Some people's secret is not to be entered into

[Riverwolf]

Then why not just say, I am not complicit in my sons' actions and conspiracies?

Because poetry.

 

[Riverwolf]

Ma'am, with all due respect you are not a scholar whereas the Bible translators

Which ones?

 

[NewChapter]

Because poetry.

He could have said those words in a poetic yet plain way.

I'm at a loss for why do people have to change what the Bible says into "it really means this." If it says it, that's what it means. Their secret is not to be entered into says Jacob to those who have a soul like his (to those with "ESP," etc.)

 

[NewChapter]

Which ones?

All of the translations are done by scholars.

 

[Riverwolf]

He could have said those words in a poetic yet plain way.

You could say that about any given piece of poetry. Fact is, the author didn't, because they didn't want to.

All of the translations are done by scholars.

Many translations contradict each other. Many scholars disagree on the meanings of these details.

Some translations are done by committees. Some are done by invidivuals. Some translations have commentaries.

Hence why I asked, which ones?

Would you trust a Christian translation/commentary of this Jewish text over a Jewish one, for example?

 

[NewChapter]

You could say that about any given piece of poetry. Fact is, the author didn't, because they didn't want to.



Many translations contradict each other. Many scholars disagree on the meanings of these details.

Some translations are done by committees. Some are done by invidivuals. Some translations have commentaries.

Hence why I asked, which ones?

Would you trust a Christian translation/commentary of this Jewish text over a Jewish one, for example?

God (the Holy Spirit) is not a God of confusion, says the Bible. If He said it, He meant it, less He be causing confusion.

He said, don't enter into their secret, so don't enter into their secret.

 

[Riverwolf]

God (the Holy Spirit) is not a God of confusion, says the Bible. If He said it, He meant it, less He be causing confusion.

An irrelevant claim; far as I'm concerned, the authors of these texts, collected in the various Biblical canons, were as human as the rest of us, no more or less divinely guided than the authors of any other text. It is always upon that assumption that I approach these texts, and I've never been given any reason to do otherwise.

He said, don't enter into their secret

Actually, it says this:

בְּסֹדָם אַל תָּבֹא נַפְשִׁי

And here's a translation/commentary from a Jewish scholar, for your consideration:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8244#v=6&showrashi=true

 

[NewChapter]

An irrelevant claim; far as I'm concerned, the authors of these texts, collected in the various Biblical canons, were as human as the rest of us, no more or less divinely guided than the authors of any other text. It is always upon that assumption that I approach these texts, and I've never been given any reason to do otherwise.



Actually, it says this:

בְּסֹדָם אַל תָּבֹא נַפְשִׁי

And here's a translation/commentary from a Jewish scholar, for your consideration:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8244#v=6&showrashi=true

Christian scholars outrank Jewish scholars in my belief because Jews DO NOT believe that Jesus is the Messiah, while Christians do. Christians are more in tune with God than the Jews in my book.

 

[Riverwolf]

Christian scholars outrank Jewish scholars in my belief because Jews DO NOT believe that Jesus is the Messiah, while Christians do. Christians are more in tune with God than the Jews in my book.

I disagree. As someone who's neither Jewish nor Christian (nor do I regard the Bible as terribly relevant to my life outside of a personal liking for some of the stories); basically, an outsider, I trust that Jewish people understand their own language and texts (such as the Torah) better than non-Jewish people.

Meanwhile, the translation you quoted at the beginning is the KJV. That translation, while certainly containing some of the finest Early Modern English poetry, is several centuries old, and used language that was archaic even back then. Many words have changed their meanings from those days, either in direct meaning or in connotation. For instance, while the word "secret" hasn't changed much in denotative meaning since its Latin root, "come into [a person/group's] secret" might have been an idiom that referred to something that was not necessarily "secret". Now, it also might not have been, but without more information, saying one way or the other isn't entirely possible because it's written in a dialect that most people don't speak anymore.

Simply put, as an English translation, it's outdated.

 

[NewChapter]

I disagree. As someone who's neither Jewish nor Christian (nor do I regard the Bible as terribly relevant to my life outside of a personal liking for some of the stories); basically, an outsider, I trust that Jewish people understand their own language and texts (such as the Torah) better than non-Jewish people.

Meanwhile, the translation you quoted at the beginning is the KJV. That translation, while certainly containing some of the finest Early Modern English poetry, is several centuries old, and used language that was archaic even back then. Many words have changed their meanings from those days, either in direct meaning or in connotation. For instance, while the word "secret" hasn't changed much in denotative meaning since its Latin root, "come into [a person/group's] secret" might have been an idiom that referred to something that was not necessarily "secret". Now, it also might not have been, but without more information, saying one way or the other isn't entirely possible because it's written in a dialect that most people don't speak anymore.

Simply put, as an English translation, it's outdated.

Well, to the faithful, it says come not into "their secret."

Was nice talking with you.

Noah

 

[Ingledsva]

Ma'am, with all due respect you are not a scholar whereas the Bible translators are scholars.

Again their views and opinions outrank yours.

I get such a kick out of you folks that decide something is fact - even when you are shown evidence to the contrary.

1. You are capable of looking up the actual Hebrew - online. Note that the word translated "secrets" is first, not in the middle of the sentence - giving YOU a wrong impression.

2. I gave you my translation.

3. I gave you the translation opinions of well known Biblical Scholars!

4. At this point you are just doing the nanner-nanner-ain't-so dance, as all of the evidence points to this logical conclusion, and translation.

*

 

[NewChapter]

I get such a kick out of you folks that decide something is fact - even when you are shown evidence to the contrary.

1. You are capable of looking up the actual Hebrew - online. Note that the word translated "secrets" is first, not in the middle of the sentence - giving YOU a wrong impression.

2. I gave you my translation.

3. I gave you the translation opinions of well known Biblical Scholars!

4. At this point you are just doing the nanner-nanner-ain't-so dance, as all of the evidence points to this logical conclusion, and translation.

*

I might have missed something you said, and I'm really finished with this...if it says, don't enter into their secret, then don't enter into their secret.

 

[Ingledsva]

Emphatically no!

I am not a Hebrew (Jew,) Christian, nor Muslim. I just believe in the God of Abraham.

What???

You have told us you believe in the God of Abraham and Jesus as Messiah.

Christian scholars outrank Jewish scholars in my belief because Jews DO NOT believe that Jesus is the Messiah, while Christians do. Christians are more in tune with God than the Jews in my book.

You also obviously are believing - your idea - of what a Tanakh text says!

That definitely makes you a believer in the religions teaching this, - thus Abrahamic.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I might have missed something you said, and I'm really finished with this...if it says, don't enter into their secret, then don't enter into their secret.

As shown - by me, - and Biblical Scholars, - it does not actually say that, - or mean that.

*

 

[NewChapter]

What???

You have told us you believe in the God of Abraham and Jesus as Messiah...

*

You don't need to be a Jew, Christian, nor Muslim to believe in the God of Abraham...what was the Prophet Noah's religion if you know so much?

 

[Ingledsva]

Well, to the faithful, it says come not into "their secret."

Was nice talking with you.

Noah

Again not so.

I have shown you that well known BIBLICHAL SCHOLARS - understand it, - and translate it, - differently.

*

 

[NewChapter]

Again not so.

I have shown you that well known BIBLICHAL SCHOLARS - understand it, - and translate it, - differently.

*

Sure, but the KJV scholars (which is the Bible that most Christians go by) say "their secret."

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, to the faithful, it says come not into "their secret."

Good for them. Meanwhile, I'll trust the word of actual language scholars over the "faithful."

Sure, but the KJV scholars (which is the Bible that most Christians go by)

Since when? As stated previously, that translation is outdated, by virtue that few people, if any, speak that dialect of English anymore.

When I last looked, the most popular English translation among English speaking (non-Catholic) Christians was the NIV.

 

[Ingledsva]

You don't need to be a Jew, Christian, nor Muslim to believe in the God of Abraham...what was the Prophet Noah's religion if you know so much?

Oh my! Study-study-study.

The God of Abraham is YHVH. That is specific.

Parts of he Christian story of Jesus comes from a misunderstood translation of a Tanakh text - in Isaiah, - and the idea of the Hebrew awaited Messiah.

You cannot believe in the DOGMA (teachings) of these religions without believing in the religions. In other words - you can't believe Jesus is Messiah without agreeing that the New Testament is correct, AND - that Tanakh stories of a coming Messiah are correct. That does not compute.

To say GOD, - is also the God of Abraham is one thing, - but you didn't say that, - and you added in the belief in the idea of Messiah Jesus.

*

 

[NewChapter]

You two are wasting my time...sorry but I don't have time for you no offense meant.