I always like your posts DreGod, though I don't share his more atheistic viewpoints. I also agree that I don't usually care much for Paul.(I also think he said wonderful things about love.) And also think that what Jesus taught and preached was often at odds with Paul. I also think Paul, not Jesus, was the true founder of Christianity, as we know it at least. (Or perhaps we need to go further forward in time to some other historical figure.)
It's interesting to me that Christians take great stock in quoting scripture to prove their points. I have to remind someone that those verses only "work" when one has faith that those verses are true, in the sense that they read them.
I think there is much *wisdom* in the Bible (and the Quaran and the various lesser known great works of the Hindus, Buddhists, and the great oral traditions, and in literature and art, etc. etc.) *but* it is quite another thing to go and quote out of those and say, "well it says this here and therefore it must be true". I know *you* believe it to be true, but that is because you have made a leap of faith to take those writings and to be true. But others have read those same things and don't think they are true, at least not in that literal way.
One thing you could know definitely about from experience is the power of love. This would be a much better world (in this world) if everyone loved and cared for each other and cared for the world. I think we can know this based on our own experience with love vs hate or indifference. I don't need Paul to tell me that but he *describes* it and clarifies it in a beautiful and succinct way, and that is wisdom.
But that doesn't allow me to say "ok Paul, whatever else you say-- I like that too, I buy that completely and worship it".
I have great difficulty wiht any god figure that seems to have such rage against his own creation, that he would consign it to hell for all eternity, based on just not believing in him. I think this is inferior to human ethics.
I, for instance, know there are many people, most people, that do not know me at all, and one or two that really dislike me, maybe hate me. But I would personally not consign them to hell even for 1 minute. As I said, DreGod and I don't share the same views on a deity, and yet I can repect these views. But supposedly god does not. This makes me as a single wimpy individual way over where this god is in relationship to "his" "children". I don't even know DreGod. This god supposedly knows us initimately. I wouldn't cast DreGod (or anyone else) in hell for a nanosecond for disagreeing with me. We know that most civilized Western countries do not condone torture for evne the most heinous individuals. That makes humans superior morally to this sort of god. This is my view, as coming from outside the more conservative elements of the Christian church.
You can quote scriptures at me all day, but it would never convince me. Quoting scripture, I believe as argument is a tautology. It is true because it says here it is true. I am happy you have your own beliefs that nourish you. They just do not nourish me. In fact, I dislike them (but if I *could* throw you all in hell for that I would not, even for the merest second).
--des
DreGod07 said:
I rather like the Ebonites. I too do not except Paul. Although mine is not from a religioous position due to me being an Athiest.
I still hold to the opinion that Yeshua was a Jew and died a jew. Altough he preached and taught love he also preached and taught the law of his people. He said he wasn't here to change it and it wouldn't change......just my .02