Smoking Gun, Oh Atheists?

[Unveiled Artist]

Allow me to finish that:
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."
I find that incredibly insensitive and malevolent.

That's not a valid excuse.

I told you. God condems rape (dont seize a woman or you will be stoned) but the condons it (as in the sadaam story).

How is that not an excuse? Its a contradictory book based on morals not historical detail.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I did used to be one (Southern Baptist). That tended to be about the only reason they needed.

Southern baptist. I understand.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Since this thread is about bashing atheists I thought why not, sounds like fun.

Hey is that an omnipresence go. . . . Ohhh pop tarts!

 

[shmogie]

It also tells a rape victim to marry her rapist, and it permits the use of sex slaves (even capturing them), which is still rape.

Really, you found that in the NT ?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Really, you found that in the NT ?

I didn't say I found it in the NT. In fact, if you read my post and what I was replying to, it should be blatantly obvious I never even hinted that I thought it came from the NT.

How is that not an excuse?

I do not accept "do as I say, not as I do" as a valid excuse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Since this thread is about bashing atheists I thought why not, sounds like fun.

Hey is that an omnipresence go. . . . Ohhh pop tarts!

If they could only see my long hair, super baggy Tripp pants covered with chains, no possibility of a soul patch, refusal to wear anything but comfy shoes, and hands that are known for fidgeting too much to be idol. No slouch, and a loathing of Pop Tarts. They might just have me skip over "Atheist" and go straight to Super Devil!
(BTW, is that picture satire or someone's real vision of what an Atheist is?)

 

[David T]

Regardless whether or not there exists an "objective" morality of a thing, the "subjective" moral stance on said thing can be held by as many or all of the members of a given community/society, etc. Atheists included.

I am an atheist. I recognize morals as being subjective ideas. I am in agreement that rape is inherently wrong within our shared, subjective view of reality/morality. I am free to condemn anything I want to that doesn't live up to my standard of subjective morals. If most everyone else does the same, then we have reached a consensus - the closest thing we're going to get to "objective" morality.

Where is the problem?

Well he can't even understand the bible so I think it was more of a charge against those dastardly wind mills rather than actual atheists!!!

 

[shmogie]

I didn't say I found it in the NT. In fact, if you read my post and what I was replying to, it should be blatantly obvious I never even hinted that I thought it came from the NT.

I do not accept "do as I say, not as I do" as a valid excuse.

You used the term Bible, which includes the NT.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Huh

I didn't say I found it in the NT. In fact, if you read my post and what I was replying to, it should be blatantly obvious I never even hinted that I thought it came from the NT.

I do not accept "do as I say, not as I do" as a valid excuse.

.

I didn't say I found it in the NT. In fact, if you read my post and what I was replying to, it should be blatantly obvious I never even hinted that I thought it came from the NT.

I do not accept "do as I say, not as I do" as a valid excuse.

Youre saying god never did anything good only said it but did the opposite?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

If they could only see my long hair, super baggy Tripp pants covered with chains, no possibility of a soul patch, refusal to wear anything but comfy shoes, and hands that are known for fidgeting too much to be idol. No slouch, and a loathing of Pop Tarts. They might just have me skip over "Atheist" and go straight to Super Devil!
(BTW, is that picture satire or someone's real vision of what an Atheist is?)

"BTW, is that picture satire or someone's real vision of what an Atheist is?"

Idk, I just found it online, but I assume it is just a joke.

 

[Simurgh]

So, atheist bashing is a sport. those of you who indulge, remember turnabout is only fair play. so don't complain when an atheist tells you that you are just another bible banger with selective reading skills. what happened with those daughters Lot was only too happy to give away so that his sons could cuddle up to mommy and take a blissful nap?
Misogyny is a biblical and thereby christian trademark. Bible says so ! so don't even argue with me about it. and those of you who want to claim that back in the old days things were different for women and they "knew" their place and kept their mouths shut is just another one of those morons who lacks empathy and basic human decency.
i never needed a bible or other fairy tale to give me pointers on morality. a few proverbs do not make the bible a moral text, rather the opposite. it's a book that reflects the morals of the iron age. and rape was then, as it is today, viewed to be a woman's fault. she was punished, either by being outright killed, or ostracized. prostitution is not the world's oldest profession because it was such a cushy job. rather it was the only venue available for women who had been raped, ostracized, divorced and poor and lived in societies that would not allow women any kind of independence.
Yeah, rape is wrong, illegal, and devastating to its victims regardless of age and gender. nobody needs a bible to tell them that.

those of you who can only see this in the biblical context are really sad examples of what humans can become when they rely on some old fantasies to construct their world view.

 

[shmogie]

So, atheist bashing is a sport. those of you who indulge, remember turnabout is only fair play. so don't complain when an atheist tells you that you are just another bible banger with selective reading skills. what happened with those daughters Lot was only too happy to give away so that his sons could cuddle up to mommy and take a blissful nap?
Misogyny is a biblical and thereby christian trademark. Bible says so ! so don't even argue with me about it. and those of you who want to claim that back in the old days things were different for women and they "knew" their place and kept their mouths shut is just another one of those morons who lacks empathy and basic human decency.
i never needed a bible or other fairy tale to give me pointers on morality. a few proverbs do not make the bible a moral text, rather the opposite. it's a book that reflects the morals of the iron age. and rape was then, as it is today, viewed to be a woman's fault. she was punished, either by being outright killed, or ostracized. prostitution is not the world's oldest profession because it was such a cushy job. rather it was the only venue available for women who had been raped, ostracized, divorced and poor and lived in societies that would not allow women any kind of independence.
Yeah, rape is wrong, illegal, and devastating to its victims regardless of age and gender. nobody needs a bible to tell them that.

those of you who can only see this in the biblical context are really sad examples of what humans can become when they rely on some old fantasies to construct their world view.

Well, I agree with you, but I don't. I have seen the results of rape while a criminal investigator, and in my view the only thing worse is murder, and I believe the one who commits either has forfeited the right to life, and should be executed. On the other hand you are totally wrong, and ignorant, when you call misogyny a Christian trademark. Perhaps you ought to read the NT, you might learn something

 

[SomeRandom]

Anyone who needs a book to tell them that rape is a bad thing should probably not be allowed to roam free in civilized society. That says a lot more about that person than it does about any religious argument to me.

 

[Simurgh]

Well, I agree with you, but I don't. I have seen the results of rape while a criminal investigator, and in my view the only thing worse is murder, and I believe the one who commits either has forfeited the right to life, and should be executed. On the other hand you are totally wrong, and ignorant, when you call misogyny a Christian trademark. Perhaps you ought to read the NT, you might learn something

would you feel better if I said all patriarchal religions, such as christianity? yeah, misogyny is a trademark. and i did read the NT. how about you?, did you read Paul's letters? and then do you want to explain them in a women friendly, non-condescending way? that would call for some serious intellectual gymnastics.
and murder is horrid, but rape kills too, maybe not the body right then and there, but the result is the same . put some time in at a rape crisis hotline, then talk to me how much worse murder is. and being in corrections i actually deal with rapists on a daily basis. they get a slap on the wrist and brag about what they will do when they get out. right, let's all read the NT and learn something. what there is to learn, though, i cannot fathom.

 

[shmogie]

would you feel better if I said all patriarchal religions, such as christianity? yeah, misogyny is a trademark. and i did read the NT. how about you?, did you read Paul's letters? and then do you want to explain them in a women friendly, non-condescending way? that would call for some serious intellectual gymnastics.
and murder is horrid, but rape kills too, maybe not the body right then and there, but the result is the same . put some time in at a rape crisis hotline, then talk to me how much worse murder is. and being in corrections i actually deal with rapists on a daily basis. they get a slap on the wrist and brag about what they will do when they get out. right, let's all read the NT and learn something. what there is to learn, though, i cannot fathom.

Hmmm. if I believe rapists should be executed, so I must consider it serious, no ? You made the statement, the burden is on you to prove it. I have investigated these cases, meaning I gathered all the evidence, interviewed the victim, sometimes their family members, physicians, witnesses, suspects. I am not sure what time in a rape crisis center would do. You made he allegation, the burden of proof is on you, feel free to quote any NT verses you choose.

 

[Simurgh]

What do you mean you don't know what time at a rape crisis center would do? are you familiar with the concept of empathy for the victim? have you ever had to deal with the devastation rape causes the victims even years after the initial assault? nice and neat statements in a file really do not do justice to the horrors of rape.
now what allegation did i make that i need to meet the burden of proof for? that rape is a nightmare that never ends for victims? that the bible and other patriarchal religious texts are misogynistic? that the people who interpret said texts perpetuate said misogyny? why don't you meet the burden of proof that the NT can teach me something and tell me exactly what that drivel ought to teach me? that would really be interesting.
oh, executing rapists does not solve the problem of rape. when we only hold women accountable for their sexuality but do not expect any self-control where men are concerned. and even those living under rocks should have caught on to the fact that rape is primarily about exerting control.

 

[Nakosis]

Conversation is being held on other threads about absolutes and objective rights and wrongs.

I say rape is inherently bad, not "a societal misdeed" but wrong.

Then I watch as atheists (in error) criticize the Bible for not condemning rape, when it most certainly does (as usual atheists point to the Bible and miss).

So you found 1 thing in the Bible that most will agree is moral. I'm sure I could find a few things too. Doesn't mean we now have to accept the whole of the Bible as moral. I can find numerous things I find immoral in the Bible as well.

As an atheist my morality is not dictated by religious views. Mine is predicated on compassion, reason, logic. I don't need folks who claim to speak for God telling me what my morals should be.

 

[Nakosis]

Perhaps God gave faith to bad people, & reserved atheism for the good ones.

I think you might be a little biased there but can't argue against it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Conversation is being held on other threads about absolutes and objective rights and wrongs.

I say rape is inherently bad, not "a societal misdeed" but wrong.

Then I watch as atheists (in error) criticize the Bible for not condemning rape, when it most certainly does (as usual atheists point to the Bible and miss). If two fornicate in the Old Testament, they both receive capital punishment but if a woman cries for help while assaulted, only her rapist is punished . . . by death. Of course both passages regarding consensual sex and rape are collocated in the Bible, but why bother to ask an atheist to actually read more than a verse or two? It's taking for them, poor souls.

Of course, we would say that the atheists who say on one hand "rape isn't inherently bad" but on the other hand, "the Bible is inherently bad for not condemning rape" are behaving both ignorantly (quick, name every American President and Supreme Court Justice on record for condemning rape--are the ones not on the list bad?) and SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY.

How can an atheist behave self-righteously when they believe neither in righteousness nor its opposite, sinfulness?

Stop being self-righteous, oh atheists! (At least until such time as you admit to absolute, objective moral codes.)

Today's rant is concluded.

Way to conflate subjective morality and support of rape. Bravo.
For an encore you can conflate marriage equality with pedophilia, or something.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What in the world does rape have to do with a person's religious conviction or lack of?

What.. This makes someone more or less constrained when it comes down to terrible acts like rape?