Something interesting I found on the Baha'i Faith

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm still concerned about a few things myself:

1) The Bab was trying to reinterpret Shia Islam in Iran through the process of proclaiming divine revelation (a no no especially considering Muhammad is the "seal of the prophets") which ultimately lead to his execution.

2)The Bab was at least according to my research considered a messianic figure foretold by previous scriptures, something akin to what was stated regarding Muhammad.

3) Of all the criticisms of the Baha'i one cannot register as a Baha'i if you are involved in a same sex marriage.

4) Baha'i's consider homosexuality as a "handicap" that can be overcome.

5) Women are ineligible to serve in the "House of Justice"

6) "According to these critics, `Abdu’l-Bahā said: "Although women and men share the same capacities and abilities, there is definitely no doubt that men are superior and stronger. Even in animals like pigeons, sparrows, peacocks, and other [birds] this advantage is visible,"[19][20] `Abdu’l-Bahā made the comments in light of being questioned as to why God didn't send any female prophets." (I'm not privy to Wikipedia but I found this part interesting)....

Too many questions.

As they are your concern and not you bloggers, I will offer some thoughts.

1) The Bab gave a new Message from God, it was fulfillment. It is the same as Muhammad. He fulfilled biblical expectations mainly symbolically. That fulfillment is the explanation. A Messenger has never come as the people expected, why should it change in this day? The reinterpretarion is required by us.

2) The Bab was the Gate to Baha'u'llah. He can be seen as Elijah who always comes first. In this age, the one that prepared the way for the 'Day of God', a day forerold in all scriptures and expected by by all faiths, was in himself a Messenger from God and given a book like Muhammad.

Muhammad was the seal of prophecy, the Bab was the Gate to the fulfillment of all the promises given by God.

3) The law of Baha'u'llah states that legal marriage is between a man and women. It is only in that bond that the sex impulse can be used. If you are not a Baha'i, one does not have to consider it applicable to them. If one is a Baha'i, then it has to be considered.

4) Ties in with the above. We have power of mind to control our actions. There is much guidance one can use about our struggles with who we are in this material world. That is, if one really wants to foster development of their spiritual selves.

5) & 6) Correct, Women are exempted from service on the Universal House of Justice. It is a bounty to enable them to serve in a greater capacity. Equality does not mean sameness. As a man, I can not give birth, nor feed the baby, but I can support and help.

The material mentality that encompasses the earth, has taken us far from our spiritual health. The Message of Baha'u'llah is aimed at restoring that health. The Message is an elixer given by God, it is the balance we need to find.

Regards Tony

 

[Sen McGlinn]

I can speak to the first of those many "critiques:" the claim that the scriptures are locked up. They are on the contrary widely published and scanned and reproduced on the internet, in such huge volumes that no one person could read them all. Valuable originals of course are carefully looked after: we have some in the Leiden University Library, and Oxford and Cambridge and St. Petersburg have more. You need to have a good reason, the necessary skills and white gloves if you want to see them. That's what you'd expect. But in the digital age the restrictions on physical access and the scattering across many repositories are not a problem.The H-Bahai libary and the Balyuzi library are scanning the manuscripts and early print books, and putting them online.

 

[Neutral Name]

So all you can do is read everything you can from all sides and decide which makes more sense to you. It's a polarized topic with lots of mud-slinging all around. "you're the deceptive one" is tossed about as much as "I'm right and you're wrong.'

You will come to a conclusion, it will be neither right nor wrong, but it will be yours, not someone else's.

It sounds like every other religion to me. Why does religion have so much negativity?

 

[Neutral Name]

Why. The right answers are readily available and just as easy sourced, as was this view aimed at deception.

Regards Tony

There is good and bad in all religions. Bahai is no exception. Criticism of the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

I see the good side and like it except, as with many, dislike for homosexuals but there is a bad side too.

 

[Neutral Name]

I can speak to the first of those many "critiques:" the claim that the scriptures are locked up. They are on the contrary widely published and scanned and reproduced on the internet, in such huge volumes that no one person could read them all. Valuable originals of course are carefully looked after: we have some in the Leiden University Library, and Oxford and Cambridge and St. Petersburg have more. You need to have a good reason, the necessary skills and white gloves if you want to see them. That's what you'd expect. But in the digital age the restrictions on physical access and the scattering across many repositories are not a problem.The H-Bahai libary and the Balyuzi library are scanning the manuscripts and early print books, and putting them online.

Pretty much like any other religions. The originals aren't just kept out for everyone to fondle.

 

[CG Didymus]

5) & 6) Correct, Women are exempted from service on the Universal House of Justice. It is a bounty to enable them to serve in a greater capacity. Equality does not mean sameness. As a man, I can not give birth, nor feed the baby, but I can support and help.

In the U.S. women are making a huge impact in Congress, in the Senate, in the courts and someday soon as the President. If they can serve on local and national spiritual assemblies and other top positions, why not the UHofJ? It's hard to understand how it's a "bounty". How many men are in the UHof J anyway? Is it nine? If so, then it wouldn't be that many women that are affected. All the rest could serve in all those other "greater" capacities.

 

[Neutral Name]

5) & 6) Correct, Women are exempted from service on the Universal House of Justice. It is a bounty to enable them to serve in a greater capacity. Equality does not mean sameness. As a man, I can not give birth, nor feed the baby, but I can support and help.

What a great explanation! God loves women the same as men even if our bodies are different. God is not female or male. God is non-binary. God doesn't need a penis or vagina. If God wants to create something, she just thinks it into being. So, why can't women be of service on the Universal House of Justice? That sounds very discriminatory to me. Ok, so women are exempted from service. What if they choose to serve? Can they? I served in the military for quite a few years and loved that I didn't see discrimination toward me or anyone else.

 

[Neutral Name]

In the U.S. women are making a huge impact in Congress, in the Senate, in the courts and someday soon as the President. If they can serve on local and national spiritual assemblies and other top positions, why not the UHofJ? It's hard to understand how it's a "bounty". How many men are in the UHof J anyway? Is it nine? If so, then it wouldn't be that many women that are affected. All the rest could serve in all those other "greater" capacities.

I'm surprised that we haven't had a woman president yet. England has had two women Prime Ministers. We're late.

 

[Neutral Name]

I'm curious after doing some research, but also found and interesting opinion (perhaps made by some blogger) which detailed some criticism regarding the Baha'i faith (See Below)

1. The Independent Investigation of Truth, Unfettered by Superstition or Tradition(yet somehow, most Baha’i scripture is locked up in Israel and no one can investigate Baha’ism in a correct manner)
2. The Oneness of Humanity(But the founder would insult his deniers and refer to them as donkeys pigs and ********: Baha’i Belief and Courtesy: Baha’u’llah Refers to Those that Deny Him as Animals, Pigs, Donkeys, Dogs, and ********)
3. Religion Must be the Source of Unity and Fellowship(Baha’u’llah’s family were in constant conflict and shunned each other)
4. Religion Must be in Conformity with Science and Reason(Ironically, the founders made numerous errors when speaking about scientific matters: See a list of blunders here)
5. The Removal of All Prejudice(yet non-Baha’i are considered as worthless pebbles: “My friends are the pearls of [this] order and all others are earthly pebbles . . . a single one of these (Baha’is) is more precious than a million others (non-Baha’is),” (Baha’u’llah))
6. The Equalization of the Means of Livelihood for All Humanity (except for thieves and those that are labelled as covenant breakers for disagreeing with Baha’i doctrines and are kicked out of the community)
7. Establishment of a Universal House of Justice and Supreme Tribunal (unfortunately, the house of justice turned out to be a dictatorship who handles all disagreement with an ironfist)
8. Universal Compulsory Education (the blunders of the leaders in simple scientific matters show that this is mere slogan)
9. A Universal Auxiliary Language (but they failed to introduce such a language)
10. The Equality of Men and Women (but Baha’is discriminate against the sexes in their laws)

11- Establishment of Universal Peace (this one is probably the biggest failure)

12- The World of Humanity is in the Need of the Breath of the Holy Spirit.

13-Baha'i claim on gender equality with a huge BUT:

The Universal House of Justice wrote on 8 January 1981:

Abdu'l-Bahá asserts: 'In this divine age the bounties of God have encompassed the world of women. Equality of men and women, except in some negligible instances, has been fully and categorically announced. Distinctions have bee utterly removed.' That men and women differ from one another in certain characteristics and functions is an inescapable fact of nature; the important thing is that He regards such inequalities as remain between the sexes as being 'negligible'.

One of these negligible instances is the exclusion of women from the Universal House of Justice—the infallible top-governing body of the Baha'i Faith.

14- The allowance of Bigamy:

"You asked about polygamy. According to the text (nass) of the Divine Book the right of having two wives is lawful and legal (ja'iz). This was never (abadan) prohibited, but it is legitimate and allowed (halal wa mubah). You should therefore not be unhappy, but take justice into your consideration so that you may be as just as possible. What has been said was that since justice is very difficult [to achieve], therefore tranquillity [calls for] one wife. But in your case, you should not be unhappy".

15- Baha'i allowing the desecration of "covenant breakers" grave

"ANNOUNCE BAHA'I WORLD REMOVAL FROM IMMEDIATE PRECINCTS HOLY SHRINE BAHA'U'LLAH REMAINS MIRZA DIYA'U'LLAH YOUNGER BROTHER MIRZA MUHAMMAD ALI HIS ACCOMPLICE IN EFFORTS SUBVERT FOUNDATIONS COVENANT GOD SOON AFTER ASCENSION BAHA'U'LLAH. THIS FINAL STEP IN PROCESS PURIFICATION SACRED INTERNATIONAL ENDOWMENTS FAITH IN BAHJI FROM PAST CONTAMINATION WAS PROVIDENTIALLY UNDERTAKEN"

Anyone Baha'i care to debate the opposite of this?

Thanks for bringing it up. Another religion for me to analyze.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is good and bad in all religions. Bahai is no exception. Criticism of the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

I see the good side and like it except, as with many, dislike for homosexuals but there is a bad side too.

I see all good is from God, thus it is our choice to determine if the source is from God.

Thus I have found It is God's law and not a dislike of any Baha'i. It is a law given for our own spiritual well being. It is ones free choice if they wish to follow the law.

Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

 

[Neutral Name]

I see all good is from God, thus it is our choice to determine if the source is from God.

Thus I have found It is God's law and not a dislike of any Baha'i. It is a law given for our own spiritual well being. It is ones free choice if they wish to follow the law.

Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

In other words, if you want to be a Bahai woman, do what you're told or go away from Bahai.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is good and bad in all religions. Bahai is no exception. Criticism of the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

I see the good side and like it except, as with many, dislike for homosexuals but there is a bad side too.

That is because God's Message is given to man, whoto date struggles to find their spiritual selves.

The highest standard we can aim for, is the Mesenger given by God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It sounds like every other religion to me. Why does religion have so much negativity?

I would ask who's negativity is it?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What a great explanation! God loves women the same as men even if our bodies are different. God is not female or male. God is non-binary. God doesn't need a penis or vagina. If God wants to create something, she just thinks it into being. So, why can't women be of service on the Universal House of Justice? That sounds very discriminatory to me. Ok, so women are exempted from service. What if they choose to serve? Can they? I served in the military for quite a few years and loved that I didn't see discrimination toward me or anyone else.

Abdul'baha has said the greatest service to humanity is serving each other at community level and all efforts towards this goal. Women are in the Bahai writings the peacemakers and the nurtures of virtues and world wide are commited to this given bounty.

This link explains it further.

Bahá'í Faith and gender equality - Wikipedia

A 5 year term on the Universal House of Justice would greatly hinder the ability to partake of that community service. My wife who was a Baha'i befor me, has never had an issue with this law and does not see it as discrimination in any way shape or form.

Regards Tony

 

[Neutral Name]

I would ask who's negativity is it?

Regards Tony

It's pretty negative to me to hold women back and tell them that they can't participate. I feel very negative when men tell me that I can't.

 

[Neutral Name]

That is because God's Message is given to man, whoto date struggles to find their spiritual selves.

The highest standard we can aim for, is the Mesenger given by God.

Regards Tony

Do you get that God is not a man? God doesn't have a penis.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm surprised that we haven't had a woman president yet. England has had two women Prime Ministers. We're late.

An important difference in the Baha'i Faith is there are no leaders. There are roles that dedicated, deepened and virtuous Baha'is can be appointed to, to serve as an elected body, or as individuals. There are two arms in the Baha'i Faith, the Elected and the Learned. No individual capacity, has power over the elected bodies.

Apart from the Universal House of Justice, women are free to serve in all these capacities.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In other words, if you want to be a Bahai woman, do what you're told or go away from Bahai.

That to me does not portray the teachings given by Baha'u'llah on the equality of men or women, at any level of my understanding.

If one chooses to be a Baha'i, they also freely choose the given laws. If one wants to be a Baha'i, man or women, they must be prepared to drastically change ones way of life and frame of reference. Jesus Christ called this as 'being born again'.

"Let your vision become world embracing".

"Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.."

"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens".

Regards Tony

 

[Neutral Name]

That to me does not portray the teachings given by Baha'u'llah on the equality of men or women, at any level of my understanding.

If one chooses to be a Baha'i, they also freely choose the given laws. If one wants to be a Baha'i, man or women, they must be prepared to drastically change ones way of life and frame of reference. Jesus Christ called this as 'being born again'.

"Let your vision become world embracing".

"Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.."

"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens".

Regards Tony

So, to be a Bahai, women must give up equality because that is the will of Jesus? Jesus had many women he treated equally. I guess I would never be a Bahai believer.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's pretty negative to me to hold women back and tell them that they can't participate. I feel very negative when men tell me that I can't.

There can be no ambition to serve on the Universal House of Justice. Why would would it thus be an issue?

All can join tomorrow, one will never be held back in serving our fellow man, but I can tell you now, they can forget the life they know and then be prepared to give all they have to all humanity. If one does not, one is not born again, but becomes a hypocrite.

I see we are always striving not to be the hypocrites.

Regards Tony