sooda
Veteran Member
Not if it was local.. Read Josephus description of the tribulation. It was the worst the world had ever known.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Not if it was local.. Read Josephus description of the tribulation. It was the worst the world had ever known.
Skwim
Veteran Member
sooda
Veteran Member
Their world was pretty small.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Last edited:
sooda
Veteran Member
LOLOL.. The flood lasted four days in the Euphrates River Basin.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Not if " For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."
Gen. 7:4
.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Pretty easy one to answer. MATTHEW 24:34 "This generation" is talking about the last generation before JESUS returns in answer to the question being asked in the context of MATTHEW 24:3 but your too busy trying to find fault you could not see it.
Text analysis; The actual GREEK is;
ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι οὐ μὴ παρέλθῃ ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ἕως ἂν πάντα ταῦτα γένηται
The correct translation is therefore
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place".
This is the way the majority of translations have correctly translated this vers...
PARRALLEL TRANSLATIONS..
New International Version
Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
New Living Translation
I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene until all these things take place.
English Standard Version
Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Berean Study Bible
Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Berean Literal Bible
Truly I say to you that this generation will not have passed away until all these things shall have taken place.
New American Standard Bible
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
New King James Version
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
King James Bible
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Christian Standard Bible
Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place.
Contemporary English Version
I can promise you that some of the people of this generation will still be alive when all this happens.
Good News Translation
Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place.
International Standard Version
I tell all of you with certainty, this generation won't disappear until these things happen.
NET Bible
I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
New Heart English Bible
Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away, until all these things are accomplished.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Amen, I say to you that this generation will not pass away until all these things happen.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
"I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place.
New American Standard 1977
“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
King James 2000 Bible
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
American King James Version
Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
American Standard Version
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Darby Bible Translation
Verily I say to you, This generation will not have passed away until all these things shall have taken place.
English Revised Version
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
Webster's Bible Translation
Verily I say to you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things shall be fulfilled.
Weymouth New Testament
I tell you in solemn truth that the present generation will certainly not pass away without all these things having first taken place.
World English Bible
Most certainly I tell you, this generation will not pass away, until all these things are accomplished.
Young's Literal Translation
Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.
.............
Context is provided in the question being asked verse 3 and answered in the rest of the chapter...
MATTHEW 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Verse 3 indicates that Jesus was projecting forward to the time of his return..... "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?"
Hope this is helpful
Last edited:
I don’t think Matt. 24:24-34 was supposed to happen then. It is something that even Jesus didn’t know when it happens, because he says:
But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36
ecco
Veteran Member
I read it as ALL the structures. ALL these things that you see.
A City is made up of Citi-Zens. Revelation is a tale of two cities, God's Holy City, and the Great City. The great city are the many nations and peoples and tongues that the composite beast rises from. They voted the thing in.
No time to do a study on the Bible's use of "thirds. God does His wrath in thirds. God gave them over, God gave them over, God gave them over. Three strikes they're out. Total reprobate minds.
Revelation mentions 12 times how a "third is destroyed. A third of the trees, a third of the fish and a third of mankind. But TWO thirds are always spared. No total destruction.
King David defeated the Moabites. He made them all lay down on the ground and counted them off by threes, killing every two. Kill, kill ,spare. Kill, kill ,spare. Kill, kill ,spare. Two thirds killed, one third spared. The Moabites went on to live as a people, no total destruction.
But when the great city is split into three parts, not a third is spared. It's total destruction. All three thirds are destroyed.
This happens at the 7th vial. After Armageddon.
Check the context;
Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken
Rev 16:17
¶
Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”
Rev 16:18
And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
Rev 16:19
Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Rev 16:20
Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21
And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.
The great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.
See ALL these things?
That's why i wrote it that way.
"My opinion is...
"My opinion is...
"My opinion is...
Because it's a spooky subject.
It makes it less spooky if i just say that's my read on it.
Like the bartender said at closing time:
"You don't have to go Home,
but you can't stay here.
At some point in time, you really must ask yourself if all the mental gymnastics you have to go through to make sense of and justify the nonsense that ancient men wrote in a bunch of stories is really worth the effort.
I couldn't imagine myself believing in the demons and angels that some ancient, very superstitious (and probably very afraid) men believed in. How sad that anyone today would believe in such silliness.
Shad
Veteran Member
Problem here is the claim can be shifted to altitude.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Might be easy to answer, but giving the wrong answer does you no good. The generation mentioned ↓ came and went, and without the tribulations or Jesus returning.
Obviously, something went radically awry.
Matthew 24:34.
GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people NOW living have all died.
ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people OF THIS TIME are still living.
ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people OF THIS TIME are still living!
WE
I tell you the truth. The people who ARE LIVING, will not die before all these things happen.
CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of THIS GENERATION will still be alive when all this happens.
GW
“I can guarantee this truth: THIS GENERATION will not disappear until all these things take place.
KJV
Verily I say unto you, THIS GENERATION shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
GNT
Remember that all these things will happen before the people NOW living have all died.
ERV
I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people OF THIS TIME are still living.
ICB
I tell you the truth. All these things will happen while the people OF THIS TIME are still living!
WE
I tell you the truth. The people who ARE LIVING, will not die before all these things happen.
CEV
I can promise you that some of the people of THIS GENERATION will still be alive when all this happens.
GW
“I can guarantee this truth: THIS GENERATION will not disappear until all these things take place.
KJV
Verily I say unto you, THIS GENERATION shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Thing is, no other generation is mentioned or even alluded to other than that of those he was speaking to, and to concoct some other generation is petty apologetics. Keep in mind what Jesus said in verse 9 to his disciples during the time of the tribulations.
"9 “Then you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and killed. People all over the world will hate you because you believe in me.
Placing his disciples within the tribulations decidedly establishes the generation Jesus was talking about: the generation existing at that time.
.
.
Last edited:
Not in context it can’t because it’s talking about gathering the raptured from their graves from the four winds. Why would the raptured be buried from the top altitude of the sky to the bottom one? It is clearly talking about the extremities of the compass points (N,S,E,W) with its reference to the four winds, and the ends of the sky in context.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Yea not really my friend, your simply ignoring context and twisting scripture to try to make it say something that it is not. The context is provided in the question being asked verse 3 and answered in the rest of the chapter...
MATTHEW 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
The question is in relation to the 2nd coming and the end of the age.
THIS GENERATION = THE LAST GENERATION BEFORE THE 2nd COMING and the end of the age.
"THIS GENERATION" that will experience all these things written will experience the 2nd coming and the end of all things..
Your kind of ignoring what was posted to you as a help. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.
Text analysis; The actual GREEK says;
ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι οὐ μὴ παρέλθῃ ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ἕως ἂν πάντα ταῦτα γένηται
The correct translation is therefore
"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place".
Nearly all translations are similar to the above (yours though are mistranslations).
THIS GENERATION IS THE LAST BEFORE THE 2nd COMING and the END of all things.
This is the why the majority of translations have correctly translated this verse as shown in the last post to you.
“Truly I say to you, this generation [The last] will not pass away until all these things take place.”
The problem you face with your definition is that “All these things” did not take place during the lifetime of anyone then alive. There has been no second coming and no end of all things. The CONTEXT answers your problem in MATTHEW 24:3. JESUS is answering the question of the disciples. "What will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
JESUS addressed the people then living and now living and the phrase “this generation” has connotation in each of the scripture passages in relation to the question asked in MATTHEW 24:3. For example the nearest context to Matthew 24 (Matthew 23:1-36) Jesus linked “this generation” to those who had gone before and those who came later.
In Acts, “this generation” was something that one could be saved from by repenting in the present *Acts 2:40. If Jesus did want to qualify a statement by limiting it to the lifetime of His hearers He could have said, “some of you standing here will not taste death until. . .,” a phrase that could have been used in Matthew 24:34 without ambiguity if it was His intent to mean the same thing (Matthew used the phrase in 16:28).
Mark 8:38 is also a good example here that everytime the term "this generation" is used it is not meaning the past but always the present tense application to the "now" "Whoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."
The application of Matthew 24 is always to the now and will not be fulfilled until all these things come to pass at which time no man knows the day or the hour but we can know that v33 when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
v34, Truly I say to you, This generation [the generation that sees all these things come to pass] shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled [MATTHEW 24:3 the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age].
35, Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36, But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [MATTHEW 24:3 the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age].
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
Skwim
Veteran Member
Well, "age" is just one interpretation. Others say
ASV
what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
andwhat shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
ERV
And what will happen to prepare us for your coming and the end of time?”
"kind of ignoring"? I'm completely dismissing it as cherry picking, and need driven arrogance.
Ah, so you're a Biblical scholar familiar with ancient Greek and the ancient manuscripts, are you. Why didn't you say so up front?
Care to share some of your published works?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
No? In any case then, taking all else into consideration, such as verse 9 which places the disciples themselves in the midst of the tribulations, clearly puts to lie your claim of some sort of later event.
.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Not really friend. It is you who is cherry picking scripture as you a taking scripture out of context to which it is applied. This was demonstrated to you with the context you left out of your interpretation of MATTHEW 24:34 by adding MATTHEW 24:3-33 back into the conversation which was the question JESUS was addressing from the disciples from MATTHEW 24:4-51 and all the signs that must come to pass for the final generation that will be around at the second coming and the end of the world.
These are Gods Words not mine and you do not believe them. Sadly though you saying you do not agree with the scriptures does not make the scriptures untrue it only means you disagree with God's Word which are not mine but God's so your argument is with God not me. So I will leave this between you and God to work through as we all answer only to God come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.
Thank you for the conversation but I do not see this one going anywhere.
Last edited:
sooda
Veteran Member
Epic mythos is memorable, isn't it?
Aesop's fables were written about the same time as the OT and they too are didactic literature.
sooda
Veteran Member
Throughout scripture a generation is 40 years.. The tribulation ended either with the destruction of the Temple or the fall of Masada... about 40 years after the crucifixion.
New Christians escaped the tribulation because they fled to Pella as Jesus had instructed.
It helps to understand that the tribulation was LOCAL.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Yes a generation is around 40 years. It makes no difference however to what I was sharing from the scriptures earlier. The problem with your application to only the temple is that it is one sign of many that needed to be fulfilled before the second coming and the time of the end for those who where living at the time of the end (final generation). The application is for all these signs having to be fulfilled before the 2nd coming and the end of the world which was the question JESUS was addressing from the disciples in MATTHEW 24:3.
sooda
Veteran Member
It was the end of the world as they knew it. Temple Judaism was finished.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Agreed there is some application to the temple, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD but this was only one sign of many and not the second coming and the end of the world which was the question JESUS was addressing in MATTHEW 24:3. It is only one of the signs to be fulfilled before the second coming and the end of the world. The final generation "this generation" are the ones that know all things are fulfilled *MATTHEW 24:4-51 and the second coming and the end of the world is near, even at the door *MATTHEW 24:33 but no man knows the day or the hour *MATTHEW 24:36.
Last edited: