Solomon's big question

[Redemptionsong]

Jesus was a human being, born of Mary and her half brother Joseph, who were both sired by Alexander Helios=Heli, by two different mothers.

The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible, e.g. Psalm 132:5 ("Before I find a place for God, mishkanot (dwelling-places) for the Strong One of Israel.") Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekhinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekhinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable. Some Christian theologians have connected the concept of Shekhinah to the Greek term "Parousia", "presence" "arrival," which is used in the New Testament in a similar way for "Divine Presence".

The Light of man came In the body of a human being, which he had filled with his spirit and lived with us, and we saw his Sh'khinah, (Dwelling place) the Sh'khinah, or Dwelling place, which was the body of the man Jesus that the Father had prepared for his Son, who was to come down mentally and fill with his spirit, that body that his Father had prepared for him, the earthly dwelling of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.

GNB Hebrew 10: 5; For when the anointed one was about to come into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and burnt offerings you did not want, but a body you have prepared for me, etc.”

That body was the man Jesus, of who we read, before he was given divine glory by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, See Acts 3: 13; Hebrew 5: 7-10; “In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was 'A' son of God, (Not God’s Son, or THE son of God, but A son of God, check it out in the Appendix of Strong’s Concordance, or The King James, Amplified, or The Revised Standard translations. all Israelites are sons of God according to God’s word, see Psalms 82: 6; ‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are sons of the Most High.’) HE learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect (through his obedience, and could then be used as the host body through which our God, ‘The Son of Man’ could then revealed himself, through the life, the miracles and the words that would be seen and heard through his obedient servant and earthy image, who did, nor spoke one word on his own authority other than that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour.)

The one who God had prepared for his heavenly anointed one, then became the source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who, on the day Jesus was baptised, descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my Son, (My chosen heir and successor) this day I have begotten thee, or this day I have become your Father as seen in Hebrews 5: 5; "In the same way, Christ did not take upon himself the honour of being a high priest. Instead, God said to him: “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.”

Jesus was born Son of God, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of the.spirit of our Lord God.and savior with which he was filled on the day of his baptism..

I agree that Jesus was a human being. But he was not like other human beings. He was born of a virgin, the result of a miraculous conception. He bore no inherited sin. He lived righteously under the law until thirty, and was baptized with the Holy Spirit at the Jordan. He was tempted in all things, but sinned not.

The Holy Spirit that descended at Jesus' baptism was the Spirit of God without 'measure' [John 3:34]. Jesus was filled with the 'fulness of the Godhead bodily' [Colossians 2:9].

As it says in John 1:14. 'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.'

The 'glory of the LORD' must be a spiritual presence, not something seen in itself (unless in a cloud, pillar etc) but recognized, as in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:18, 'But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass [mirror] the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.'

This tells me that the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit has a steadily glorifying effect on a believer. To pass from glory to glory is a spiritual transition towards the perfection found in Christ.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The temple with the ark was called the place of God's footstool and "a house of prayer for all nations". It was not ever considered God's actual dwelling place by those who were knowledgeable; because God said "heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool" "where is the house you build for me and where is the place of my rest?" So whoever came to the temple it was considered that they came to the footstool of God. No small thing really; but still not His actual dwelling place.

So neither heaven or earth could contain God as the scripture says not even the heavens of the heaven can contain Him. One was His throne and the other His footstool but neither was His house. The only thing able to contain God is what fulfills Him and gives Him rest. The scripture says that God rested on the 7th day. So we know the aim and purpose of all creation is to give God rest. And how does God rest? Everyone rests in their house. So where will God rest? The scripture says He will rest in His love and joy over His people with singing. So then God rests in love because God is love. So what is the true temple of God? It begins with Jesus the "chief cornerstone" and is of course the bride of Christ which is built on Jesus. A "Tried stone, a precious cornerstone a sure foundation". And she will give God rest. She is the new Jerusalem the house of God.

It's about Jesus I think.

Thanks for your input.

It's interesting that you should think that the bride gives God rest. I have always believed that God needed no rest, but that we need to find our rest in God. Isn't the reason that God is said to rest on the seventh day because He ceased from creation?

Interestingly, the word 'shechinah' is Chaldee and means 'resting-place'. So maybe the presence of God is our place of resting. And is our ultimate purpose in life not to abide in Christ?

 

[Terry Sampson]

Jesus was a human being, born of Mary and her half brother Joseph, who were both sired by Alexander Helios=Heli, by two different mothers.

I'm unfamiliar with that belief. What source did you get that from?

 

[The Anointed]

I agree that Jesus was a human being. But he was not like other human beings. He was born of a virgin, the result of a miraculous conception. He bore no inherited sin. He lived righteously under the law until thirty, and was baptized with the Holy Spirit at the Jordan. He was tempted in all things, but sinned not.

The Holy Spirit that descended at Jesus' baptism was the Spirit of God without 'measure' [John 3:34]. Jesus was filled with the 'fulness of the Godhead bodily' [Colossians 2:9].

As it says in John 1:14. 'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.'

The 'glory of the LORD' must be a spiritual presence, not something seen in itself (unless in a cloud, pillar etc) but recognized as in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:18, 'But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass [mirror] the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.'

This tells me that the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit has a steadily glorifying effect on a believer. To pass from glory to glory is a spiritual transition towards the perfection found in Christ.

Anyone who believe that the man Jesus was born of a virgin, has never studied the Holy Scriptures and has been totally deceived by the worthless shepherd that the Lord raised up after he, who had filled the man Jesus with his spirit was paid the majestic price of thirty pieces of silver.

KJV Zechariah 11: 12-17; "And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Who do you believe is the head of the religious organisation who, after the Lord had abandoned his Jewish flock, claimed to be the shepherd of God's people?

 

[Muffled]

Much of the debate that takes place between Unitarians and Trinitarians is an attempt to answer the big question posed by King Solomon.

1 Kings 8:27. 'But will God indeed dwell on earth?'
2 Chronicles 6:18. 'But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth?'

The constructing of the tabernacle, or sanctuary, was Israel's obedient response to God's command in the wilderness. As it says in Exodus 25:8, 'And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.'

The specifications for the sanctuary were precise and detailed, and according to God's pattern. This was true for the tabernacle, and for the later Temple in Jerusalem.

The innermost and most holy place in the Temple, the Holy of Holies, was occupied by the Ark of the Covenant. God's presence was said to be between the cherubim on the mercy seat. Only the High Priest was allowed access, once in the year.

Psalm 99:1. 'The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.'

God's decision to have a Temple made for his dwelling place on earth was bound closely to His covenant with Israel.

Does anyone who believes the scriptures doubt that God (the LORD) dwelt on earth in the Temple? Did God remain constantly amongst his people until the Ark was hidden? Did God take leave of earth after the Ark's disappearance?

And a further question; does Malachi 3:1 refer to the physical temple, or to the Messiah, Jesus?
'Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptist, I believe], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.'

I believe He is everywhere so he was there also.

I believe He remains everywhere and always has been and will be.

I don't believe Malachi was that definite but the actual events bear out that Jesus is Jehovah in the flesh.

 

[Muffled]

God and Lord are not necessary always the same. And it is said in the Bible:

The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, neither is he served by men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things.
Acts 17:24-25

But there is a temple, that is not made by human hands:

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
John 14:10

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21

But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11

Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

Jesus and his disciples are God’s temple. And Jesus is the corner stone of that temple.

Haven't you even read this Scripture: 'The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner. This was from the Lord, It is marvelous in our eyes'?"
Mark 12:10-11

I believe the context reveals a lot. It is the Lord's temple. Kings don't have temples.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Anyone who believe that the man Jesus was born of a virgin, has never studied the Holy Scriptures and has been totally deceived by the worthless shepherd that the Lord raised up after he, who had filled the man Jesus with his spirit was paid the majestic price of thirty pieces of silver.

KJV Zechariah 11: 12-17; "And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Who do you believe is the head of the religious organisation who, after the Lord had abandoned his Jewish flock, claimed to be the shepherd of God's people?

I don't understand your opening paragraph, TA. Who are you referring to? Judas Iscariot?

I have done a bit of study, and I am familiar with the discussions that take place over the word 'almah', in relation to Isaiah 7:14; but I remain unconvinced. It seems to me that Luke 1:27 is accurate, and a confirmation of the intended meaning of Isaiah 7:14.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I believe He is everywhere so he was there also.

I believe He remains everywhere and always has been and will be.

I don't believe Malachi was that definite but the actual events bear out that Jesus is Jehovah in the flesh.

Malachi 3:1 was a real eye-opener to me. I have little doubt that Jesus is the intended 'messenger of the covenant' and that the prophecy is that 'the Lord [Spirit of Christ, Holy Spirit], whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple'.

This cannot be a reference to the third temple in Jerusalem, because there is nothing about Herod's temple that could have pleased God. Jesus called it a 'den of thieves' [Matthew 21:13]. This strongly indicates that the temple referred to in Malachi 3:1 is the body of Jesus. The Lord, in the form of the Holy Spirit, came to the body of Jesus at his baptism.

When the 'glory of the LORD' appeared in the tabernacle, and later in the temple of Solomon, the LORD may not have come to DWELL but He certainly made his presence known! I believe this foreshadows the coming of the Lord to his temple 'made without hands', aka Jesus.

 

[eik]

Does anyone who believes the scriptures doubt that God (the LORD) dwelt on earth in the Temple? Did God remain constantly amongst his people until the Ark was hidden? Did God take leave of earth after the Ark's disappearance?

You have to remember that God himself never came to earth. It was always his angels. Hence the unitarian versus trinitarian debate is inapplicable, as with the OT, we are only concerned with angels, who spoke in the name of YHWH, and to all intents and purposes were YHWH and were called YHWH in scripture.

So no, God did not take "leave of the earth" because he never manifested himself on earth. However there may be a case for saying that angelic manifestations stopped after the ark disappeared, but I am not an expert on Israelite history as to that.

 

[The Anointed]

I don't understand your opening paragraph, TA. Who are you referring to? Judas Iscariot?

I have done a bit of study, and I am familiar with the discussions that take place over the word 'almah', in relation to Isaiah 7:14; but I remain unconvinced. It seems to me that Luke 1:27 is accurate, and a confirmation of the intended meaning of Isaiah 7:14.

Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold the ‘Virgin’ shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.”

This erroneous translation, states that an 'almah' would in the future conceive and bear a son.

Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: “Therefore the Lord, of his own, shall give you a sign; behold the ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ (Almah) is with child, and she shall bear a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

This translation, states that the 'almah' (Young unmarried woman) Is presently with child. Now an 'almah;' which is a young woman of marriageable age can be a virgin, but a young unmarried woman who is pregnant, cannot be a virgin.

“The Greek word parthenos (παρθένος) is ambiguous but the Hebrew term “Almah”[Unmarried Female] is absolute, and is erroneously translated from Isaiah 7: 14, to Greek in Matthew 1:23; as “virgin,” whereas according to Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term “Almah,” carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)”

The word “Virgin” in reference to the mother of Jesus was not introduced until the Latin Bible ‘The Vulgate’ was translated to English, when the Latin word ‘VIRGO’ was translated to Virgin. For just like the early Greek language, the Latin did not have a specific term for ‘VIRGIN’, their word “Virgo” refers to any young woman of marriageable age, whether or not she had previous sexual relations with a man.

In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an “Almah” an “unmarried female” would be with child and bear a son,” into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for ‘virgin,’ the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, correctly used the Greek word ‘Parthenos,’ which carries a basic meaning of ‘girl,’ or unmarried youth, and denotes ‘virgin’ only by implication.

The young 14 year old Mary, was a virgin when the messenger told her that she would become pregnant and bear a son who would be a descendant of King David. But she was no longer a virgin some 3 months later when she returned from her visit with her aunty Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist.

If it was the Lord's intention to convey the message that a virgin would be with child, his prophet would have used the Hebrew term 'bethulah' which refers to a young girl who has never had sex with a man.

To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that “An unmarried woman would be with child.”

Go to “A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature,” by David Jeffery. There you will find written, “Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating ‘Almah’ as ‘Young Woman’ in Isaiah 7: 14.

In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England, all translate Isaiah 7: 14; “A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son.”

Also The Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon reads, Isaiah 7: 14; “A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc.”

As these religious bodies all now accept that Isaiah was not referring to a virgin in that famous passage, they must now accept that the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, who were forced to use the Greek term “Parthenos” in reference to Isaiah’s prophecy, were in no way implying that the pregnant Mary, was still a virgin.

Matthew 1: 22-23; should now read; ‘Now all this happened to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet [Isaiah],’ “An unmarried woman/Almah who is pregnant will bear a son and he will be called immanuel: (“which means God is with us.”)

The point of the prophecy is not in the fact that an unmarried woman would bear a son, but that a child conceived out of wedlock would be seen as the vessel in which the Lord would reveal himself to us, (“God is with us.”)

 

[74x12]

It's interesting that you should think that the bride gives God rest. I have always believed that God needed no rest, but that we need to find our rest in God. Isn't the reason that God is said to rest on the seventh day because He ceased from creation?

We do find our rest in God; but it's God's desire that we enter into His rest. He rested and we will find rest in the same rest of God. That is to say that we will rest with God on the 7th day of creation so long as we "harden not our hearts". (see Hebrews chapters 3-4)

So, we know that the whole purpose of creation was to bring God pleasure. As it is written in Revelation 4:11. Now, we also know that God is love. (1 John 4:8) So then what gives God pleasure? To love. So God has begun to show His love for us through the cross of Jesus Christ and then we'll also see the end of God's love that is eternal rest.

As He will rest in His love for us and we will also rest in His love.


Zeph. 3:17
The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

But we know that the 7th day has not yet come for the world because Jesus said "My Father works hitherto and I work" when they confronted Him about the sabbath day. Because Jesus was doing the work of God on the sabbath day. They did not understand. And Jesus made it clear that God was always working. So the rest of God was yet to come for the world.

God does rest or otherwise the prophecy would not say "And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth." (Isaiah 62:7)

So we are told to not give God rest until He finishes the city of God. God wants us to bother Him with prayers until He finishes the city. (behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.) As this city will truly give God rest and God will also at that time give rest to His people. Because in His rest we'll find rest.

And God is already there in the 7th day resting because God is everywhere at once. There is no time to God. So then God is able to give an earnest of our inheritance. That is we can rest now in Him through the gift of the holy Spirit. But we know and understand that this is a foretaste of our inheritance. Because of the flesh we still suffer on earth. We can have this treasure in "earthen vessels". But then when the full brightness of the day arises; we'll rest completely because we'll be transformed.

Interestingly, the word 'shechinah' is Chaldee and means 'resting-place'. So maybe the presence of God is our place of resting. And is our ultimate purpose in life not to abide in Christ?

I agree.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Much of the debate that takes place between Unitarians and Trinitarians is an attempt to answer the big question posed by King Solomon.

1 Kings 8:27. 'But will God indeed dwell on earth?'
2 Chronicles 6:18. 'But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth?'

The constructing of the tabernacle, or sanctuary, was Israel's obedient response to God's command in the wilderness. As it says in Exodus 25:8, 'And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.'

The specifications for the sanctuary were precise and detailed, and according to God's pattern. This was true for the tabernacle, and for the later Temple in Jerusalem.

The innermost and most holy place in the Temple, the Holy of Holies, was occupied by the Ark of the Covenant. God's presence was said to be between the cherubim on the mercy seat. Only the High Priest was allowed access, once in the year.

Psalm 99:1. 'The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.'

God's decision to have a Temple made for his dwelling place on earth was bound closely to His covenant with Israel.

Does anyone who believes the scriptures doubt that God (the LORD) dwelt on earth in the Temple? Did God remain constantly amongst his people until the Ark was hidden? Did God take leave of earth after the Ark's disappearance?

And a further question; does Malachi 3:1 refer to the physical temple, or to the Messiah, Jesus?
'Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptist, I believe], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.'

The Shekinah of God resting above the Mercy Seat in the Temple is not even close to saying that God is a man. Not even remotely close.

 

[74x12]

The Shekinah of God resting above the Mercy Seat in the Temple is not even close to saying that God is a man. Not even remotely close.

From my studies I find that the shekinah is a cloud. This angel hides the glory of God. As it is written "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies." If you see God then you die so the shekinah is necessary. People therefore have mistaken the cloud as being the glory itself; but it's the covering of the true glory.

 

[The Anointed]

I'm unfamiliar with that belief. What source did you get that from?

Joseph, son of Heli, as recorded in the genealogy of Jesus in Luke 3:23;, is not the same Joseph that was betrothed to Mary before she was pregnant. The genealogy as recorded in Matthew, is not that of Jesus, but that of Joseph the son of Jacob, who was engaged to Mary.

But when he found out that she was pregnant, he thought to break the engagement, but was told in a dream that the child was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, (As was Isaac the son of Sarah and her half brother Abraham, who was born of God's promise according to the working/power of the Holy Spirt) Joseph the son of Jacob then remained with the pregnant Mary , but had no sexual relations with he until after she had given birth to the first of her biological sons, and it was only then that he consummated his union with Mary and she became his wife, and bore his son, who was named Joseph after his father..

Galatians 4: 28; "Yet at that time, the child born according to the flesh (Ishmael) despised and persecuted him (Isaac) who was born according to the promise and the workings/power of the Holy spirit."

Joseph ben Jacob, the step father of Jesus, who is of the house of David, was descended through the cursed genetic line of Jehoiachin, of who it is said in Jeremiah 22: 29-30; O land, land, land! Listen to what the LORD has said: “This man is condemned to lose his children, to be a man who will never succeed. He will have no descendants (NO DESCENDANTS) who will rule in Judah as David's successors. I, the LORD, have spoken.”

No descendant of Jehoiachin could ever inherit the throne of David.

It was Joseph the son of Heli, with whom Mary conceived the child Jesus, as revealed in the gospel of Luke 3: 23; where it is written; "Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, etc, etc, etc.

You will notice that the genetic line of Joseph the son of Heli, is totally different to that of Joseph the son of Jacob, who Married the already Pregnant Mary the mother of Jesus.

The scriptures clearly show that Joseph ben Jacob as recorded in Matthew, who married the already pregnant Mary, and who in Luke 2, was the Joseph who took his heavily pregnant fiancee to Bethlehem, where she gave birth to the first of her sons, was the step-father of Jesus, having no genetic connection to the child, whereas, Joseph ben Heli, who is recorded in Luke, is the biologic Father of Jesus.

This reveals that Luke and Matthew have two different fathers for Jesus, Joseph ben Jacob, Mary's first husband is 'The Step-Father' of Jesus, while Mary's half brother Joseph ben Heli, is the actual biological father of Jesus, who, like Isaac the son of Abraham and his half sister Sarah, who were both sired by Terah, was born of God's promise according to the workings/power of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 3:23; (KJV) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. The (AS WAS SUPPOSED) in brackets, was a later interpolation by those who would have you believe the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth.

In the different translations of the KJV into Arabic, Afrikaan, Zulu, etc and even some of the more modern English translations, such as the Good News Catholic Study Edition Bible, the words (As was supposed) have been retained, but the brackets are removed, thus by, making those words appear to be the declaration of Luke, while the serious biblical student know that they were not written by Luke, but were a later interpolation and a corruption of the Holy Scriptures, by those Christians, who refuse to accept that Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man, born of human parents, who was later CHOSEN by the Lord our saviour ‘The Son of Man,’ as his heir and successor.

If Jesus was not born of the flesh as all human beings are, but was born of a virgin without male semen having been introduced into her uterus, then this would have been the greatest of all miracles, and would have been shouted from the roof tops by all four gospel writers and yet we see that Mark and John ignore the physical birth of Jesus as being totally irrelevant to the story of salvation and begin their account of He who was sent in the name of the Lord, with the Baptism of the man Jesus, when he was born of the spirit that descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my son, Today I have begotten thee.”

This verse; Luke 3:22; which now reads; “Thou art my beloved son in whom I am pleased,” was also changed by those who want you to believe that Jesus was not born of the flesh by two human parents and Later, on the day of his baptism, born of the spirit of our Lord God and saviour, ‘The Son of MAN’ and the MOST HIGH in the creation, when the spirit of our Lord descended upon him in the form of a dove

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”

Jesus was born 'Son of God, not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but by the spirit of the Lord that descended upon him in the form of a dove as he came up out of the baptismal waters, and the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my Son, 'THIS DAY' I have begotten thee, or as said in Hebrews 5:5; "This day I have become your Father.

 

[The Anointed]

From my studies I find that the shekinah is a cloud. This angel hides the glory of God. As it is written "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies." If you see God then you die so the shekinah is necessary. People therefore have mistaken the cloud as being the glory itself; but it's the covering of the true glory.

The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible, e.g. Psalm 132:5 ("Before I find a place for God, mishkanot (dwelling-places) for the Strong One of Israel.") Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekhinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekhinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable. Some Christian theologians have connected the concept of Shekhinah to the Greek term "Parousia", "presence" "arrival," which is used in the New Testament in a similar way for "Divine Presence".

The Light of man came In the body of a human being, which he had filled with his spirit and lived with us, and we saw his Sh'khinah, (Dwelling place) the Sh'khinah, or Dwelling place, which was the body of the man Jesus that the Father had prepared for his Son, who was to come down from his heights in time, and fill with his spirit/mind, that body that his Father had prepared for him, the earthly dwelling of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.

GNB Hebrew 10: 5; For when the anointed one was about to come into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and burnt offerings you did not want, but a body you have prepared for me, etc.”

That body was the man Jesus, of who we read, before he was given divine glory by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, See Acts 3: 13.

Hebrew 5: 7-10; “In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was A son of God, (Not God’s Son, or THE son of God, but A son of God, check it out in the Appendix of Strong’s Concordance, or The King James, Amplified, or The Revised Standard translations. all Israelites are sons of God according to God’s word, see Psalms 82: 6; ‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are sons of the Most High.’) HE learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect (through his obedience, and could then be used as the host body through which our God, ‘The Son of Man’ could then revealed himself, through the life, the miracles and the words that would be seen and heard through his obedient servant and earthy image, who did, nor spoke one word on his own authority other than that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour.)

For the Lord had said to Moses in Deuteronomy 19:18-19; “I will raise up for them a propher like you from among their own brethren: and I will put ‘MY WORDS’ in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not give heed to ‘MY WORDS’ which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish.”

The one who God had prepared for his heavenly anointed one, then became the source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who raised Jesus from death and will raise all those, who are united to him also.

 

[Redemptionsong]

You have to remember that God himself never came to earth. It was always his angels. Hence the unitarian versus trinitarian debate is inapplicable, as with the OT, we are only concerned with angels, who spoke in the name of YHWH, and to all intents and purposes were YHWH and were called YHWH in scripture.

So no, God did not take "leave of the earth" because he never manifested himself on earth. However there may be a case for saying that angelic manifestations stopped after the ark disappeared, but I am not an expert on Israelite history as to that.

Since God is Spirit, it is going to be hard to distinguish the Spirit of God from created spirits unless the name LORD (YHWH) is applied to that Spirit.

I believe the uncreated Spirit of God did appear as the Angel of the Lord in the Hebrew scriptures. The scriptures tell us that the LORD was present on earth, but not in a human body.

Genesis 16. The Angel of the LORD speaks to Hagar. Hagar replies, 'Thou art God, visible to me.' (verse13)
Genesis 18. The LORD appears to Abraham in the plains of Mamre. At the end of the chapter it says, 'And the LORD went his way'.
Genesis 31:11. The Angel of God speaks to Jacob, and says (verse 13) 'I am the God of Bethel'
Exodus 3, the Angel of the LORD appears to Moses 'in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush'. Verse 4 says, 'And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush'.
Judges 6. The Angel of the LORD appears to Gideon. Verse 22, Gideon says to the Angel, 'Alas, O LORD GOD!' to which the LORD replies 'Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.'
And there are more.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The Shekinah of God resting above the Mercy Seat in the Temple is not even close to saying that God is a man. Not even remotely close.

You misunderstand me. I did not say that God was a man. I believe that Jesus was the vessel, the temple, within which the fulness of the godhead dwelt on earth amongst men. Once indwelling, Jesus Christ becomes the mediator between God and men.

The temple is meant to be the place where men have access to God.

I believe Jesus Christ, during his ministry, was fully God and fully man.

 

[eik]

Since God is Spirit, it is going to be hard to distinguish the Spirit of God from created spirits unless the name LORD (YHWH) is applied to that Spirit.

No it is not, because the solution to this is plainly stated in scripture: 1 Kings 8:27 "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!" God cannot ever be restricted or contained by becoming visible.

I believe the uncreated Spirit of God did appear as the Angel of the Lord in the Hebrew scriptures. The scriptures tell us that the LORD was present on earth, but not in a human body.

No. The New Testament makes this very plain: "God is invisible" Colossians 1:15. What is invisible remains invisible This is a categorical and dogmatic truth. Secondly, Gal 3:19, "the law was put into effect through angels." That means everything connected with the law or its being put into effect was done by angels.

Genesis 16. The Angel of the LORD speaks to Hagar. Hagar replies, 'Thou art God, visible to me.' (verse13)
Genesis 18. The LORD appears to Abraham in the plains of Mamre. At the end of the chapter it says, 'And the LORD went his way'.
Genesis 31:11. The Angel of God speaks to Jacob, and says (verse 13) 'I am the God of Bethel'
Exodus 3, the Angel of the LORD appears to Moses 'in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush'. Verse 4 says, 'And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush'.
Judges 6. The Angel of the LORD appears to Gideon. Verse 22, Gideon says to the Angel, 'Alas, O LORD GOD!' to which the LORD replies 'Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.'
And there are more.

And this simply reflects the principle of agency: the angels were agents of God and had the authority to speak in his name, and to be deferred to by the name of their principal.

 

[LightofTruth]

Since God is Spirit, it is going to be hard to distinguish the Spirit of God from created spirits unless the name LORD (YHWH) is applied to that Spirit.

I believe the uncreated Spirit of God did appear as the Angel of the Lord in the Hebrew scriptures. The scriptures tell us that the LORD was present on earth, but not in a human body.

Genesis 16. The Angel of the LORD speaks to Hagar. Hagar replies, 'Thou art God, visible to me.' (verse13)
Genesis 18. The LORD appears to Abraham in the plains of Mamre. At the end of the chapter it says, 'And the LORD went his way'.
Genesis 31:11. The Angel of God speaks to Jacob, and says (verse 13) 'I am the God of Bethel'
Exodus 3, the Angel of the LORD appears to Moses 'in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush'. Verse 4 says, 'And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush'.
Judges 6. The Angel of the LORD appears to Gideon. Verse 22, Gideon says to the Angel, 'Alas, O LORD GOD!' to which the LORD replies 'Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.'
And there are more.

With reference to man, there are two types of bodies. There is the natural body(made from the earth) and the spiritual body(born from above). As Paul explains, "it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body".
The difference between the two bodies is that the natural is mortal while the spiritual is immortal.
The divine angels of God have immortal spiritual bodies. As Jesus says, "Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

"Let US make man in OUR image" refers to God and His angels. But again, the only difference in the image is that one is natural (subject to death) and the other spiritual (can not die any more).

Therefore, when the angel of the LORD appeared, he appeared in the glory of his spiritual immortal body.

The angel was referred to as LORD and God because God (the one God) sent the angel with His (God's) name upon him (the angel).

Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Exo 23:22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
Exo 23:23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

God had put His name (LORD, YHWH) upon the angel so that they ought to recognize him as being God because God instructed them to listen to the angel as if it were God Himself speaking to them.

Men(mortal) could see the face of the angel and live, but they could not see the face of the one true God and live.

And that's why it is said, "no man has seen God at any time" (John 1:18, 1 John 4:12)

 

[Redemptionsong]

Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold the ‘Virgin’ shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.”

This erroneous translation, states that an 'almah' would in the future conceive and bear a son.

Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: “Therefore the Lord, of his own, shall give you a sign; behold the ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ (Almah) is with child, and she shall bear a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

This translation, states that the 'almah' (Young unmarried woman) Is presently with child. Now an 'almah;' which is a young woman of marriageable age can be a virgin, but a young unmarried woman who is pregnant, cannot be a virgin.

“The Greek word parthenos (παρθένος) is ambiguous but the Hebrew term “Almah”[Unmarried Female] is absolute, and is erroneously translated from Isaiah 7: 14, to Greek in Matthew 1:23; as “virgin,” whereas according to Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term “Almah,” carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)”

The word “Virgin” in reference to the mother of Jesus was not introduced until the Latin Bible ‘The Vulgate’ was translated to English, when the Latin word ‘VIRGO’ was translated to Virgin. For just like the early Greek language, the Latin did not have a specific term for ‘VIRGIN’, their word “Virgo” refers to any young woman of marriageable age, whether or not she had previous sexual relations with a man.

In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an “Almah” an “unmarried female” would be with child and bear a son,” into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for ‘virgin,’ the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, correctly used the Greek word ‘Parthenos,’ which carries a basic meaning of ‘girl,’ or unmarried youth, and denotes ‘virgin’ only by implication.

The young 14 year old Mary, was a virgin when the messenger told her that she would become pregnant and bear a son who would be a descendant of King David. But she was no longer a virgin some 3 months later when she returned from her visit with her aunty Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist.

If it was the Lord's intention to convey the message that a virgin would be with child, his prophet would have used the Hebrew term 'bethulah' which refers to a young girl who has never had sex with a man.

To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that “An unmarried woman would be with child.”

Go to “A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature,” by David Jeffery. There you will find written, “Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating ‘Almah’ as ‘Young Woman’ in Isaiah 7: 14.

In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England, all translate Isaiah 7: 14; “A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son.”

Also The Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon reads, Isaiah 7: 14; “A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc.”

As these religious bodies all now accept that Isaiah was not referring to a virgin in that famous passage, they must now accept that the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, who were forced to use the Greek term “Parthenos” in reference to Isaiah’s prophecy, were in no way implying that the pregnant Mary, was still a virgin.

Matthew 1: 22-23; should now read; ‘Now all this happened to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet [Isaiah],’ “An unmarried woman/Almah who is pregnant will bear a son and he will be called immanuel: (“which means God is with us.”)

The point of the prophecy is not in the fact that an unmarried woman would bear a son, but that a child conceived out of wedlock would be seen as the vessel in which the Lord would reveal himself to us, (“God is with us.”)

I'm quite happy to accept that 'almah' means a young woman. The point is that God would not have chosen a young woman who was not a virgin. As you say, she would have been young, and from Joseph's own admission he had never had sex with Mary. Matthew 1:25. 'And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus'.

Here's an interesting explanation given by Alexander Cruden.
'The Hebrew word 'Almah' signifies a person concealed; for young unmarried women lived in retired apartments, where the men did not use to go: And when young women were obliged to go out, they were always vailed, and never appeared uncovered, but before their nearest relations. When Amnon, the son of David, had conceived a violent passion for his sister Tamar, he could not get private converse with her, because she was a virgin, and kept up very close, 2 Samuel 13:2. For she was a virgin, and Amnon thought it hard for him to do anything to her. And in the book of Maccabees, it is said, that when Heliodorus came to Jerusalem, to take away the treasures of the temple, the most recluse virgins came out of their retirements; some appeared in the streets, some at their windows, and others upon the walls, 2 Macc 3:19. And it is well known that young women of the east do not appear in public, but are shut up in their houses and in their mother's apartments.'