for how life started, are you saying that is how gods started?

 

[idav]

Abiogenesis makes imminent sense for how life started, are you saying that is how gods started?

If god were an intelligent energy, I think the energy would come first and possibly evolve and emerge to intelligence. That makes sense to me and would sort of point to how life was able to just emerge from a non-intelligent planet of molten lava.

 

[Etritonakin]

But who created god????

Essentially.... it would seem God created God from what God always was -but not necessarily AS God is now.

God says he changes not -but he does rearrange.

Creation is essentially rearranging that which already is -but we associate it with a very complex mind capable of very complex creation.
Yet -that has to be reducible. We begin with the capacity to become creative -but our capability increases and becomes more complex.
We begin within a complex environment -but the original could have made the environment more complex while becoming more complex -being both that which could act and react.

Element-based evolution is a creator -but not -of itself -one which is self-aware.
However, element-based evolution is already very complex -and could only happen after the formation of the elements.
Creation, design and evolution are all parts of the same whole and apply to each other -the only question is which is responsible for what at which point.
Designs evolve, evolution creates designs, creators have evolved, evolution is of a particular design, etc., etc.

God says he IS the beginning. Perhaps he is (was-has always been) the convergence of design/creativity/evolution which became more complex and distinct/separate.

For a designer (self-aware or otherwise) to be capable of complex designs, that designer must already be of a complex design.
Something must have designated that complex design -but must have originally been of the most simple complexity.

The most simple state of all things must have been somewhat complex and interactive, and -given what now is -would be the most simple design which could allow for creativity/evolution/awareness/self-awareness, etc.

More correctly, the most simple state would BE the most simple design/interaction/creativity/evolution/awareness/self-awareness, etc. -all in one -the least complex singularity possible.

I do not believe the big bang to be the very beginning of all things -because it applied extremely complex rules and designated very specific and complex things -which were essentially predetermined.

The least complex state would be the basis of all logic -and determine what was inevitable and possible -but it seems that a more complex state -in the form of a self-aware creative intelligence -was necessary to determine/decree the specific parameters of the formation of our universe and that which followed.

PLEASE NOT EDITS OF MY POSTS -WILL TRY TO RESPOND TO YOUR POSTS LATER

(Again -don't claim to know -just wondering)

(As for the "personal" God -it is a matter of "everything" making itself known to us personally -on our level given our present state -in order to fast-track our becoming more and understanding the basics of the mind of "everything" in a short amount of time. I will try to address how that relates to why "everything" would be concerned with what foods we ate at various times -why "everything" would have us sacrifice animals for a time and then not -why "everything" would give us over to warfare, why "everything" would bother eventually dealing with the world's military forces directly rather than simply willing them out of existence, etc... It actually makes sense -but it is difficult to see the big picture and how it is necessary for the intended end result.)

 

[idav]

Essentially.... it would seem God created God from what God always was -but not necessarily AS God is now.

God says he changes not -but he does rearrange.

Creation is essentially rearranging that which already is -but we associate it with a very complex mind capable of very complex creation.
Yet -that has to be reducible. We begin with the capacity to become creative -but our capability increases and becomes more complex.
We begin within a complex environment -but the original could have made the environment more complex while becoming more complex -being both that which could act and react.

Element-based evolution is a creator -but not -of itself -one which is self-aware.
However, element-based evolution is already very complex -and could only happen after the formation of the elements.
Creation, design and evolution are all parts of the same whole and apply to each other -the only question is which is responsible for what at which point.
Designs evolve, evolution creates designs, creators have evolved, evolution is of a particular design, etc., etc.

God says he IS the beginning. Perhaps he is (was-has always been) the convergence of design/creativity/evolution which became more complex and distinct/separate.

For a designer (self-aware or otherwise) to be capable of complex designs, that designer must already be of a complex design.
Something must have designated that complex design -but must have originally been of the most simple complexity.

The most simple state of all things must have been somewhat complex and interactive, and -given what now is -would be the most simple design which could allow for creativity/evolution/awareness/self-awareness, etc.

More correctly, the most simple state would BE the most simple design/interaction/creativity/evolution/awareness/self-awareness, etc. -all in one -the least complex singularity possible.

This is well stated, thanks for sharing.

 

[Ouroboros]

Firstly, there is no god.
Secondly life has evolved to suit the "a designed and well organised world......with perfect laws...etc"; if the laws, etc of this earth were different then the life on this planet would be totally different to what we currently have.
You assert that we have a well organised world...really! Tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, droughts, famines, etc. need I go on. Not very perfect, is it? Less that 25% is suitable for human habitation. Pretty bad design?

You missed a keyword: "if". It's a conditional statement.

 

[Ouroboros]

Perfection and organization need not come from perfection and organization.

Probably true.

Which means that God would not be perfect and organized.

My view is that chaos and order are both eternal.

 

[Altfish]

Essentially.... it would seem God created God from what God always was -but not necessarily AS God is now.

You don't do brevity, do you?

Not a very satisfactory explanation, "God created God from what God always was".
It just leads to more questions, "What was it that God always was?"

 

[Altfish]

You missed a keyword: "if". It's a conditional statement.

You missed most of my reply.

 

[Etritonakin]

You don't do brevity, do you?

Not a very satisfactory explanation, "God created God from what God always was".
It just leads to more questions, "What was it that God always was?"

You want everything in one statement?

Stuff happened?

"What was it that God always was?"

Everything in its most simple state, perhaps? I wasn't there. Scientists seem to think they are getting down to irreducible things -so they would likely create the "words" for it before I could -elementary particles not composed of other things, etc....

 

[Altfish]

You want everything in one statement?

Stuff happened?

"What was it that God always was?"

Everything in its most simple state, perhaps? I wasn't there.

Like I said not a very satisfactory explanation. I much prefer, "I don't know"

 

[Etritonakin]

Like I said not a very satisfactory explanation. I much prefer, "I don't know"

Then whachadoin' here? Tryin' not to know stuff?

I think most of my time would be better spent just having fun than wondering what's beyond the presently knowable.

see edit above

 

[Ouroboros]

You missed most of my reply.

And you missed the intention with mine.

 

[Acim]

As with all these 'God created...' arguments, I will ask the standard question.

Who created this god??

Like asking who is the ancestor of the first ancestor?

 

[Acim]

You don't do brevity, do you?

Not a very satisfactory explanation, "God created God from what God always was".
It just leads to more questions, "What was it that God always was?"

Your assumption(s) are that Creation is/can be past tense.

The physical universe hasn't stopped being 'created.' (more like mis-created)

Creation is Reality. More Creation is not measurable because it is eternal. What God creates is not not God, and is not a finished work, past tense being incomprehensible in eternity. Creation is not linear.

All of this is discernible here, now unless one chooses to look to physical existence (thus not truly seeing) for so called evidence, which relies fundamentally on faith (in nothingness).